Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Timester]

Yeah but we aren't going to fight the filler enemies in the .0 patch.

We fought kobolds in 11.0.

That's why I'm focused on the story plot and not the enemies. What and where the story can guides up. The enemies are always an afterthought.

[13last]

Real talk, if we permanently off her in TLL I will be kinda sad. She is a lot of fun. And finally a charismatic new villain.

But even if she dies in Midnight, she had a pretty good run. I mean who besides Garrosh and AU Gul'Dan can claim to be the antagonist of to expansions in a row, without it feeling too much?

Reading AU Gul'dan just made me so nostalgic. The way Illidan kills him and just holds his skull in Nighthold was so good, brought back so many memories. I really liked Gul'dans flashbacks playing Warcraft 3 back in the day, he was such an iconic villain.

I'm really curious what AU Grom is doing back in AU draenor. We should find out in a few years lol.

[Timester]

I'm really curious what AU Grom is doing back in AU draenor. We should find out in a few years lol.

AU Yrel killed AU Grom.

[Houle]

Do you have an example yourself or are you like every politician of an opposition party?

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Real talk, if we permanently off her in TLL I will be kinda sad. She is a lot of fun. And finally a charismatic new villain.

But even if she dies in Midnight, she had a pretty good run. I mean who besides Garrosh and AU Gul'Dan can claim to be the antagonist of to expansions in a row, without it feeling too much?

Eh, if they drag her on and on and on, chances are itll become annoying eventually. Shes been around since 2015, and is now all but confirmed to be the main villain for 2 xpacs back to back.

Better to culminate her storyline while people still like the character, rather than turning her into Team Rocket, with people just rolling their eyes whenever she does the same thing again and again.

[Wangming]

Eh, if they drag her on and on and on, chances are itll become annoying eventually. Shes been around since 2015, and is now all but confirmed to be the main villain for 2 xpacs back to back.

Better to culminate her storyline while people still like the character, rather than turning her into Team Rocket, with people just rolling their eyes whenever she does the same thing again and again.

While I do agree, it is possible to just lock away and shelf antagonists (Sargeras, Azshara, Denathrius...etc) no need to permanently, finally, irreversibly kill them off.
But if it happens, she had a good run.

[Bwgmon]

I'm really curious what AU Grom is doing back in AU draenor. We should find out in a few years lol.

Given the situation we left him in, he's either dead or undergoing forceful conversion therapy since Yrel was bringing an army down on him and we teleported his army away. That's assuming the AU bubble still exists, IIRC it was in the process of unravelling during the AR questline.

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

Does anyone know why some people suddenly say that Titans are supposed to be nice and don't like the way things are going, when... they never have been? Do they even remember Ulduar and Algalon? And all the rest? I get the impression that this is just a false pretext invented out of a poor knowledge of the lore for the sake of grumbling.

I have seen worlds bathed in the Makers' flames, their denizens fading without so much as a whimper. Entire planetary systems born and razed in the time that it takes your mortal hearts to beat once. Yet all throughout, my own heart devoid of emotion... of empathy.
I. Have. Felt. Nothing. A million-million lives wasted. Had they all held within them your tenacity? Had they all loved life as you do?

—Algalon, upon his defeat

They were never benevolent; they always had their own plans.

[13last]

AU Yrel killed AU Grom.

Unless it happened offscreen there's no way he's dead, more likely he's converted and will hopefully be part of the storyline, one can hope anyway.

Given the situation we left him in, he's either dead or undergoing forceful conversion therapy since Yrel was bringing an army down on him and we teleported his army away. That's assuming the AU bubble still exists, IIRC it was in the process of unravelling during the AR questline.

I agree with the forceful conversation to Light, I can totally see it, it would be wasteful of Blizzard to kill him offscreen I feel. Honestly I think we'll see AU draenor again, I am a big believer of us facing the light and Yrel in the next saga.

Quick edit: isn't his son Garrosh with us in Azeroth? He is young but who knows if Blizzard will do something with him.

[Joshuaj]

There is no way in which we deal with Light within the WSS. Maybe some skirmishes, but nothing major.

We dealt with Disorder in Legion.

We dealt with faction conflict and the Old Gods in BfA.

We dealt with Death in Shadowlands.

We will deal with Shadow in Midnight.

We will deal with Order in TLT.

Therefore, of the Cosmic Forces, only Light and Life will remain after the WSS, and clearly Light is the one that they are building for the most immediate future.

Of course, we have dealt with all these forces only temporalily. There has never been a faction or group totally erradicated in WoW. They always come back or evolve into some new threat.

Life and Light seem to be the main forces we'll deal with after the Worldsoul Saga, and even then, I think their influence will be lowered a small bit.

The Light's main conflict with the Shadow on Azeroth will be dealt with in Midnight, and I think we'll see a LOT of stuff regarding Life in both Midnight and TLT.

At best, they'll either be relegated to smaller stories, or they'll be relegated to things linked to the denizens of Azeroth (Like Avaloren, and whatnot).

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And regarding Disorder? Idk. I think we'll have at least 1 more expac dealing with it, albeit I doubt it'll take place on Azeroth.

[Timester]

I agree with the forceful conversation to Light, I can totally see it, it would be wasteful of Blizzard to kill him offscreen I feel. Honestly I think we'll see AU draenor again, I am a big believer of us facing the light and Yrel in the next saga.

I honestly doubt that we will ever see AU Draenor considering how fast Blizzard cut their plans with it originally.

[Makorus]

We fought kobolds in 11.0.

That's why I'm focused on the story plot and not the enemies. What and where the story can guides up. The enemies are always an afterthought.

Yeah, and the first raid and the capstone of the Launch story was Nerubar Palace. The first of three raids of Midnight is not going to be Scarlet Crusade and a Two-Boss Troll Raid LMAO.

[Bwgmon]

Quick edit: isn't his son Garrosh with us in Azeroth? He is young but who knows if Blizzard will do something with him.

AU Grom's son (technically not Garrosh since his mother isn't the same) was a willing convert to Yrel's cause. The one we brought with us was Geya'rah, who is AU Durotan's daughter.

[Timester]

Yeah, and the first raid and the capstone of the Launch story was Nerubar Palace. The first of three raids of Midnight is not going to be Scarlet Crusade and a Two-Boss Troll Raid LMAO.

Oh, no doubt. And I'm partly certain that the first raid is a Void-related raid and 12.2 raid is a Titan-related raid (leading the TLT), mainly because Metzen already talked about the story. The enemies are secondary.

[13last]

AU Grom's son (technically not Garrosh since his mother isn't the same) was a willing convert to Yrel's cause. The one we brought with us was Geya'rah, who is AU Durotan's daughter.

My memory def failed me, thanks for clarifying it.

I honestly doubt that we will ever see AU Draenor considering how fast Blizzard cut their plans with it originally.

You honestly don't think Yrel will be involved in any capacity? If Blizzard is planning 20 more years of warcraft that leaves room for a good amount of Sagas, sure some could be totally new (other side of Azeroth) but I can totally see us dealing with Yrel without going to AU Draenor. Plus the Mag'har recruitment made it clear she's gone full fanatic, could be nothing but it's there to be used I feel.

[Wangming]

My memory def failed me, thanks for clarifying it.

I think it was explicitly told in the pre WoD short story that Garrosh and Kairoz were looking for a perfect timeline and Garrosh was pissed when he found out that what Kairoz picked as a perfect timeline was one where he didn't exist.

[Ereb]

Midnight12 why 12?

Are you the new Scaleface?

Because midnight is patch 12 of WoW.

[Xilurm]

12.0 - Quel'Danas/Silvermoon raid
12.1 - Amani Troll raid with a faction that doesn't want to fight us and helps us instead.
12.2 - Not sure what this could be but there's a very high chance it's a patch that leads us into TLT just like K'Aresh leads us to Midnight and is void themed.

[13last]

I think it was explicitly told in the pre WoD short story that Garrosh and Kairoz were looking for a perfect timeline and Garrosh was pissed when he found out that what Kairoz picked as a perfect timeline was one where he didn't exist.

Aha I remember Kairoz, Garrosh ended up betraying him and killing him, wasn't his plan to unite the horde and create an army to fight the Legion? At least from what I remember that's why he freed Garrosh initially. I still find it hilarious that WoW dabbled with alternate universes back then.

[Enrif]

Not a chance.

Or rather, I hope there is no chance for that. Bad writing makes anything possible. But having a proper final confrontation with Xal'atath is good enough for Midnight.
IF she is killed in Midnight and not TLL.
Honestly it would be cool to fight her multiple times across Midnight as we grow stronger.

I personally don't buy it, the Light is as big as void, I think we'll get a new saga for Light.

Xal'atath will def be the big threat for Midnight and I'm willing to bet she corrupts the sunwell and we lose in Midnight, TLT is the Titans coming back to purge us and we conclude the storyline with Titans and Void (at least big cosmic scale storyline).

I could be wrong but Blizzard is setting up Xal'atath as a major villian and I don't see her dying in Midnight.

Since K'aresh and Dimensius are not in TWW, everything is open to what could happen in midnight.

For all we know, Light and Life might be the forces that we don't have to beat, as they are already beaten by all the other forces and only Azeroth has Life and Light fighting against all the other forces. The army of light fought a loosing battle against the legion until we showed up, life was suppressed multiple times by order (Aman'thul, but also Aggrammar who created the breakers on draenor to fight of life), and we seem to want to align with life (Eonar,Elune), against the titans.

[Wangming]

Oh, no doubt. And I'm partly certain that the first raid is a Void-related raid and 12.2 raid is a Titan-related raid (leading the TLT), mainly because Metzen already talked about the story. The enemies are secondary.

The Void IS the enemy.

BUt okay I have free time, so let's go over the expansions and the raids they were released with.

Vanilla (No real theme here, just Warcraft stuff)
- Released with two raids, Molten Core and Onyxia's lair

TBC (Burning Legion and Illidan)

- Karazhan (Home to Medivh we last saw when the Burning Legion invaded. Last boss is an Eredar)
- Gruul's lair (I'll give you, this is a kinda left field choice. Although he has undisclosed connections to the Illidari)
- Magtheridon's lair (No need to explain. The face of the Legion for the orcs)
- Serpentshire Cavern (The fight against Lady Vashj
- The Eye (Kael'Thas and his famous setback)
- Mount Hyjal (It is the fight against Archimonde and the Legion)

WotLK (We go and fight the Scourge on their home turf
- Naxxramas (doesn't get much more Scourge than this.
- Obsidian Sanctum (dragons)
- Eye of Eternity (more dragons)
- Vault of Archavon (frost giant. Nothing to do with the Scourge, but everything to do with Northrend)

Cataclysm (Deathwing is back, Twilight Hammer and by extension Old God forces. Shit is fucked up)
- Baradin Hold (left field demonic stuff)
- The Bastion of Twilight (Twilight Hammer, Twilight Drakes, Deathwing's wife)
- Throne of the Four Winds (Result of Deathwing's Cataclysmic entry, on Al'akir on N'zoth's payroll.)
- Blackwing Descent (Deathwing's most famous children)

Mists of Pandaria (Pandaria. Go figure. Oh and Garrosh going nuts and being the end boss)
- Mogu'shan Vaults (Mogu, the rulers of Pandaria before the Pandaren took over)
- Heart of Fear (the Mantid, the Old God Worshiping enemies of Pandaren, and their Sha corrupted Empress)
- Terrace of Endless Spring (Jinyu, Cloud Serpents and an elemental corrupted by the Sha. And the Sha)

Warlords of Draenor (Iron Horde, Return to Draenor)
- Highmaul (an ogre raid much like how we had Gruul in TBC. Bit of a stretch I know)
- Blackrock Foundry (Iron Horde and Blackrock Orcs)

Legion (Take a guess)
- Emerald Nightmare (Old God stuff)
- Nighthold (We fight Gul'dan)

Battle for Azeroth (Yeah, we fight)
- Uldir (trolls, fake Old God) (Has nothing to do with faction war, but funnily enough the end boss also was an old God.)

Shadowlands (the underworld, undead)
- Castle Nathria (Vampire castle filled with vampires. Did I mention vampires? I like vampires)

Dragonflight (Dragons)
- Vault of the Incarnates (we kill the evil storm dragon to leave room for her less interesting siblings)

The War Within (Going deep undeground to meet ancient races like the Nerubians)
- Nerub-ar Palace (Nerubians)

Now with all that said. Ignoring the fact that we had one raid for each tier for the past four expansions and the leak already talks about two..

For Midnight the pitch was "Unite the Elves and the forces of light against the Void who plan to attack the Sunwell"

So let's keep looking at leaks with this in mind.