Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Wyrt]

This. Blood elf story needs Vereesa, Alleria and Umbric to be relevant now.

The blood elf story needs characters that aren't blood elves and hate blood elves?

[Hitei]

The blood elf story needs characters that aren't blood elves and hate blood elves?

Considering the entire story is about them reuniting and there's literally no actual difference beyond who they are aligned with that year, yes.

[Palapop]

Not all Egyptian are Coptic people. Most Egyptians are Arabs nowadays, it's not even close.

*NOWADAYS*. Egyptians ARE Coptic people. Arabs have just migrated (invaded literally) to Northern Africa.

- - - Updated - - -

Just to add:

What do you think about End Times (Cata) dungeon? Somehow I think many people forgot that dungeon. Yet, its all about Old Gods winning, whole world succumbing to darkness.
And it happens where? - Northrend
Bosses? - Jaina, Sylvanas, Tyrande, Baine (lol... forget I said anything about that) and a dragonflight.

Dunno... but I'd really like to see some connections between these facts. Considering that all these bosses were mega represented in last 2 (maybe even 3 or more) expansions.

[Scyth]

The militant hate group has no purpose now that Dalaran is destroyed. She's the leader of nothing.

Hopefully their only purpose is to disappear tbh.
I hate Vareesa as a character and really hope she isn’t made relevant lol

[Zaelsino]

The militant hate group has no purpose now that Dalaran is destroyed. She's the leader of nothing.

Hopefully their only purpose is to disappear tbh.
I hate Vareesa as a character and really hope she isn’t made relevant lol

On that note, the Kirin Tor quests in TWW give me hope that the Sunreavers/Silver Covenant were too fucked by the crash to contribute much to Midnight. I'd much rather quest for Rommath and his Magisters than Aethas and his Sunreavers, and I can't imagine the void elves would receive so much build-up just to get broomed in favour of the Silver Covenant, whom they broomed.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

I really hate the idea of conflating all the Thalassian elves or turning them into a mighty gestalt to wank Quel'Thalas.

Here's my position: all of the Thalassian elves are products of different choices and have cultures wholly shaped by those choices: the high elves were those who did the right thing from the beginning, casting off their xenophobia and dependence on magic. The blood elves are those who were lost and subsequently found, having had an extra opportunity to mature as a race that the high elves didn't necessarily receive—you can see this in how much less vindictive (take, for instance, their intent on sitting out taking revenge on Arthas until Sylvanas effectively forced their hand) the blood elves are now compared to Alleria et al., and in the new identity of the blood knights. The void elves are those that never learned their lesson and kept digging.

These differences are sufficient to serve as the foundations for interesting cultural differences. Each race, in addition to having undergone a different arc, have different arcs ahead of them—they have unique flaws and perks beyond the Thalassian gestalt. The high elves, if they fully reunited with the blood elves in a neutral Thalassian bloc, would in the process lose their historical identity—the elves who abandoned their dependency on magic and stuck with their allies over their homeland would reach a conclusion that undoes them instead of allows them to progress in any interesting way. Similarly, the blood elves' descent out of having a unique identity would be fully complete when there are ways to progress them without doing so. It would also require the vindication of the void elves, which totally contradicts the blood elves' story arc—magic run out of control is corrupting, but apparently chugging crazy juice and letting the ends justify the means is just a fasttrack to yassqueen bait.

The high elves, blood elves, and void elves are all interesting races that are better off going their own way instead of getting assimilated into one execrable Thalassian gestalt. All of them have potential for future development that would be kneecapped by that decision.

[Zaelsino]

I really hate the idea of conflating all the Thalassian elves or turning them into a mighty gestalt to wank Quel'Thalas.

Here's my position: all of the Thalassian elves are products of different choices and have cultures wholly shaped by those choices: the high elves were those who did the right thing from the beginning, casting off their xenophobia and dependence on magic. The blood elves are those who were lost and subsequently found, having had an extra opportunity to mature as a race that the high elves didn't necessarily receive—you can see this in how much less vindictive (take, for instance, their intent on sitting out taking revenge on Arthas until Sylvanas effectively forced their hand) the blood elves are now compared to Alleria et al., and in the new identity of the blood knights. The void elves are those that never learned their lesson and kept digging.

These differences are sufficient to serve as the foundations for interesting cultural differences. Each race, in addition to having undergone a different arc, have different arcs ahead of them—they have unique flaws and perks beyond the Thalassian gestalt. The high elves, if they fully reunited with the blood elves in a neutral Thalassian bloc, would in the process lose their historical identity—the elves who abandoned their dependency on magic and stuck with their allies over their homeland would reach a conclusion that undoes them instead of allows them to progress in any interesting way. Similarly, the blood elves' descent out of having a unique identity would be fully complete when there are ways to progress them without doing so. It would also require the vindication of the void elves, which totally contradicts the blood elves' story arc—magic run out of control is corrupting, but apparently chugging crazy juice and letting the ends justify the means is just a fasttrack to yassqueen bait.

The high elves, blood elves, and void elves are all interesting races that are better off going their own way instead of getting assimilated into one execrable Thalassian gestalt. All of them have potential for future development that would be kneecapped by that decision.

Excellent post.

FWIW, I'm not convinced "reunify the scattered elven tribes of Azeroth" quite translates to "void and high elves fade back into blood elf society to create one big boring neutral race," as people were quick to assume. Certainly it could happen, especially in this era of laxer faction restrictions, but as you say, it wouldn't be to any of their benefit.

[Wyrt]

I really hate the idea of conflating all the Thalassian elves or turning them into a mighty gestalt to wank Quel'Thalas.

I very much agree. Blood elves have been watered down too much already. Especially characters like Liadrin that may as well just be humans. Doing that to the whole race so Alliance fans can live out their boring high elf fantasies sounds awful to me.

[Hearthfinder]

I really hate the idea of conflating all the Thalassian elves or turning them into a mighty gestalt to wank Quel'Thalas.

Here's my position: all of the Thalassian elves are products of different choices and have cultures wholly shaped by those choices: the high elves were those who did the right thing from the beginning, casting off their xenophobia and dependence on magic. The blood elves are those who were lost and subsequently found, having had an extra opportunity to mature as a race that the high elves didn't necessarily receive—you can see this in how much less vindictive (take, for instance, their intent on sitting out taking revenge on Arthas until Sylvanas effectively forced their hand) the blood elves are now compared to Alleria et al., and in the new identity of the blood knights. The void elves are those that never learned their lesson and kept digging.

These differences are sufficient to serve as the foundations for interesting cultural differences. Each race, in addition to having undergone a different arc, have different arcs ahead of them—they have unique flaws and perks beyond the Thalassian gestalt. The high elves, if they fully reunited with the blood elves in a neutral Thalassian bloc, would in the process lose their historical identity—the elves who abandoned their dependency on magic and stuck with their allies over their homeland would reach a conclusion that undoes them instead of allows them to progress in any interesting way. Similarly, the blood elves' descent out of having a unique identity would be fully complete when there are ways to progress them without doing so. It would also require the vindication of the void elves, which totally contradicts the blood elves' story arc—magic run out of control is corrupting, but apparently chugging crazy juice and letting the ends justify the means is just a fasttrack to yassqueen bait.

The high elves, blood elves, and void elves are all interesting races that are better off going their own way instead of getting assimilated into one execrable Thalassian gestalt. All of them have potential for future development that would be kneecapped by that decision.

It's important to remember the immense timescales Thalassians are dealing with. Their culture has been shaped over 7000 years in its present form, and before then they were Kaldorei for just as long.

We're not talking about human culture here, which contains traces of older versions of itself for up to a couple of millenia or so. We're now dealing with individuals that were alive back then, or very nearly anyhow.

Kael'thas Sunstrider is only a few generations separated from Dath'Remar Sunstrider who founded the kingdom.

So the events of the past 30 years, however grim, represent a footnote in their history. Cultures that old certainly bounce back.

The problem is that Blizzard needs a unified elven population to avoid being stuck in a perpetual situation of uncertainty and confusion regarding the size of their population, and the issue with offshoots like Void Elves being treated as equals to Blood Elves in terms of gameplay and lore despite being way fewer.

To put it bluntly, it's not ideal that the bulk of the population is Horde while writing the future story for their people.

Unify the High Elves and let both Void and Blood Elves sects remain playable, is my view.

[whoisqnx]

Considering that we just got a new 6 months sub bundle few days ago, do you guys think we will get Midnight pre patch sometime in the second half of January or earlier?
Edit: I dont know if these are related at all, just had a shower thought

[Makorus]

Huh, I am just testing on the PTR, and I've noticed that the damage effect of Dimensius' trinket actually references An'shuul again.



Wonder if An'shuul is gonna be relevant in Midnight or if it will just be a thing that they'll use when they need a comet for trinkets.

Actually, after some more testing, turns out it can actually proc three different names:



They all have the same appearance, maybe the angle the projectile comes in from is slightly different, but I am not sure.

[Limayria]

Huh, I am just testing on the PTR, and I've noticed that the damage effect of Dimensius' trinket actually references An'shuul again.



Wonder if An'shuul is gonna be relevant in Midnight or if it will just be a thing that they'll use when they need a comet for trinkets.

Actually, after some more testing, turns out it can actually proc three different names:



They all have the same appearance, maybe the angle the projectile comes in from is slightly different, but I am not sure.

this is really interesting thank you for sharing

I really hate the idea of conflating all the Thalassian elves or turning them into a mighty gestalt to wank Quel'Thalas.

Here's my position: all of the Thalassian elves are products of different choices and have cultures wholly shaped by those choices: the high elves were those who did the right thing from the beginning, casting off their xenophobia and dependence on magic. The blood elves are those who were lost and subsequently found, having had an extra opportunity to mature as a race that the high elves didn't necessarily receive—you can see this in how much less vindictive (take, for instance, their intent on sitting out taking revenge on Arthas until Sylvanas effectively forced their hand) the blood elves are now compared to Alleria et al., and in the new identity of the blood knights. The void elves are those that never learned their lesson and kept digging.

These differences are sufficient to serve as the foundations for interesting cultural differences. Each race, in addition to having undergone a different arc, have different arcs ahead of them—they have unique flaws and perks beyond the Thalassian gestalt. The high elves, if they fully reunited with the blood elves in a neutral Thalassian bloc, would in the process lose their historical identity—the elves who abandoned their dependency on magic and stuck with their allies over their homeland would reach a conclusion that undoes them instead of allows them to progress in any interesting way. Similarly, the blood elves' descent out of having a unique identity would be fully complete when there are ways to progress them without doing so. It would also require the vindication of the void elves, which totally contradicts the blood elves' story arc—magic run out of control is corrupting, but apparently chugging crazy juice and letting the ends justify the means is just a fasttrack to yassqueen bait.

The high elves, blood elves, and void elves are all interesting races that are better off going their own way instead of getting assimilated into one execrable Thalassian gestalt. All of them have potential for future development that would be kneecapped by that decision.

I think the idea that elven magical dependence is an inherently bad thing is just blandifying them tbh the most interesting trait the Thalassian elves ever had was their magical vampirism, hell even the blood elves being less vindictive doesnt make sense its just bad writing on blizzards part that they didnt wanna take revenge on arthas lmao one of the few reps theyve had outside of TBC was blood thirsty lidarian in the fourth war for some reason, where she just really wants to slaughter kul tiran civilians for no discernable reason instead of taking the fight to Arthas who personally murdered her family and king, this isnt a sign of maturity or anything its just nonsense writing so we could get more orcslop shoved down our throats in the wotlk questing which is made even more clear when none of the orcs bothered to mention or consider that the lich king is an orc, they were just there because "horde = orc"

void elves also arent chugging crazy juice or whatever, theyre learning how the void works which is pretty fucking important considering the fact the void is constantly trying to eat the planet they live on much like the Illidari theyre taking a proactive role in the protection of azeorth something that very few groups bother to do in wow; which are both groups of elves exiled from their society for daring to take personal risks to proactively protect the planet

also combining the Elves into a Thalassian gestalt doesnt require them to all become bland high elves we could make the blood/high elves interesting instead of making the void elves boring but coming at the elves from the position of "magical depdenece is a moral failing" is a pathway straight to "point eared humans"

speaking of pointy eared humans; if they go back on reinforcing the idea of thalassian magical dependence as a genuine biological need rather than a moral failing we could learn that the Arathi also have a more mild form of this dependency that they use the scared flame to stave off which would make sense considering the sacred flame is basically just the sunwell (order/light aspected magic) and could even play into the narrative of religious control the society is under with them literally facing biological effects from being too far away from the flame for too long

[Enrif]

Huh, I am just testing on the PTR, and I've noticed that the damage effect of Dimensius' trinket actually references An'shuul again.



Wonder if An'shuul is gonna be relevant in Midnight or if it will just be a thing that they'll use when they need a comet for trinkets.

Actually, after some more testing, turns out it can actually proc three different names:



They all have the same appearance, maybe the angle the projectile comes in from is slightly different, but I am not sure.

that is something very interesting. Of these i can swear i have heard An'zuq somewhere before, but perhaps written differently. Ansuuk or something like that?

[Alanar]

Excellent post.

FWIW, I'm not convinced "reunify the scattered elven tribes of Azeroth" quite translates to "void and high elves fade back into blood elf society to create one big boring neutral race," as people were quick to assume. Certainly it could happen, especially in this era of laxer faction restrictions, but as you say, it wouldn't be to any of their benefit.

According to some here who have uncles and aunts at blizz, Silvermoon is already neutral and high elves are going to be playable in a new race.

When you repeat yourself, you eventually start believing its already true or already happened. That is whats happening with Midnght currently. We have two lines of text, but appearntly they know more then what is available or known. Truely remarkable.

[Makorus]

According to some here who have uncles and aunts at blizz, Silvermoon is already neutral and high elves are going to be playable in a new race.

When you repeat yourself, you eventually start believing its already true or already happened. That is whats happening with Midnght currently. We have two lines of text, but appearntly they know more then what is available or known. Truely remarkable.

I mean... yeah, we literally have two lines for Midnight, you are right, however, one of them is:

You will not only help reunify the scattered elven tribes of Azeroth [...]

It's important that it's reunify, and not reunite. Similar words, however different meaning. You are right, we can only take what we have at face value, however, what we have right now is that groups of Elves are gonna merge into one faction. We know the expansion takes place in Quel'thalas. Who are the scattered elven tribes from Quel'thalas?

[Alanar]

I mean... yeah, we literally have two lines for Midnight, you are right, however, one of them is:



It's important that it's reunify, and not reunite. Similar words, however different meaning. You are right, we can only take what we have at face value, however, what we have right now is that groups of Elves are gonna merge into one faction. We know the expansion takes place in Quel'thalas. Who are the scattered elven tribes from Quel'thalas?

Sure, but I am not reading "merge in a single faction" into any of this. This is what the forums and fans do. Exactly as I was saying and its happening right now. Not to be rude, but You are proving my point.

To be exact, We know a reunification is on the horizon, but what that exactly means is very much unclear. I am just not trying to read more into it, then what we have been told. For example: Repeating to yourself, that the blood elf race or void elf race will vannish and merge into a singular high elf race (popular high elf fan theory) is a wild claim, but simply doesnt seem likely and has no real ground, then "we want that". People go full pyro on this expansion pack and you just shouldnt do that for your own and other peoples sanity. It sets up dor dissapointment as well.

[Viridiel]

Huh, I am just testing on the PTR, and I've noticed that the damage effect of Dimensius' trinket actually references An'shuul again.



Wonder if An'shuul is gonna be relevant in Midnight or if it will just be a thing that they'll use when they need a comet for trinkets.

Actually, after some more testing, turns out it can actually proc three different names:



They all have the same appearance, maybe the angle the projectile comes in from is slightly different, but I am not sure.

Might be worth pointing out that the Shathyar word for "vessel" is an'qoth, similar in pattern to these.

I don't really know what it all means, but it's quite a coincidence that the Sunwell has been called a vessel and there are all these Cosmic Void objects with names similar to An'she (the Sun).

[Xilurm]

I really hate the idea of conflating all the Thalassian elves or turning them into a mighty gestalt to wank Quel'Thalas.

Here's my position: all of the Thalassian elves are products of different choices and have cultures wholly shaped by those choices: the high elves were those who did the right thing from the beginning, casting off their xenophobia and dependence on magic. The blood elves are those who were lost and subsequently found, having had an extra opportunity to mature as a race that the high elves didn't necessarily receive—you can see this in how much less vindictive (take, for instance, their intent on sitting out taking revenge on Arthas until Sylvanas effectively forced their hand) the blood elves are now compared to Alleria et al., and in the new identity of the blood knights. The void elves are those that never learned their lesson and kept digging.

These differences are sufficient to serve as the foundations for interesting cultural differences. Each race, in addition to having undergone a different arc, have different arcs ahead of them—they have unique flaws and perks beyond the Thalassian gestalt. The high elves, if they fully reunited with the blood elves in a neutral Thalassian bloc, would in the process lose their historical identity—the elves who abandoned their dependency on magic and stuck with their allies over their homeland would reach a conclusion that undoes them instead of allows them to progress in any interesting way. Similarly, the blood elves' descent out of having a unique identity would be fully complete when there are ways to progress them without doing so. It would also require the vindication of the void elves, which totally contradicts the blood elves' story arc—magic run out of control is corrupting, but apparently chugging crazy juice and letting the ends justify the means is just a fasttrack to yassqueen bait.

The high elves, blood elves, and void elves are all interesting races that are better off going their own way instead of getting assimilated into one execrable Thalassian gestalt. All of them have potential for future development that would be kneecapped by that decision.

There's definitely something to be said about stories where they start with very interesting and unique factions and end up as a homogenized mess.

[JohnnyCasual]

Sure, but I am not reading "merge in a single faction" into any of this. This is what the forums and fans do. Exactly as I was saying and its happening right now. Not to be rude, but You are proving my point.

To be exact, We know a reunification is on the horizon, but what that exactly means is very much unclear. I am just not trying to read more into it, then what we have been told. For example: Repeating to yourself, that the blood elf race or void elf race will vannish and merge into a singular high elf race (popular high elf fan theory) is a wild claim, but simply doesnt seem likely and has no real ground, then "we want that". People go full pyro on this expansion pack and you just shouldnt do that for your own and other peoples sanity. It sets up dor dissapointment as well.

speculate
verb
spec·​u·​late
speculated; speculating
Synonyms of speculate

intransitive verb

1
a
: to meditate on or ponder a subject : reflect
b
: to review something idly or casually and often inconclusively


transitive verb

1
: to take to be true on the basis of insufficient evidence : theorize
2
: to be curious or doubtful about : wonder
speculates whether it will rain all vacation

[Alanar]

speculate
verb
spec·​u·​late
speculated; speculating
Synonyms of speculate

intransitive verb

1
a
: to meditate on or ponder a subject : reflect
b
: to review something idly or casually and often inconclusively


transitive verb

1
: to take to be true on the basis of insufficient evidence : theorize
2
: to be curious or doubtful about : wonder
speculates whether it will rain all vacation

Speculating is one thing, but never go full pyro.