Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[milkmustache]

This or I would love for him to become a loa of the Amani.

But sadly, given the current state of the narrative. I think he's going to get scapegoated by some younger, forest troll visionary leader. We'll learn that the Amani are actually peaceful people and Zul'jin forced them into war and he was wrong for hating the elves for stealing their land.

Rolled my eyes at how potentially correct this is.

The storyline is great once, okay twice, but boring over and over. It's on par with the "we choose our own path" storyline that that has been used for almost every new settlement we meet.

[Nymrohd]

Where is that from?

From Ask CDev Answers - Round 2

If trolls are able to regenerate their limbs, why didn't Zul'jin's arm grow back?
For the most part, it is the speed at which trolls regenerate that makes them formidable foes. When in balance with the loa of their tribe, they are also able to regrow digits (fingers and toes). Tales abound in troll culture, however, of those blessed by the loa with extraordinary regenerative abilities, such as the ability to regrow limbs and even vital organs lost in battle. The tale of Vula'jin the Void speaks of how he regrew almost his entire body after standing in a pool of shadowflame. But just as the loa can bless, they can also curse; troll children are taught legends of those cursed by the loa, unable to heal even flesh wounds, to instill the proper respect for their patron spirits.

The implication has been that Zul'jin was cursed by the Loa. And if he wasn't back then, he sure would be after enslaving them under Malacrass.

[Khaza-R]

From Ask CDev Answers - Round 2


The implication has been that Zul'jin was cursed by the Loa. And if he wasn't back then, he sure would be after enslaving them under Malacrass.

Sure, but that doesn't really support what you said though about vengeance versus helping his people. For all we know he was cursed for making a pact with the Orcs and then breaking it.

[Golden Yak]

I mean. There's 2 major things wrong about this.

Armani have zero affliation with Zul'Drak, wrong tribe. And the tribe affiliated with Zul'Drak are confirmed extinct in-game

You missed my point. The Zandalari were there when Zul'Drak went down the tubes, they were part of the quest hub, they saw how bad things got. The idea is that they would want to avoid having this happen again with the Amani. Hence 'we can't have a repeat of Zul'Drak'.

And secondly. I'm guessing you've never noticed Zul'jin being tortured in Revendreth - You can find him in the 5 man dungeon associated with the zone - a pretty impossible situation right there.

I have absolutely noticed that, especially given that it involves his soul apparently running free from confinement. Maybe Bwonsamdi can send us on a mission to extract him.

I agree that the c'thraxxi buried beneath Zul'Aman is going to be the big bad of the region's story, probably roused at last by all the Void energy that's going to be flooding the land.

He is not at De Other Side, he is at Revendreth. So don't place your hopes high.

Was the Thunder King ever there? Did it matter to their ritual? Since he was resurrected after like 15,000 years, I don't know that Zul'jin would prove to be more problematic.

[milkmustache]

I have absolutely noticed that, especially given that it involves his soul apparently running free from confinement. Maybe Bwonsamdi can send us on a mission to extract him.

Oh man, you just reminded me that Midnight has heavy Bwonsamdi potential. Pleaaaase Blizz, do not leave him behind.

[Imotbh]

Are you talking about the plane energy levels book?

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...7#post54709297

I was! Thanks for the link.

[Joshuaj]

I agree, it still blows my mind that the original plan was for Midnight to be a mid expansion patch, likely involving Beledar, and TWW was going to end with the Titans in the Coreway.

That's...not at all what the original plan was.

The original plan was still based around us going underground and seeing the subterranean landscapes of Azeroth. However, due to the nature of the story (which likely involved the Worldcore), and due to WoW entering its 20th anniversary soon (by the time of its conception), Metzen decided to expand it, and add in the Light Vs Shadow plotline, as well as the Titans return plotline. This is quite literally how the Worldsoul Saga came to be.

- - - Updated - - -

Tbf, TWW would have had a good buildup for Dimensius if they had released the karesh story BEFORE TWW, as it was supposed to be. But they went with "we want to sUrPr1Se p3opl3" instead.

I mean, sure?

But that would also kinda spoil the K'aresh reveal early on, no?

[milkmustache]

That's...not at all what the original plan was.

The original plan was still based around us going underground and seeing the subterranean landscapes of Azeroth. However, due to the nature of the story (which likely involved the Worldcore), and due to WoW entering its 20th anniversary soon (by the time of its conception), Metzen decided to expand it, and add in the Light Vs Shadow plotline, as well as the Titans return plotline. This is quite literally how the Worldsoul Saga came to be.

I mean, sure?

But that would also kinda spoil the K'aresh reveal early on, no?

I think you're actually on the money about the Light vs Shadow being the main big Metzen add.

The K'aresh story also could have worked well earlier on because of the prequel questline. There was a big emphasis on Locus Walker and the reveal that he knew Xal'atath, it could have slotted within that time frame and look like background lore without spoiling K'aresh per se. I think K'aresh had always been on the forefront for this saga, so frontloading the lore before the saga even starts kind of avoids that spoiling.

[13last]

I genuinely think people need to temper their expectations.

It's the 11th expansions. People should know by now that things are like they seem.

Blizzard never plays 5D chess, and never have. Midnight is going to be the end of the Void story-arc and TLT will deal with Titans.

I agree with this. My only question is why do the Titans come back? I do think the void will be "defeated" in Midnight but they'll be traces left or sunwell corrupted(maybe worldsoul?) or something along those lines that makes them come back. And since we know Illidan and Sargeras come back and from what Metzen mentioned about the grand conspiracy about the Titans I generally think we'll be "fighting" the Titans to stop whatever they want to do to Azeroth (and I would bet that Sargeras will get Illidan to change his mind and let him free so they can stop the Titans plan).

I also am a believer that Sargeras was not trying to kill the worldsoul with his sword (I know that was his initial plan) but I don't buy it personally. Blizzard seem very quiet on that sword on purpose and I think it's somehow related to this grand conspiracy.

I think you're actually on the money about the Light vs Shadow being the main big Metzen add.

I like this, my only question is when does the light come in? Midnight? I would think so, but I personally think we'll be dealing with the Light post worldsoul saga, maybe a Holy War or something. I don't see the Light in LTL as it's about the Titans and Illidan/Sargeras. Maybe they'll dispatch some fanatics to help us during Midnight and when we're "done" with the void they report back to whomever that Azeroth is teeming with void (void elf's, etc) and next saga? Idk but I'm curious.

[Nathanyel]

I personally thought the Avaloren leak was real because it was lazy enough [...]

Boring enough to be real.

The only lazy thing here is people regurgitating that same "joke" over and over, a literal strawman argument where you invent the worst turn of events as "something that almost happened" and then act like we barely avoided that.

I'm sorry, what? When did this come out? It sounds terrible and I'm glad they shifted course.

It didn't, people just took one bit of information (11.0 was planned as a stand-alone expansion before Metzen [after getting input from the story team] pitched the Worldsoul Saga) and spun that into "each expansion would've been a patch"

[Golden Yak]

I like this, my only question is when does the light come in? Midnight? I would think so, but I personally think we'll be dealing with the Light post worldsoul saga, maybe a Holy War or something. I don't see the Light in LTL as it's about the Titans and Illidan/Sargeras. Maybe they'll dispatch some fanatics to help us during Midnight and when we're "done" with the void they report back to whomever that Azeroth is teeming with void (void elf's, etc) and next saga? Idk but I'm curious.

Gotta be in the first patch.

Launch content: Dark. Patch: Light. Last Patch: Back to Dark.

(Or something).

With the way TWW went, maybe last patch will be Titans and we fight Iridikron as a lead-in to them or some shit.

[milkmustache]

I like this, my only question is when does the light come in? Midnight? I would think so, but I personally think we'll be dealing with the Light post worldsoul saga, maybe a Holy War or something. I don't see the Light in LTL as it's about the Titans and Illidan/Sargeras. Maybe they'll dispatch some fanatics to help us during Midnight and when we're "done" with the void they report back to whomever that Azeroth is teeming with void (void elf's, etc) and next saga? Idk but I'm curious.

Well it's interesting, because aside from the fact we know the Void is heading to snuff out the Sunwell, we really don't have a ton of certainty on where the Light comes in yet, just that it does because of the logline given to us at Blizzcon.

I personally see multiple angles in which the Light finds involvement;

• Firstly, we're the main characters of the story, and if it's willed by the writers it will happen. Just had to get that one out of the way.
• The general relationship between Light & Void, it's history with the Sunwell, the Blood Elves, and the Naaru. If Azeroth is truly so important in the grand scheme of things that the Void is making a massive gambit towards it, then it's safe to assume the Light will want to be involved, making it a battleground for their long war.
• The Arathi becomming a new player in the world and their relationship with the Light opens the door for a larger light wielding army.
• If we're retreading plotlines from TBC and picking up threads from Legion, then Velen, the Draenei and the Naaru will certainly be involved in this grand battle.
• A little tinfoil of my own is that part of the twist in TLT is that they have some involvement with the Light (amongst other things). On top of learning that the Titans are not all too good, I think we'll be learning the same for the Light.

But in general, it's simply the importance of having a grand opposing force that works for the story telling. Darkness verus Light is a classic story trope, and it'll add to the Saga. If we're truly looking to eliminate the prescence of Void forever as we have with Fel, then it's assumed that it's polar opposite will have to come out on top. I'm not exactly referring to the whole cosmos chart here with that, but just in literal matters; if the objective is to snuff out darkness, then light will be the result. Maybe a big part of that story is finding out that balance is more important than all? Who knows, but the two are almost universally dealt with in tandem, and I think that'll be used in Midnight.

[Makorus]

My guess for Midnight is Void -> Light -> Xal (who partially succeeds like Sargeras)

12.0.5 will have a Zul'Aman minipatch and a zone-extension.

[Jolly Roger]

Why would we need to siege it? The Void are the ones trying to get to it, so presumably we would be defending the island not assaulting it.

because the idea is a void portal is under the sunwell

[Makorus]

because the idea is a void portal is under the sunwell

Yeah I think it is very much a case of "remember the nightborne recruitment quest".

Xalatath sneaks into Silvermoon and corrupts the Sunwell.

[milkmustache]

Yeah I think it is very much a case of "remember the nightborne recruitment quest".

Xalatath sneaks into Silvermoon and corrupts the Sunwell.

Oh she's definitely going to abandon her body and take over Alleria inbetween expansions, isn't she?

[Makorus]

Oh she's definitely going to abandon her body and take over Alleria inbetween expansions, isn't she?

Dunno. I've heard conflicting things about the post-raid situation. Xal is definitely staying behind, but I heard Alleria goes MIA. If that's the case, 100%.

Then again, that would literally be the set-up of TWW, so idk.

[Vakir]

People were really annoyed when expansion themes and conflicts came out of nowhere so they started working the inciting incidents into the raids just prior (Siege, Hellfire, Forge Omega) or at the very least some sort of epilogue.

Certain themes have certain connective tissue in terms of aesthetics which means sometimes there's going to be visual overlap, but it seems like you just can't win if people are going to complain when a final raid has something in common with an expansion launch when it makes logical sense for them to have similarities.

Archimonde and Gul'dan at Hellfire led into the Legion invasion, but the first raid of Legion was Suramar and Emerald Nightmare which had nothing in common with the green spammage even if there were a fair amount of Legion enemies, and the launch zones were way more focused on naga, elves, vrykul, and tauren with the Legion as supporting threats.

Really the only "fatigue" from a final patch to launch that I can buy is Siege into WoD, because it was still heavily orcs for zone threats and one of the immediate raids was a big orc foundry similar to Garrosh's bunker.

But the alternative is the early days of kicking off expansions for no reason - the Dark Portal opening, the Lich King invading, Deathwing waking up, or us crashing into an uncharted island of bears literally just because.

[Makorus]

With the introduction of epilogues and .5 and .7 patches, I honestly don't think we need to dedicate the entire last patch to the next expansion. You take something away from the actual expansion, and you also take something away from the following expansion.

I think the way Dragonflight handled it was almost perfect.

[Vakir]

With the introduction of epilogues and .5 and .7 patches, I honestly don't think we need to dedicate the entire last patch to the next expansion. You take something away from the actual expansion, and you also take something away from the following expansion.

I think the way Dragonflight handled it was almost perfect.

I agree with that principle, but we don't know the full extent of the overlap between K'aresh and Midnight even if it's easy to speculate/connect.

Also, I dunno about Dragonflight being a good example, really. Azeroth awakens, yes, and that leads to the Radiant Song and makes us more aware of the threat surrounding Xal, but it's also working backwards by having almost every major character completely unaware of Azeroth being a world soul just to exposit things from BFA, and then suddenly she's threatened for the sake of it being the right timing for an expansion.

I really do think if we hadn't gotten the Worldsoul Saga reveal and a road map of the next two chapters, people would have been way less confident in TWW and it wouldn't have landed the same way.