Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[huth]

If only they had a roadmap of what's going to happen for three full expansion and behind the scenes do the work in advance. It's not like other dev teams had to recreate and entire MMO from scratch while half the team was still updating the old one. Oh wait..

Well, no. They didn't. Not something of this scale.

[COBRAstriker]

While I'm a big fan of experimental game modes and remixes as it allows for more creative freedom, currently, these are still more FOMO features, and I think that most people prefer features with staying power
Timewalking and remix features alongside some other changes or additions could be a great way at keeping old content relevant and replayable, as one of the main problems WoW has is that you basically play the patches, not the game, and even the game is designed to push you to the latest patch or expansion as fast as possible
Wouldn't it be great if you could go back and do Throne of Thunder on a reasonable difficulty, I would say, I don't think anyone is looking for top end Mythic challenges, for some useful or cool rewards?

[Hearthfinder]

I mean, we're talking revamp or just a touch up? If it's anything like Cata or above then that seems physically impossible to achieve. That is a lot of environment and quests they'd have to make for a single expansion.

The best way to do a revamp is to create a new version of whatever continent they're revamping, recreating the general shape of it but larger with with modern design.

Add support for evergreen world content (world quests, gathering, etc.).

No quest chains are needed, nor any of the old scripted events and such.

Just let it be a canvas for future storytelling.

In 15.0 they might need a quest taking place in the cellars of some building in modern Gilneas, or in 16.0 a temporary event in Hillsbrad.

The revamped continent is always there to support it.

They can also add things not specific to the overarching main story. A campaign for humans, or Rogues? It's all possible and way easier to do in a revamped world.

Not to mention delves and dungeons with a modern design, which could feature in M+ pools or just be there for leveling players to give the world more depth.

[Hitei]

The best way to do a revamp is to create a new version of whatever continent they're revamping, recreating the general shape of it but larger with with modern design.

Add support for evergreen world content (world quests, gathering, etc.).

No quest chains are needed, nor any of the old scripted events and such.

Just let it be a canvas for future storytelling.

In 15.0 they might need a quest taking place in the cellars of some building in modern Gilneas, or in 16.0 a temporary event in Hillsbrad.

The revamped continent is always there to support it.

They can also add things not specific to the overarching main story. A campaign for humans, or Rogues? It's all possible and way easier to do in a revamped world.

Not to mention delves and dungeons with a modern design, which could feature in M+ pools or just be there for leveling players to give the world more depth.

That is a very significant amount of resource allocation for "maybe we'll eventually put a quest in a cellar in Gilneas". Resources that could otherwise go towards actually new and novel stuff.

- - - Updated - - -

Wouldn't it be great if you could go back and do Throne of Thunder on a reasonable difficulty, I would say, I don't think anyone is looking for top end Mythic challenges, for some useful or cool rewards?

That is what MoP Classic is.

[Timester]

Guys, don't expect any EK revamp, it wont going to happen anytime soon as they are planning Quel'thalas AND Northrend revamp. Resources will be focused on what they already mentioned.

Don't get yourselves high-hopes and then dissapointed. Quel'thalas is easy because it's already instanced and still stuck in TBC, and then resources will move to Northrend revamp.

[COBRAstriker]

That is what MoP Classic is.

But it shouldn't be just classic. MoP content didn't vanish from retail. Aa of now, the only reason to revisit it is to one shot everything for some item you're missing
There is much more potential there. At the end of the day, it's supposed to be WORLD of Warcraft, not patch of Warcraft

[Hitei]

But it shouldn't be just classic. MoP content didn't vanish from retail. Aa of now, the only reason to revisit it is to one shot everything for some item you're missing
There is much more potential there. At the end of the day, it's supposed to be WORLD of Warcraft, not patch of Warcraft

There's not really much more potential though, because the devs already made what you are asking for. They made an entire gamemode so you can experience not just Throne of Thunder but every raid, dungeon, quest repgrind, scenario, etc. of MoP at not only "a reasonable difficulty" but nearly exactly the difficulty it was originally created at and balanced for.

Throne of Thunder timewalking/update and slapping a few transmog rewards on it is a pale imitation of a thing that already exists and can be played right now. And also an idea that only works a single time because as soon as you have the rewards from that scaled up ToT, it is just as useless and dead to players as the current retail ToT. It's not really making it "world of warcraft" it's just a patch where everyone goes and runs Throne of Thunder once and then is just as done with it.

[COBRAstriker]

There's not really much more potential though, because the devs already made what you are asking for. They made an entire gamemode so you can experience not just Throne of Thunder but every raid, dungeon, quest repgrind, scenario, etc. of MoP at not only "a reasonable difficulty" but nearly exactly the difficulty it was originally created at and balanced for.

Throne of Thunder timewalking/update and slapping a few transmog rewards on it is a pale imitation of a thing that already exists and can be played right now. And also an idea that only works a single time because as soon as you have the rewards from that scaled up ToT, it is just as useless and dead to players as the current retail ToT. It's not really making it "world of warcraft" it's just a patch where everyone goes and runs Throne of Thunder once and then is just as done with it.

Classic is separate from retail, whatever you earn in either version does not translate in the other. Why shouldn't I be able to take my level 80 in retail, the character I'm actively playing and I'm attached to, and have a go at some old raid with a small group of players for some cool title, crests, chance at a cool mount, or what have you?
Plenty of other MMOs do a decent job at keeping their old content relevant and replayable through various mechanisms, I see no reason why retail shouldn't strive to do the same

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

Guys, don't expect any EK revamp, it wont going to happen anytime soon as they are planning Quel'thalas AND Northrend revamp. Resources will be focused on what they already mentioned.

Do you realize that you are comparing a small area to a large continent? Don't you think Quel'thalas would have to be enlarged enormously to be the size of a continent, or is it more reasonable to think that they would make northern EK, which is more in line with the size of a current continent?

[Radioactive]

Wouldn't it be fun, though?

It could go either way but if, if, they chose to revamp everything north of the Thandol Span, we could have a pretty cool content line-up.

• Quel'Thalas and Zul'Aman - obviously the main setting for the story campaign and focal point of the Void invasion. Slightly expanded from today's size, especially in the east where the trolls dwell. Definitely needs a troll raid or mega-dungeon and a void raid, as well as couple of regular dungeons.
• Eastweald/The Plaguelands/The Northlands - this former scourge stronghold could provide the backdrop for a very cool quest-chain involving the resurgence of a new plague or something similar. Strange disappearances around the villages, people falling ill out of nowhere, and monsters appearing in the night. This would mainly be used to plant the future story seeds for The Last Titan, perhaps in one of the later patches. Also a great location for a dungeon involving the undead or the Red Dawn perhaps.
• The Hinterlands - a quest-chain or battleground could focus on "Old Hatreds" between Amani, High Elves, Wildhammer Dwarves, and perhaps even Ogres. All those four are present to some extent around the borders of The Hinterlands, aren't they? Great way to give purpose to that region. Obviously some type of Void influence to connect it to the main story. Or hey, could even just be a fun 22nd Anniversary event.
• Arathi Highlands and Hillsbrad Foothills - we've just been there but I could see an opportunity to expand on the Arathi lore further. Maybe Hallowfall Arathi arrive in greater numbers. Additionally, we could perhaps follow Faerin Lothar on a legendary quest to find the location of the ancient temple - and the Scion. This would then pay off near the end of the expansion. I could maybe see a dungeon here, based on exploring something related to this temple? Is the Red Dawn trying to sack it? Definitely do something cool with Alterac and Dalaran's crater. Perhaps we could finally get some really cool castle ruins up in the mountains, overlooking the valleys far below. Definitely a delve here, dungeons of old Dalaran or something.
• Gilneas and Silverpine Forest - these go hand in hand in my opinion and could maybe be a new Alliance capital. A city in the making in a beautiful highland coastal setting. The spooky forest would provide a welcome new Alliance backdrop that we usually don't get to see. Spooky witches and lots of mystery. Throw in a delve that lets us explore more lore around the worgen curse and how it (maybe?) connects, however losely, to Queen Craishae.
• New Lordaeron - no motivation needed really, but the Undercity with an overground portion should be re-built for the Forsaken, and this would then be a new capital city for them once more. Obvious location for a dungeon inside the Scarlet Monastery.

Seeing your list made me realize that revamping the north EK might be a little too much for a single expansion. Quel'Thalas should be a huge part of the expansion, having Quel'danas, Sunwell City, Amani empire/city, Ghostland and obviously Silvermoon/Eversong Forest fitting more real scale to the lore.

I could not wish more for a whole North EK revamp, but I cannot see Blizzard make all the zone I said above huge and detailed AND also making the same thing for Loarderon, Eastweald, Arathi, Hillsbrad etc... But they could definitely fit in patch zones to transition toward TLT and shenanigans with Arathi/Red Dawn/Scarlet Crusade/Calia and forsakens

So 4 zones : Eversong Forest, Ghostlands (renamed?), Amani Lands and Quel'Danas (which would be put closer to Silvermoon so Silvermoon+Sunwell City feel like Suramar in terms of scope, if not larger) could be more realistic for launch
Maybe the peninsula above startholme would be a patch zone story-heavy for 12.0.7, leading to an Eastweald zone for 12.1.0 covering Easter plaguelands with Scholomance/Stratholme/Light's hope

But then I am out of guesses for what would be next, because if we have a Loarderon revamp at some point, I wish it would be done properly from Whispering forest to Thandol Span, but it seems not to be expected since we go to Northrend.

The thing is, it would be a missed opportunity if they introduce the Amani Lands with Midnight, and the with TLT we go in Northrend without having any interactions with other trolls in Eastweald, The Hinterlands Arathi Highlands.

[Dvalin]

Do you realize that you are comparing a small area to a large continent? Don't you think Quel'thalas would have to be enlarged enormously to be the size of a continent, or is it more reasonable to think that they would make northern EK, which is more in line with the size of a current continent?

For me, the first. As that's what the devs are claiming to do for Midnight.

[Radioactive]

This is why I would sort of love a WC2 WoW spin-off. Just focus on the Eastern Kingdoms but make the map huge. No more tiny settlements with a few houses. Actual cities and towns.

Oh yeah. A kinda dream of spin off warcraft game in between Elden Ring (RPG) in terms of feel and Warcraft (RTS) in terms of epicness/story, where we explore these lands and have huge army battles.

[Lady Atia]

Classic is separate from retail, whatever you earn in either version does not translate in the other. Why shouldn't I be able to take my level 80 in retail, the character I'm actively playing and I'm attached to, and have a go at some old raid with a small group of players for some cool title, crests, chance at a cool mount, or what have you?
Plenty of other MMOs do a decent job at keeping their old content relevant and replayable through various mechanisms, I see no reason why retail shouldn't strive to do the same

Well tbf, they already asked in a survey if people would like to have classic characters end up on retail. While I doubt they will do it with the current classic ones (since it would be a slap in the face for everyone who didnt play classic because they stated that they wont be connected), I still think a "season of legacy" that is clearly marked as "play through classic-wotlk and end up on retail once all is done" would work a lot better than just "vanilla remix but some things are available and some things arent because .... reasons". I could imagine the chinese event realms are possible a test for that, since the whole fated style system that grinds you through raids would be something that remix players would prolly enjoy a lot.

[Hitei]

Don't you think Quel'thalas would have to be enlarged enormously to be the size of a continent, or is it more reasonable to think that they would make northern EK, which is more in line with the size of a current continent?

The first is more reasonable.

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

For me, the first. As that's what the devs are claiming to do for Midnight.

That's your assumption, because Metzen did indeed say we would return to Quel'thalas, not that it would ONLY be Quel'thalas, although that is possible.

[rainhard]

They could just revamp the entire Kalimdor + EK in Midnight. Problem solved guys.
#teamworldrevamp

Sounds doable and creates absolutely grounded expectations of a complete draenor levels of revamp of every classic continent + zone + resized + levels of details as new zones (rares, treasures, cheevos) + some humble request for a timeless relevance mode.

[Makorus]

Surely they would have said they are doing more than Quel'thalas if they were doing more than Quel'thalas. It would generate so much more hype in the moment, and it's not like anyone is going to lose their shit about a revamped Eastern Plaguelands or Hillsbrad at Gamescom. It's big enough to not reveal but also not big enough to be a hype moment.

[COBRAstriker]

Well tbf, they already asked in a survey if people would like to have classic characters end up on retail. While I doubt they will do it with the current classic ones (since it would be a slap in the face for everyone who didnt play classic because they stated that they wont be connected), I still think a "season of legacy" that is clearly marked as "play through classic-wotlk and end up on retail once all is done" would work a lot better than just "vanilla remix but some things are available and some things arent because .... reasons". I could imagine the chinese event realms are possible a test for that, since the whole fated style system that grinds you through raids would be something that remix players would prolly enjoy a lot.

I think that classic and retail should stay strictly separated. People that play either version have pretty strong reasons for their preference, and even Holly said that the overlap between the versions is much smaller than people are assuming
Then, this opens a whole new can of worms. What exactly can you transfer? Classic is using old tech, most features like reputations and so on are character bound. How do those convert to the warbands system? A polearm in MoP classic will have signficantly Iower stats in retail, for sure some items will slip through and I can already see Blizzard being stuck in a long game of whack a mole here. A lot of other issues that could be popping up
Rather, they should start treating the world (of Warcraft) as an entire unit, and not place all the focus on the latest expansion, or latest patch zone. One, it's become too formulaic, and two, it's not really sustainable. There's only so many mysterious islands on a single world
What I would like to see, is more focus on the world. Give me a delve in Fargodeep Mine in Elwynn Forest with Goldtooth as the final boss. Let me get a small group of friends and tackle an old raid for some cool rewards. Give me some world quests in Outland. Not every new addition has to tie into the current/latest expansion or patch theme

[Al Gorefiend]

To be fair, there was a change in the lore at some point pre-release.

The site for TWW originally said this for Hallowfall: "Lit by a massive crystal at its center, this bright underground zone is home to the Arathi, a human tribe who have battled against nerubians for centuries." It was changed on November 17, 2023 to "Lit by a massive crystal at its center, this bright underground zone is home to the Arathi who are engaged in a continuing battle against the nerubians".

It is probably a safe bet that originally Hallowfall was not where the Hallowfall Arathi ended up but rather where they originated.

This is why ive been so effing confused on arathi lore since I lately been half paying attention since SL.

I just assumed time fuckery magic and collected gear.

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

The first is more reasonable.

I don't know, taking a part of the old world that's already the size of a continent seems more reasonable to me than taking one of the smaller zones and expanding it to the size of an entire continent for an entire expansion, especially since Blizzard likes to diversify its zones to avoid any form of fatigue.

They'd have to significantly expand Quel'thalas to include something other than elves and trolls, so that means new zones, which again isn't impossible (I'm boring everyone with my icy zone), but is still much less likely than simply focusing on existing zones to be honest.

I'm definitely on the #OnlyQuel'thalas team, but I honestly have some doubts. This situation is exciting; it's our first revamp expansion ! Midnight promises to be crazy in many ways. I can't wait to see what Blizzard has in store for us.