Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Cheezits]

Guys, I vaguely remember someone posting those Void/Dimensius creatures around Blizzcon 2023 time and people dismissed it as AI. Gosh that was like 2 years ago? I also remember some pics they posted that looked a bit like K'aresh(?)

I know what you're talking about but I THINK it was before Shadowlands reveal.

[Hitei]

Man you don't have a clue, don't you?

Ironic.

We took Suramar after months of continuous support of a revolutionary force within the Nightborne, and even then, when we launched our assault, Elisande just came and froze our forces. Only an infiltrated force through the sewers could finally conquer the city, because a normal siege would be impossible.

We took Suramar with the Legion doing nothing to stop it. ELISANDE using the Nightwell (y'know, a nearly identical case to the Sunwell, though I don't expect you to recognize how you continue to undermine your own arguments) and Elisande's forces held us at bay. Felsoul did nothing. Varimathras did nothing. The Legion's grand contribution to the defensive plan was "just hang around waiting with a few dozen soldiers in one of the buildings and have Krosus not even defending anything".

The Legion not only stood their ground in the Tomb of Sargeras, they literally wiped the floor with our corpses.

The Legion stood their ground during their initial invasion. They did not stand their ground when we showed back up to the Tomb with an even smaller force and not only managed to run rampant through their garrisoned forces on the island, but also stride straight into the Tomb and wipe the floor with everything they had including Sargeras' own lieutenant.

I notice you didn't bother to even address how the Legion couldn't manage to defend their own homeworld from a small deployment of Draenei, Illidan and a ship with a laser on it. "b-but the Legion helped at SWP!!!" is an unbelievably sad deflection. The Legion wasn't even the primary defense holding Quel'danas, Kael's loyalist forces were.

Their track record for defending anything is horrendous. They mount assaults, they do not hold positions well. They are a big scary force when they are invading in overwhelming numbers, not when they are defending somewhere.

The Sunwell defensive capabilities were protecting Silvermoon, which was a very hard fight even for Arthas. It was Silvermoon who stood against the Scourge, not the Sunwell, which proves my point. Silvermoon could help resist the Void, but with Silvermoon gone, the Sunwell doesn't has a chance. As Chronicles II stated, after Silvermoon fell, ''the Scourge swept over Quel'Danas''. It was not even a fight after Arthas challenged and killed Anasterian, who fled to Quel'Danas believing that the Scourge would not be able to go there without boats, but of course he was wrong. Silvermoon fell and the rest was piece of cake for Arthas.

Silvermoon didn't stand against the Scourge, the Elfgates and Bandinoriel did. Silvermoon was completely wiped out the second the Sunwell's defenses lowered.

When Silvermoon fell after a very difficult campaign for the Scourge, which only achieved victory with the help of a traitor, Quel'Danas could not defend itself. I agree that the Sunwell helped defend Silvermoon, that is obvious, yet that doesn't change that the Sunwell without Silvermoon fell without a fight, as when Kael'thas came from Outland and Silvermoon could not help in the defense of Quel'Danas, and again it fell immediately.

No. The Sunwell didn't "help defend Silvermoon" the Sunwell was the ONLY actual worthwhile defense for the entire kingdom. Silvermoon fell without a fight as soon as the Sunwell's shielding forces for the outer gates and bandinoriel fell--because it is nothing but a regular city with a wall. They had all the children in Silvermoon get on boats and get ready to sail to Quel'danas even before the defenses fell because Quel'danas was their stronghold, not Silvermoon. As soon as the wards from the Sunwell fell, Arthas just sent nerubians right under the wall and gargoyles over the wall and Silvermoon barely put up a fight.

Also, you are wrong. First, the fall of Quel'thalas is Chronciles III, not II. Second, it does not stat that "after Silvermoon fell" the Scourge swept over Quel'danas. It states that they swept over Quel'danas after Anasterian died holding the shore of the island and their morale crumbled. Because again, Silvermoon was inconsequential, the Sunwell was the actual important bit and thanks to Dar'khan, they no longer had any access to it.

Multiple times? Name one.

I just named two, you being obtuse isn't going to change the reality of the situation.

Arthas, only held at bay by the Sunwell's defenses, took Silvermoon and THEN had to go march Quel'danas.

The Horde held Silvermoon effectively the whole of BC and they, the Alliance, the Aldor and the Scryers still had to mount an extensive attack on the island to take it.

Because the city does nothing. It is a civilian liability that is protected by the Sunwell, it does not protect the Sunwell. It is well within the realm of possibilities that 12.0 Silvermoon is a hostile zone and Quel'danas is Midnight's "city".

[Mackud]

apparently a leaked frame of midnight cgi




Smells AI generated to me

Actually not. That's Sunfury Spire, a building in Silvermoon. The same building is in Expansion Reveal poster but behind a purple shade. The building arch gives it away what it is, in any colour form.

Everyone knew Silvermoon was going to be centre focus of the story, I suggested myself that it'll be the new neutral HUB of the expansion and they're definitely pointing fingers that way putting so much attention on it.

[huth]

Their track record for defending anything is horrendous. They mount assaults, they do not hold positions well. They are a big scary force when they are invading in overwhelming numbers, not when they are defending somewhere.

Which is perfectly sensible when you consider their standard MO is overwhelming numbers and simply not leaving anything to defend against. Of course they're not going to be good at a task they hardly ever do.

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Actually not. That's Sunfury Spire, a building in Silvermoon. The same building is in Expansion Reveal poster but behind a purple shade. The building arch gives it away what it is, in any colour form.

Everyone knew Silvermoon was going to be centre focus of the story, I suggested myself that it'll be the new neutral HUB of the expansion and they're definitely pointing fingers that way putting so much attention on it.

No, that's from a D3 cinematic and that's part of the High Heavens.

[KyleEverett]

We don't know that. 11.2 is an Ethereal Raid. The entire Worldsoul saga is void themed. You're saying that like the final battle against the void is going to be in 12.0, which it definitely won't be.

For the same reason 8.3 took us from old gods, to a cinematic of Sylvanas battling the Lich King, to a season about fighting a vampire in a big castle. Going from K'aresh, to the void invading Silvermoonm, to the Amani is more in line with Blizzard's style.

We do know that. Metzen said we push back the shadow for good in Midnight.

[Joshuaj]

We do know that. Metzen said we push back the shadow for good in Midnight.

We'd push them back in Midnight. Not "we beat them in 12.0"

[KyleEverett]

We'd push them back in Midnight. Not "we beat them in 12.0"

I'm disagreeing mostly over the entire saga being void themed.

[Limayria]

theres 0 chance we get 3 void themed raids in a row, so either midnights 12.0 patch deals with the void or leaves it unresolved

which one seems more likely

[Ersula]

theres 0 chance we get 3 void themed raids in a row, so either midnights 12.0 patch deals with the void or leaves it unresolved

which one seems more likely

Which is why I proposed the first season would be about the Amani.

Xal did get a powerup from Dimensius, but an outright assault is not Xalatath's style. She strategically gives others power to do the thing she happens to want, so I'm betting she'll be giving the Amani who are still mad at silvermoon a powerup. As for the sky opening above Silvermoon....

The end of raid dialog suggests when the players are returned to K'aresh, Xalatath & Alleria are missing. After being abducted by Xal, I propose the cinematic will feature a version of Alleria who has been driven completely insane from the void, now attacking silvermoon, as an expression of all her unresolved feelings about her family & identity.

Loving silvermoon, hating the horde. Missing her family, resenting her family for being distant. Her comments about communing with the Sunwell while feeling obligated to leave it all behind for a world that hasn't gotten any better.... Her baggage effectively encompasses the entirety of the warcraft history so it feels like its come fill circle.

Which is merely just a distraction for Xal's actual plan, once again.

We do know that. Metzen said we push back the shadow for good in Midnight.

Yeah, the statement I was commenting on was "Illidan, Sargeras & the rest of the Titans" coming back to Azeroth in 13.0 - that's certainly not "confirmed" and I highly doubt they'd all appear simultaneously, like its halftime in Space Jam.

[Golden Yak]

Speaking of Amani, if we get a Zul'Aman zone (please, Blizzard, please oh please), the zone storyline should involve the resurrection of Zul'jin.

For real, have the Zandalari come over, have them be like "hmmm, our amani cousins are in dire straits, they're in danger of being devoured by dark powers, we can't have a repeat of Zul'Drak, they need something to unite them and give them hope" and carry out some Thunder King-style resurrection ritual.

Bring him back! Give him both arms even! Now is the time!

[Dvalin]

Which is why I proposed the first season would be about the Amani.

Xal did get a powerup from Dimensius, but an outright assault is not Xalatath's style. She strategically gives others power to do the thing she happens to want, so I'm betting she'll be giving the Amani who are still mad at silvermoon a powerup. As for the sky opening above Silvermoon....

The end of raid dialog suggests when the players are returned to K'aresh, Xalatath & Alleria are missing. After being abducted by Xal, I propose the cinematic will feature a version of Alleria who has been driven completely insane from the void, now attacking silvermoon, as an expression of all her unresolved feelings about her family & identity.

Loving silvermoon, hating the horde. Missing her family, resenting her family for being distant. Her comments about communing with the Sunwell while feeling obligated to leave it all behind for a world that hasn't gotten any better.... Her baggage effectively encompasses the entirety of the warcraft history so it feels like its come fill circle.

Which is merely just a distraction for Xal's actual plan, once again.

Yeah, the statement I was commenting on was "Illidan, Sargeras & the rest of the Titans" coming back to Azeroth in 13.0 - that's certainly not "confirmed" and I highly doubt they'd all appear simultaneously, like its halftime in Space Jam.

This scenario is impossible, as there's a short 'lull' between the expansions' stories. Turalyon and Alleria go on a short adventure in some Legion ruins, according to the upcoming novel.

[Ersula]

This scenario is impossible, as there's a short 'lull' between the expansions' stories. Turalyon and Alleria go on a short adventure in some Legion ruins, according to the upcoming novel.

It's possible if my theory that the novel runs parallel to TWW is correct: It says the legion holdout happens "after the events of khaz algar" only the first raid regards the events of khaz algar, so I propose that's just the first part of the novel & happens before the events on K'aresh. We'll probably see what Arator is doing before and After the battle with Dimensius. This would be consistent with the 3 previous wow Novels, each consisting of parts at wildly different points in time.

[Joshuaj]

I'm disagreeing mostly over the entire saga being void themed.

Why wouldn't it be?

TWW at least built up Dimensius from the start of the expac. If Midnight mentioned the Titans or summ like that at the beginning of the expac, then yeah, I'd understand your reasoning more. But like...idk. I think Midnight's main patches should be Light and Shadow based.

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This type of conflict shouldn't be glossed over.

[KyleEverett]

Saga means all 3 expansions. Personally I don't need 9 patches of Xal and void.

[Joshuaj]

Sure, but personally, I don't want them to rush Renilash.

[Mackud]

Speaking of Amani, if we get a Zul'Aman zone (please, Blizzard, please oh please), the zone storyline should involve the resurrection of Zul'jin.

For real, have the Zandalari come over, have them be like "hmmm, our amani cousins are in dire straits, they're in danger of being devoured by dark powers, we can't have a repeat of Zul'Drak, they need something to unite them and give them hope" and carry out some Thunder King-style resurrection ritual.

Bring him back! Give him both arms even! Now is the time!

I mean. There's 2 major things wrong about this.

Armani have zero affliation with Zul'Drak, wrong tribe. And the tribe affiliated with Zul'Drak are confirmed extinct in-game
And secondly. I'm guessing you've never noticed Zul'jin being tortured in Revendreth - You can find him in the 5 man dungeon associated with the zone - a pretty impossible situation right there.

It's pretty much the worst kept secret already the big Qiraji underground is the patch antagonist of the patch, who decides to associate with it is anyone's guess. An educated guess would be Ula-Tek, it's the Armani equivalent of Hakkar who we've never seen in game because they've failed at it twice now so the ritual has never been successful for them where it's succeded many times for the Gurubashi.

And also possibly Hakkar himself due to the close aligment between the Gurubashi and the Armani.

[Lahis]

The biggest hint would be the Gleeful glamour for Ethereals. Do they give you a version wearing player armor or npc armor? But the item isn't currently obtainable on the ptr. We'd need a dataminer to see how the item works rn.

Ethereal models cannot wear player armor, so it is just NPC models.

[Wangming]

Saga means all 3 expansions. Personally I don't need 9 patches of Xal and void.

Me neither. I need 10.

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it's the Armani equivalent of Hakkar who we've never seen in game because they've failed at it twice now so the ritual has never been successful for them where it's succeded many times for the Gurubashi.

And also possibly Hakkar himself due to the close aligment between the Gurubashi and the Armani.

I bet Armani trolls have great fashion sense. Ooooh think of all the transmog.
Give Alleria an Armani outfit to make her look good as Xal's captive.

[Limayria]

Me neither. I need 10.

I'd be fine with 9 patches as long as we get a self indulgent xalleria wedding questline at the end )

imagine if the first raid ends up having a "secret" final boss thats totally encrypted but hints point to it being Xal (like people suspect) but it turns out to be turyalon or yrel turning on us after driving back the shadow, it'd be very in character for Xal to surrender if we foiled her plans; she deeply respects our ability to kill things and i could see her helping to stop her plans if it meant us sparing her

we agree because we see no other way to stop the corruption of the world soul and then bam the light burst in and a naaru sacrfices itself to turn the void corrupting the world soul to light and we've gotta fight to stop the light from claiming the worldsoul from under our nose

and that was the future the light has been guiding order too "the one true future"

[Darkarath]

We took Suramar with the Legion doing nothing to stop it. ELISANDE using the Nightwell (y'know, a nearly identical case to the Sunwell, though I don't expect you to recognize how you continue to undermine your own arguments) and Elisande's forces held us at bay. Felsoul did nothing. Varimathras did nothing. The Legion's grand contribution to the defensive plan was "just hang around waiting with a few dozen soldiers in one of the buildings and have Krosus not even defending anything".

You keep twisting facts to try to fit your narrative but it doesn't work. Facts are facts. Go to Suramar now. The city is full of demons. The Legion did nothing to defend Suramar? Leaving aside that, again, it took months to conquer the city and that a normal siege would be pointless, Gul'dan was there, Tichondrius was there, Krosus was there. They died defending Suramar.

Are we even playing the same game?

The Legion stood their ground during their initial invasion. They did not stand their ground when we showed back up to the Tomb with an even smaller force and not only managed to run rampant through their garrisoned forces on the island, but also stride straight into the Tomb and wipe the floor with everything they had including Sargeras' own lieutenant.

No, they did not stood their ground. They annihilated us. Again, you twist facts.

We did not send a small force into the Tomb. First, we repelled the Legion in all Azeroth. Second, we cleaned the Broken Isles of demons, and then and only then, we were able to fully focus on the Broken Shore, sending all our forces there again. There is a cinematic that show all the leaders of the Class Order Halls before the assault. Illidan, Maiev and Khadgar were there with us, and plenty of soldiers too.

Try to pay more attention next time that you farm the Tomb of Sargeras.

I notice you didn't bother to even address how the Legion couldn't manage to defend their own homeworld from a small deployment of Draenei, Illidan and a ship with a laser on it. "b-but the Legion helped at SWP!!!" is an unbelievably sad deflection. The Legion wasn't even the primary defense holding Quel'danas, Kael's loyalist forces were.

I fully agree with you regarding Argus, even if they were being attacked by the Void at the same time, it was shameful that the biggest threat for the universe fell so easily to us. While I enjoyed Argus as a patch zone, I remember thinking how the fuck we were able to do what we were doing.

On the matter of Kael'thas, there is no agreement. He took the Sunwell with the remains of his armies of Outland, so, not much, showing how easily conquered the Sunwell is without the support of Silvermoon.

Silvermoon didn't stand against the Scourge, the Elfgates and Bandinoriel did. Silvermoon was completely wiped out the second the Sunwell's defenses lowered.

That is completely false and you know it, since you read Chronicles III. Quote: ''As Arthas and the Scourge plunged deeper into the forests, Sylvanas and her rangers launched their attack from all sides. The fighting was fierce and frenzied. The Undead moved steadily toward Silvermoon City, but Sylvanas made them pay dearly for every step taken. She was a brilliant tactician, and her dogged persistence infuriated Arthas''.

Not a single mention of magical defenses. It was the valor and skills of the Elves that made the Scourge bleed, and their trust in the Sunwell what made them weak.

Also, you are wrong. First, the fall of Quel'thalas is Chronciles III, not II. Second, it does not stat that "after Silvermoon fell" the Scourge swept over Quel'danas. It states that they swept over Quel'danas after Anasterian died holding the shore of the island and their morale crumbled. Because again, Silvermoon was inconsequential, the Sunwell was the actual important bit and thanks to Dar'khan, they no longer had any access to it.

Exactly, Anasterian challenged Arthas and died quickly. End of the Sunwell defense, and the Scourge swept over Quel'Danas. So, Silvermoon fell, Quel'Danas fell immediately after without a fight, even if they moved the rest of their armies there. Yet another time that the Sunwell proves to be an extremely weak position to defend.

I just named two, you being obtuse isn't going to change the reality of the situation.

Your two examples have been proven wrong again. The facts are that the Sunwell has never put up a fight. Only when the Legion was there, and even then they didn't last long.

Anyway, is clear to me that we won't reach an agreement, and I don't want to tire the forum with this topic.

I believe that the majority of players would understand that in Midnight the Sunwell is Legion's Broken Shore and Silvermoon is Dalaran. The other way around? Highly unlikely.