Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Xeladriel]

Female Time Lord discussion, all over again.

Sigh.

Void Shobogan. Happy?



Are you sure you don't want to keep it unknown? Can't we keep the Eldritch horror, unknowable? WoW rarely gives satisfying answers to these question.

can i suggest Void Feet?

[Wangming]

So your whole argument is that it's all garbage and in the end, it doesn't even matter?
Couldn't help myself. While I agree with your comments in that every character is more or less one dimensional now as they've been completely robbed of their personalities so they don't offend anyone, that's really not an argument

You know what? Fine, I agree. You get this. I get no counter argument. You absolutely won this. I hope Blizzard listens to your suggestions and kills off one bland cardboard cutoff in service of another bland cardboard cutoff that will remain just as boring. But at least something happened, right?

I still think the best would be to sack the writing team as a whole. Baby, bathwater, the entire fucking bathroom and plumbing. And once they are replaced by people that can give a minimum of two personality traits to everyone, the story can develop characters who have genuine development that makes us feel stuff.

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can i suggest Void Feet?

Mmmm. With sweet and spicy sauce?

[COBRAstriker]

You know what? Fine, I agree. You get this. I get no counter argument. You absolutely won this. I hope Blizzard listens to your suggestions and kills off one bland cardboard cutoff in service of another bland cardboard cutoff that will remain just as boring. But at least something happened, right?

I still think the best would be to sack the writing team as a whole. Baby, bathwater, the entire fucking bathroom and plumbing. And once they are replaced by people that can give a minimum of two personality traits to everyone, the story can develop characters who have genuine development that makes us feel stuff.

Look, I'm not gonna get stuck on this. All I'm saying is that at this point it's a pattern. Locus Walker did bad stuff and had to die, fine. But then Sylvanas also had to die for what she did
It's a pattern and they're redoing and rewriting the same tropes over and over again with a different coat of paint

Writing is supposed to evolve and have variation, but there is pretty much none as of now. This latest case is not the actual problem, it's a symptom of the problem that I and many others are trying to highlight. Females always have incredibly strong plot armors or often times silly justifications are being used to keep them alive while the males are erased from the game at an alarming pace

Again, this is not THE problem, but merely a symptom

Arator is a new character, his mother dying would have been a very good opportunity to give him a strong personality and character development. It could've also given Turalyon some room for much needed development for himself. Same with Vereesa. But alas. We are where we are

Completely agree with the second part of the post. The issue is far beyond Metzen. It starts from basic quest writers. We used to blame Danuser, now he's gone, and the improvements are yet to be seen, if they even are to be expected at this point

[Cheezits]

Wait, when has the fanbase EVER been okay with a character dying to prop up another one? People are still cranky about Varian, Cairne, etc.

Alleria doesn't need to get fridge'd for the men around her to get plot focus.

[Wangming]

Completely agree with the second part of the post. The issue is far beyond Metzen. It starts from basic quest writers. We used to blame Danuser, now he's gone, and the improvements are yet to be seen, if they even are to be expected at this point

Yeah well, as had of the narrative team it should have been Danuser's job to keep things in order and not just be super nice and open minded about any kind of slop that exits the writing room. Now with Metzen in that position, it falls to him.

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Wait, when has the fanbase EVER been okay with a character dying to prop up another one? People are still cranky about Varian, Cairne, etc.

Alleria doesn't need to get fridge'd for the men around her to get plot focus.

Wel, apparently there is a finite ammount of character development, that has to be distributed across characters. But I'm still waiting for the development of Alleria to happen. First step was getting a model that isn't just a palette swap of Sylvanas. Next...dunno, but I hope it happens in Midnight.

[Viridiel]

Alright, I've been digging around and I found the strings. The conversation is real.

[Cheezits]

Alright, I've been digging around and I found the strings. The conversation is real.

Surprised they left it in. Then again, with the dungeon plot happening after the raid, they don't seem to care too much.

I wouldn't be surprised if Alleria is the only Azeroth character this patch because they scrambled to get VA's on board when they poivoted to K'aresh. They had Locus-Walker around... was Ve'nari's VA in the expansion earlier?

[Xeladriel]

Surprised they left it in. Then again, with the dungeon plot happening after the raid, they don't seem to care too much.

I wouldn't be surprised if Alleria is the only Azeroth character this patch because they scrambled to get VA's on board when they poivoted to K'aresh. They had Locus-Walker around... was Ve'nari's VA in the expansion earlier?

ve'nari appears in 11.1.7, at the end of lorewalking about ethereals

[Cheezits]

ve'nari appears in 11.1.7, at the end of lorewalking about ethereals

Yeah, but that questline was definitely put in way after they decided on K'aresh.

I think it's worth mentioning that this conversation probably happens after the raid, but not the dungeon, so we have more story we don't know. Plus the next few patches are very important per the devs. I'm going to guess we stick around on K'aresh and prep the Ethereals to join us.

[COBRAstriker]

Yeah well, as had of the narrative team it should have been Danuser's job to keep things in order and not just be super nice and open minded about any kind of slop that exits the writing room. Now with Metzen in that position, it falls to him.

I seriously doubt that Metzen has the time or will frankly to check every single line of dialogue or quest text that gets into the game
There's also a very real chance that Metzen himself has changed, and that he now prefers this kind of World of... Craft, I guess

If the writers need this kind of micromanaging, even after years and years of feedback, then they're simply bad at their job or refuse to listen, and Blizzy needs to either go back to vanilla WoW questing style and forget about 5D chess stories since they are incapable of offering safisfying conclusions, or fire everyone and invest in proven writers with talent that understand Warcraft

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Surprised they left it in. Then again, with the dungeon plot happening after the raid, they don't seem to care too much.

I wouldn't be surprised if Alleria is the only Azeroth character this patch because they scrambled to get VA's on board when they poivoted to K'aresh. They had Locus-Walker around... was Ve'nari's VA in the expansion earlier?

Ve'nari had no new developments in TWW, she just shows up in the ethereal lorewalking questline

[Jolly Roger]

Spoiler https://www.reddit.com/r/warcraftlor...allerias_oath/ datamined conversation between Alleria & Ve'nari.

oh no the guy that was manipulating alleria and getting mad others were got betrayed by the person who already betrayed him and showed she has no problem betraying people

dude was legit the obi wan of alleria's story

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Yeah, but that questline was definitely put in way after they decided on K'aresh.

I think it's worth mentioning that this conversation probably happens after the raid, but not the dungeon, so we have more story we don't know. Plus the next few patches are very important per the devs. I'm going to guess we stick around on K'aresh and prep the Ethereals to join us.

the story ends in the dungeon so its possible but more likely it is the raid ending

either way the questline was likely placed in early in development for lorewalking as they have said they want to have more story in the game instead of outside media
even some devs were annoyed about that at blizzcon

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Wait, when has the fanbase EVER been okay with a character dying to prop up another one? People are still cranky about Varian, Cairne, etc.

Alleria doesn't need to get fridge'd for the men around her to get plot focus.

shes going to though
this is literally just tyrande in SL all over again

[Wangming]

I seriously doubt that Metzen has the time or will frankly to check every single line of dialogue or quest text that gets into the game
There's also a very real chance that Metzen himself has changed, and that he now prefers this kind of World of... Craft, I guess

If the writers need this kind of micromanaging, even after years and years of feedback, then they're simply bad at their job or refuse to listen, and Blizzy needs to either go back to vanilla WoW questing style and forget about 5D chess stories since they are incapable of offering safisfying conclusions, or fire everyone and invest in proven writers with talent that understand Warcraft

Not saying i don't agree with you. I'm just saying that ideally the head of the story team is responsibility to hold a quality standard and make sure the plot threads serve the plot direction. So if something does not, he really can and should be held responsible. We have to assume that whatever happens, he likes it. And yes, he is not the same person he was back then.

[Joshuaj]

I think this does open up an interesting plot thread- WHY does Xal want to become a Void Lord?

To claim Azeroth's Worldsoul. Ffs, she kinda hints at it in 11.2, with her mentioning where Dimensius would go next after finishing off K'aresh, and saying summ like "That's where I'd go if I was a Void Lord..."

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void lord or....void lady?

Void Lord, similar to how Eonar, the Archon, and the Winter Queen are considered lords of their respective powers, despite being female.

[Cheezits]

In Locus-Walker's position, it wouldn't make sense for the herald of Dimensius, who wants him dead and says the void just eats everything, would want to REPLACE him instead of just being free.

We don't know exactly why Xal wants to be the All Devouring as from our perspective and her characterization it doesn't make sense.

[Foolicious]

I think this does open up an interesting plot thread- WHY does Xal want to become a Void Lord?

I mean she has told us over and over again that thats just how the void seems to work.
"Only one (old god) would remain to consume the world."
"Learn the true lesson of the void. Only the strongest survive"
"The void does not transform, it consumes"

She wants to get to the top of the foodchain.

Also second possibility (and basically a continuation of the first) is that she is out for the true seat of power like azshara, for which she needs a lot of power to claim it.

And really wild speculation is that xal deliberately chose to serve the void because she realized that she has a chance to climb the ranks eventually. Serving the titans or the light for example wouldn't offer that opportunity (as far as we know)

[Cheezits]

She wants to get to the top of the foodchain.

Yeah, but why?

We know Azshara's motivation- huge ego and obsessed with herself and ruling forever. But what is Xal's reason to want to eat everything, Nihilism? Universe reset ala Zovaal? She needs a motivation that makes her not just an Azshara copy.

[COBRAstriker]

Not saying i don't agree with you. I'm just saying that ideally the head of the story team is responsibility to hold a quality standard and make sure the plot threads serve the plot direction. So if something does not, he really can and should be held responsible. We have to assume that whatever happens, he likes it. And yes, he is not the same person he was back then.

Well, I mean, we dogged on Danuser until he was fired, and there have been no improvements. They're still in the habit of destroying old, established characters and delivering bland and bad stories. On the plus side, we don't get egregious retcons anymore, I guess

I think that people like Metzen are responsible for setting up the general direction of the story, the macro themes, but have little to no involvement in the actual in game writing and dialogue. In WoWs case, having a direction doesn't seem to help much, because even if that direction is followed up to its destination, it doesn't mean much if along the way they bump into every car and run over a few pedestrians as well

The WSS does seem more and more like an actual marketing stunt and not something they actually intend to deliver, and they used Metzen's charisma and passion at Blizzcon, coupled with heavy nostalgiabaiting (QT and Northrend all of a sudden) to make folks buy into it, right after DF, which is another expansion that fell flat on its face story wise
Funnily enough, 2023 Blizzcon Metzen did seem to resemble that old, energetic and passionate Metzen we all know, but in game it's nowhere to be seen

Anyway, I am now very weary of Midnight and WoW storytelling as a whole to be honest, and it would be wise to wait for Alpha datamining before making a purchase, as sad as that may sound. What a far cry from ye olde days when a new Blizzard release would be an instant buy
Shame because it feels like these lackluster stories and cinematics are really the only things holding the game back, and I wish someone over there in Irvine would wake up and make sweeping changes, just as we're seeing on the gameplay side

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Yeah, but why?

We know Azshara's motivation- huge ego and obsessed with herself and ruling forever. But what is Xal's reason to want to eat everything, Nihilism? Universe reset ala Zovaal? She needs a motivation that makes her not just an Azshara copy.

Fulfill what other void lords failed to do so far, destroy Azeroth
Or should I say, consume

[Nymrohd]

I don't get why y'all trying to give Xal character depth that she doesn't have.

Also why does an alien creature need a human motivation? For creatures of the Void, doing as the Void should be automatic.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

I don't get why y'all trying to give Xal character depth that she doesn't have.

Also why does an alien creature need a human motivation? For creatures of the Void, doing as the Void should be automatic.

The new patch seems to already be framing her as something of a rogue agent, which precludes total submission to the impulses and appetites of the Void. While she might be pursuing Void-flavored ends, having her own means of accomplishing those and vision for what those ends entail seems plausible, especially given the Void is largely characterized by not being a gestalt but an egoistic faction of individualists pursuing their goals differently and at times fighting among themselves.

[Khaza-R]

Yeah, but why?

We know Azshara's motivation- huge ego and obsessed with herself and ruling forever. But what is Xal's reason to want to eat everything, Nihilism? Universe reset ala Zovaal? She needs a motivation that makes her not just an Azshara copy.

She largely states this is just the nature of the void. The same way the Sith covet power thus always end betraying their master. It seems in-line with her character to me. And this is how Old Gods always operated. Given the chance they would devour each other too.

Granted its possible she might have more complex motivations based on her background. Personally I think Xal'atath was once a being of Light who became Void. She seems a bit like a copy of Lilith to me. Someone who sees themselves as a liberator but actually only brings ruin and destruction.