Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Makorus]

This Sargeras glazing is absurd because he didn't really do anything that warranted his status either.
He simply had more time to gain more unearned, offscreen victories, but that's about it.

Arguably, we have more about Dimensius in game than we do for Sargeras pre-Legion.

But hey, we all know: Tell, don't show.

And don't get me wrong, I don't really care. It's just a bit weird to have such a chip on your shoulder because purple Sargeras is as characterless and unearned as the original.

[Thomir]

I wish people who understood nothing about the lore were not allowed to post.

[Lady Atia]

Thats entirely besides my point.

Its not about him having a quirky or eccentric personality. Sargeras didnt either. Thats what characters like Gul'dan and Xal are for - to interact with the player characters, while the cosmic big guys are on their way. But what Sargeras had was impact and an active role. Sargeras did things to warrant his status as a main villain.

Dimensius (and the VLs overall) did nothing. They were retconned into being the OGs creators and new main villains of the franchise, then they were left doing nothing in the story for 9 years, and now they are presented as a throw-away set up boss.

A great example for this is Sauron. He didnt have any sort of eccentric personality either, neither in the books nor in the movies. The role of interacting with the protagonists was Sarumans. But Sauron was build up since the beginning as the overarching main villain of the story, and thats exactly what the story culminated in. Sauron, not Saruman.

The equivalent to WoW here would be if the second LotR book culminated in Saurons defeat, along with the reveal that Saruman is now actually the new main villain for the third book - only fo the third book to reveal halfway through that Saruman got defeated by Gollum, and that hes now the main villain for the big culmination.

Actually, in the books, Saruman is the last villain they face during the Scouring of the Shire.

[KayserB]

Has there been any indication of a legendary yet? I'm still holding out for a repaired Atiesh, as a mage main.

Also my friend at Blizzard survived the layoffs, thank god.

Saw a post about it in reddit but most people there were against the idea of having a legendary let alone Atiesh. DF legendaries left people with PTSD going by that Reddit post.

Seems there is nothing pointing to it in the datamining.

[Xelyth]

Where was that line even supposed to be? I thought it was odd that I didn't come across it in the database or while questing on the PTR. I guess to had to have been quest text because no text or voice lines have been removed. I wanted to see what it actually said.

I found a screen shot of the text. "Were you surprised to hear that Dimensius destroyed my own world as well? We are not as different as you might think."

[rainhard]

A great example for this is Sauron. He didnt have any sort of eccentric personality either, neither in the books nor in the movies. The role of interacting with the protagonists was Sarumans. But Sauron was build up since the beginning as the overarching main villain of the story, and thats exactly what the story culminated in. Sauron, not Saruman.

The equivalent to WoW here would be if the second LotR book culminated in Saurons defeat, along with the reveal that Saruman is now actually the new main villain for the third book - only fo the third book to reveal halfway through that Saruman got defeated by Gollum, and that hes now the main villain for the big culmination.

A good way to see it is as if we fought the necromancer from the hobbit not sauron himself, as sauron is formless still and cannot fully materialise to the world, similar to Dimensius who is probably at a fraction of his power even then. From my understanding void lords forms in the mortal plane are like the Archons from starcraft 2s legacy of the void cinematic, they explode into existance and rapidly decompose until there is little left...
What i am saying is the power level is not over the top and the interaction is not the final confrontation if we base it off this information and the assumpion he won't die or something there.

[Thomir]

Saw a post about it in reddit but most people there were against the idea of having a legendary let alone Atiesh. DF legendaries left people with PTSD going by that Reddit post.

Seems there is nothing pointing to it in the datamining.

You can't trust dataminers these days. They know more than they let on. The parrot, especially.

[Lady Atia]

Saw a post about it in reddit but most people there were against the idea of having a legendary let alone Atiesh. DF legendaries left people with PTSD going by that Reddit post.

Seems there is nothing pointing to it in the datamining.

Which is super sad, DF's issue was the annoying crafting part and that classes felt dogshit without the leggies (which is a problem .... your class should feel good without it, and if you get it you should be a bit op as a reward instead of balancing everything around having it ....).

[Xilurm]

I hope they change crafting again, it used to be so chill.

[KayserB]

You can't trust dataminers these days. They know more than they let on. The parrot, especially.

You think the parrot is holding on information?

Can't see wowhead writers passing on this if they ever find something while datamining. Too much bait titles and click-wh*ring.
I think there is nothing more than Reshii wraps unfortunately.

[Houle]

Replacements of Sargeras? Lmaoooo?????

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When was this the case? Are you saying this cause Sargeras ain't the big bad anymore?

Perhaps "replacement" was not the greatest phrasing.

But yeah, they were introduced as the new overarching anatgonists of the franchise, the spot that Sargeras had up until that point (arguably semi-contested by the OGs maybe).

That means they took his place in the overall narrative structure.

This Sargeras glazing is absurd because he didn't really do anything that warranted his status either.
He simply had more time to gain more unearned, offscreen victories, but that's about it.

Arguably, we have more about Dimensius in game than we do for Sargeras pre-Legion.

But hey, we all know: Tell, don't show.

And don't get me wrong, I don't really care. It's just a bit weird to have such a chip on your shoulder because purple Sargeras is as characterless and unearned as the original.

How exactly did he not earn his place lol. He was woven into the larger lore and world building at pretty much a base level. First mentioned in WC2. Then established and given a backstory as the big bad and creator of the BL in WC3. And, in the form of the eye, also presented accordingly. A mere artifact he left was enough to split a continent asunder.

And from that point on, he has regularly appeared in the story. And in Legion alone, he had more ingame presence and "did more" than Dimensius in TWW and TBC combined.

Comparing that at all to the way the VLs have been retconned into the story, 15 years after it was already set and established, is laughable.

And if you want "Tell, dont show" then look no further than Dimensius. The character who was shown exactly 2 times: First as a green questing mob who was introduced and defeated in the same quest, and now as a boss, who again shows up and is immediatly defeated in the same fight. Those are the 2 things weve seen Dimensius do. Everything besides that about him was only told.

Actually, in the books, Saruman is the last villain they face during the Scouring of the Shire.

Yeah, as the encore. As the personal obstacle that the hobbits alone were able to take care of, bc he didnt quit after being all but completely defeated already before. The big main conflict of the story was resolved with Sauron.

[Nymrohd]

Btw anyone else disappointed we did not get any new crafting recipes for gear after launch? Undermine should have been engineering heaven and K'aresh has new materials but the only new recipes seem to be consumables.

[Wangming]

And from that point on, he has regularly appeared in the story. And in Legion alone, he had more ingame presense and "did more" than Dimensius in TWW and TBC combined.

I mean, the wound he made on Azeroth ad the Azerite that got spilled out was the entire reason BfA happened.
Varimathras did the whole Wrathgate and BoU under his oderders and he was the force behind the Legion invasion in..well Legion.

If I understand correctly, Dimensius showing up in the plot at all in TWW is an accident. While we don't know who the big bad is, if there is a hidden one, the Heavy is Xal'atath. And her plans didn't involve the Etherals stealing the Dark Heart from Gallywix. Hell, her initial plan didn't involve Gallywix at all. She is just adapting to changed circumstances.

To go back to the LotR analogy, this second half of TWW and Dimensius is like if halway into Fellowship of the Ring, Boromir managed to steal the Ring from Frodo and bring it to Denethor and the Fellowship decided to team up with the Nazgul to get it back, only to act surprised when at the end the Witch King decided to kill Gandalf and take the Ring back to Mordor

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Btw anyone else disappointed we did not get any new crafting recipes for gear after launch? Undermine should have been engineering heaven and K'aresh has new materials but the only new recipes seem to be consumables.

Professions remain as one of the weakest parts of WoW both in relevance and mechanics.
Hopefully Housing will elevate the situation somwhat, but besides the MoP cooking in Halfhill it has been lukewarm so far.
For me FFXIV fishing is still the absolite benchmark for professions. Especially fishing.

[COBRAstriker]

Professions remain as one of the weakest parts of WoW both in relevance and mechanics.
Hopefully Housing will elevate the situation somwhat, but besides the MoP cooking in Halfhill it has been lukewarm so far.
For me FFXIV fishing is still the absolite benchmark for professions. Especially fishing.

Play some other games outside of MMOs man, it's getting embarrassing. Some mods for Minecraft completely demolish MMO professions and crafting
WoW professions are good enough for their intended purpose. I would say that it's even better now as crafted gear remains relevant throughout the entire expansion

[Hitei]

You think the parrot is holding on information?

Can't see wowhead writers passing on this if they ever find something while datamining. Too much bait titles and click-wh*ring.
I think there is nothing more than Reshii wraps unfortunately.

I think it's highly mischaracterizing to claim Marlamin "hides" stuff. When he stopped just posting things as "a dataminer" he openly did so in part because he felt like datamined spoiling (of plot stuff in particular) was doing more harm than good. So now he mostly just focuses on talking about interesting tech and systems things he finds rather than posting "Xal does X" when he happens to come across it.

[Ochinko]

Like people have said, professions are super weak in WoW, have been for a long time now. Really feels like they dont have a proper idea on what to do with them.

We did get the fun enchanting item to change into a different race but it suffers from the WoW Toy curse by having a shorter duration than cooldown.

Engineering got shafted especially hard (from what I've seen) in TWW with half of its "fun" parts being recycled DF content.

[Al Gorefiend]

Everyone collectively in their brains all assumed Sargeras will and was always meant to be the final boss of Warcraft. This was never stated by Blizzard.

Personally I always saw him as WoWs final boss, that's why they saved him from a verifiable death in Legion. He's a character they never want to use up because of that psychological hold he has on players that he is meant to be at the very end of the game.

[Marlamin]

I think it's highly mischaracterizing to claim Marlamin "hides" stuff. When he stopped just posting things as "a dataminer" he openly did so in part because he felt like datamined spoiling (of plot stuff in particular) was doing more harm than good. So now he mostly just focuses on talking about interesting tech and systems things he finds rather than posting "Xal does X" when he happens to come across it.

Yup, pretty much. For example, with encrypted stuff I look at what the key encrypts in terms of "this is a mount" or "5 campaign quests and a set" but not really what those things are compared to e.g. SL/DF where I'd be actively looking into that kind of stuff (and sometimes successfully so). Or the recent Alleria VO leak, I noticed those files were there during my initial filenaming pass but didn't bother naming them or listening to the entire conversation. Outside of clickbait/farming views which myself nor MMO-C isn't really in the business of actively doing, there is very little to be gained posting spoilers.

[Nymrohd]

Everyone collectively in their brains all assumed Sargeras will and was always meant to be the final boss of Warcraft. This was never stated by Blizzard.

Personally I always saw him as WoWs final boss, that's why they saved him from a verifiable death in Legion. He's a character they never want to use up because of that psychological hold he has on players that he is meant to be at the very end of the game.

I mean he is Satan. People expect Satan to be the final boss.

[Dracullus]

Sargeras was probably meant to be final boss of WoW for many, many years. Then whole "we are too successful to ever shut this down" thing happened.

Imo he should be final boss of Saga. Of course, he would fit better in Legion (and Legion in general deserved more story content for 7.2 and 7.3 or maybe even Argus expac), but what's done is done.