Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Cheezits]

Unfortunately, we'll never have quality cinematics like before Shadowlands again. The teams aren't the same anymore, and I think I read that the budget has been significantly reduced, but I might be making up some bullshit on that one. Gone are the days of epic cinematics that sweat testosterone with muscular, oiled-up guys fighting. Make way for sentimentality and tears. I would be surprised if Alleria doesn't show up to cry and show how much she doubts herself but has to protect her family.

Considering how they are treating Dimensius I fully expect Midnights cinematic to be "badass" as well as its plot beats. Dimensius's presentation feels almost Deathwingesque.

TWW's was boring because for whatever reason they didn't want to hype up TWW, but the saga. Probably because they didn't think it was possible to make TWW very hype by itself.

...also the first image shown of Midnight is a giant void tornado so yeah.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

TWW's was boring because for whatever reason they didn't want to hype up TWW, but the saga. Probably because they didn't think it was possible to make TWW very hype by itself.

...also the first image shown of Midnight is a giant void tornado so yeah.

That's true too, even from pure hype and marketing perspective in first reveal TWW felt flat compared to the next two, that not only bring us to the old world, but just sound more epic.

Plus you have cinematic reveal for TWW which i think it was cool enough, but it was another cinematic after DF of characters just talking, the sword was biggest reveal but we won't be doing stuff around that part of the story until way later, after TWW.


I don't need oily, muscular dudes fighting every cinematic either, but they have a cool ass cast of characters on hand, just do some epic shit, epic fights that just pumps you up for battle, you know.

[13last]

This is so passive agressive/nihilistic, I sighed reading this.

Honestly I don't understand people's obsession with "testosterone oiled up guys fighting", we've had enough of that for years, it's almost so one dimensional.
I have no problem with it but it's honestly one of the reasons I stopped watching Asmon as well, all he talks about is the golden days and sweaty men fighting and shitting on retail. Sure it's bloated and needs a soft reset (coming after wss imo) but Blizzard is allowed to do different storylines as they see fit, and come on their budget hasn't been reduced, WSS cinematic with Anduin and Thrall was top tier and I'd be willing to bet Midnight is gonna totally surpass it.

Not shitting on you Magnificus just I don't see anything wrong with sentiment and a more nuanced story if WoWs gonna continue for another 20 years.

[Cheezits]

While I enjoyed TWW launch zones and factions I do think it needed the saga announcement to boost the health of the community.

The one thing I'm annoyed about with the saga changes is the Nerubians being scrapped more or less after launch, I hope they make a come back with TLT.

[Dracullus]

Considering how they are treating Dimensius I fully expect Midnights cinematic to be "badass" as well as its plot beats. Dimensius's presentation feels almost Deathwingesque.

TWW's was boring because for whatever reason they didn't want to hype up TWW, but the saga. Probably because they didn't think it was possible to make TWW very hype by itself.

...also the first image shown of Midnight is a giant void tornado so yeah.

TWW cinematic is amazing on its own and as start of something grand. Only problem is it came after Dragonflight, which also supposed to be calm start of next big saga. It's problem of TWW in general, it must serve same role as Dragonflight, but can't be too calm cause we are already past "end-of-the-world" fatigue.

But opinions that it's shit are isolated, just look on this cinematic on youtube, read comments, see like/dislike ratio (assuming return dislike addon is correct: Wrath 99% likes, MoP 92%, SL 80%, DF 63% - I think MoP was closer to that when it was current, TWW 92%).

I won't even discuss with bullshit comments how current people behind CGI stuff are not capable of creating something epic. Just watch D4 cinematics ffs.

The one thing I'm annoyed about with the saga changes is the Nerubians being scrapped more or less after launch, I hope they make a come back with TLT.

Wait, that's actually valid reason to not expand Azj'Kahet stuff too much. Many expect Azjol'Nerub zone from Northrend - some people say too much Nerubians, but Trolls will (very likely) get content both in MD and TLT. So single undeground zone - Azjor Nerub + Old Kingdom + maybe some section for Iridikron lair won't be too much, especially if MD won't have underground stuff at all.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

Honestly I don't understand people's obsession with "testosterone oiled up guys fighting", we've had enough of that for years, it's almost so one dimensional.
I have no problem with it but it's honestly one of the reasons I stopped watching Asmon as well, all he talks about is the golden days and sweaty men fighting and shitting on retail. Sure it's bloated and needs a soft reset (coming after wss imo) but Blizzard is allowed to do different storylines as they see fit, and come on their budget hasn't been reduced, WSS cinematic with Anduin and Thrall was top tier and I'd be willing to bet Midnight is gonna totally surpass it.

Not shitting on you Magnificus just I don't see anything wrong with sentiment and a more nuanced story if WoWs gonna continue for another 20 years.

I think there just needs to be a better balance of the way they are telling the story.

Since DF i think they are focusing on "talking" too much, but not showing much, nothing really memorable that makes you want to come back to rewatch it.
Writing for main characters, voicelines aren't great either, so the bad unnatural convos are visible way more often.

Some side quests both counting DF and TWW had me feeling way more stuff, than almost anything they have produced for the main characters that story is build around, hell they made Alexstrasza queen of dragons boring in DF, here in TWW we have alleria one of the most badass rangers, having scenes like they just came out out of writing and acting school, because the script is poorly written.

Of course it's just my opinion.

[Monkal]

While I enjoyed TWW launch zones and factions I do think it needed the saga announcement to boost the health of the community.

The one thing I'm annoyed about with the saga changes is the Nerubians being scrapped more or less after launch, I hope they make a come back with TLT.

Oh this reminded me of something I was thinking yesterday while playing in Ahj'Kahet. Ansurek's mother is alive and being taken care of by the Weaver.

What if we see a nerubian unification in TLT with Ansurek's mom, the Weaver and a male rep from Azjol'Nerub as its leaders?

[13last]

I think there just needs to be a better balance of the way they are telling the story.

Since DF i think they are focusing on "talking" too much, but not showing much, nothing really memorable that makes you want to come back to rewatch it.
Writing for main characters, voicelines aren't great either, so the bad unnatural convos are visible way more often.

Some side quests both counting DF and TWW had me feeling way more stuff, than almost anything they have produced for the main characters that story is build around, hell they made Alexstrasza queen of dragons boring in DF, here in TWW we have alleria one of the most badass rangers, having scenes like they just came out out of writing and acting school, because the script is poorly written.

Of course it's just my opinion.

Oh don't get me wrong I'm with you in the overall sense that they can be doing a lot better. My perspective is that DF was not memorable and TWW seems like they shuffled plans around with WSS saga so I'm gonna see how Midnight plays out story wise. My wife's perspective as a casual gamer is that DF is so good story wise because it follows a pattern, there's cinematics that build on the story and it's just more enjoyable to her then previous expansions in terms of story and how its told.

I totally agree on Alleria, I just hope they do her justice, my argument is more I have no problem if they don't just singularly focus on men fighting as we've had so much of that but if the story calls for it I'm totally down for it.

Have to add that this is story wise, systems wise and modernization wise ever since DF it's been fantastic, I have a hard time finding a game with WoWs combat, it's really fluid.

[Khaza-R]

Oh this reminded me of something I was thinking yesterday while playing in Ahj'Kahet. Ansurek's mother is alive and being taken care of by the Weaver.

What if we see a nerubian unification in TLT with Ansurek's mom, the Weaver and a male rep from Azjol'Nerub as its leaders?

Shame we killed that one ancient, living Nerubian guy who escaped the War of the Spider in BfA for some measly azerite. Maybe they can give him redemption in TLT

[Paula Deen]

Something I am surprised hasn't happened yet, but with all the updates to 'it' I am sure 'its' coming....


Client Unification. Its a slam dunk. It makes it far easier to get someone to install the game if they are new. It offers the slight chance that someone gets curious and swaps over to Retail over Classic or Vice Versa. It also would just feel better overall to not have to load and unload the game.

[Marlamin]

Something I am surprised hasn't happened yet, but with all the updates to 'it' I am sure 'its' coming....


Client Unification. Its a slam dunk. It makes it far easier to get someone to install the game if they are new. It offers the slight chance that someone gets curious and swaps over to Retail over Classic or Vice Versa. It also would just feel better overall to not have to load and unload the game.

They are pretty close, most of the tech to support this is in place and newer Classic clients are closer to Mainline code-wise than any Classic clients before them, so it is only a matter of time/a bit of effort to get it across the finish. The 12.0 client should shed some light on whether or not they're going that way as that is the next major update, but I think they'll probably be able to do so by 12.x or 13.0 if they actually want to.

I wrote a bit about this here.

[Dracullus]

Something I am surprised hasn't happened yet, but with all the updates to 'it' I am sure 'its' coming....


Client Unification. Its a slam dunk. It makes it far easier to get someone to install the game if they are new. It offers the slight chance that someone gets curious and swaps over to Retail over Classic or Vice Versa. It also would just feel better overall to not have to load and unload the game.

Would be awesome, but there always should be option to install them separately. Kinda stupid to force vanilla people to download 100GB.

[Monkal]

Is there some announcement coming today?

[Marlamin]

Would be awesome, but there always should be option to install them separately. Kinda stupid to force vanilla people to download 100GB.

That is how it would work, they would not require Classic users to download Mainline, Mainline users to download SoD, etc.

Is there some announcement coming today?

I believe the secret finding thing is today.

[huth]

What could anyone have done against sargeras though? especially since the aspects were fractured/weakened too but even if not it still seemed helpless, and on the demon regeneration was argus their source of immortality or just a speedup for the process? i am unsure...

Argus was a massive speedup and removed the normal limitation of deaths in the Nether being final. Which is why none of the rest even really matters, as the Legion could have all that stuff back up and running with the same commanders in a matter of weeks or months (for a faction that was willing to wait ten millenia for a second shot at Azeroth, so basically nothing). The only significant victories in the whole Argus campaign were freeing the Titans and defeating Argus. The rest was irrelevant and would have had no lasting impact without those two.

[Paula Deen]

They are pretty close, most of the tech to support this is in place and newer Classic clients are closer to Mainline code-wise than any Classic clients before them, so it is only a matter of time/a bit of effort to get it across the finish. The 12.0 client should shed some light on whether or not they're going that way as that is the next major update, but I think they'll probably be able to do so by 12.x or 13.0 if they actually want to.

I wrote a bit about this here.

All the questions on the survey for Classic they sent out earlier this Summer make me question if they don't intend to take it a step further and actually integrate the different Classic Builds into the actual Retail space. People have always been able to go back to old stuff (Some guilds even run events where they stay at X level to clear Y raid), but I mean full on going to Westfall straight up sends you to Classic Westfall. I honestly have trouble grasping how the hell they could juggle that with the ability to solo farm old content, which they will not take away, but outside of mainly that caveat, I don't see how it would be an issue.

Not necessarily a question for you Marla, but does anyone remember; if you had a character that wasn't on Remix could you actually go to Pandaria and it would be a separate phase when Remix was live? Or did it just say you couldn't go?

[13last]

They are pretty close, most of the tech to support this is in place and newer Classic clients are closer to Mainline code-wise than any Classic clients before them, so it is only a matter of time/a bit of effort to get it across the finish. The 12.0 client should shed some light on whether or not they're going that way as that is the next major update, but I think they'll probably be able to do so by 12.x or 13.0 if they actually want to.

I wrote a bit about this here.

The mockups you did remind me of CoDs select screen for a sec, really cool how their tech has advanced, slowly but surely.

It's so fascinating reading about the engineering side of the game, I know they used to do engineering panels back in the day in blizzcon but they were never online, it'd be really cool to have them post a video about their advancements in tech.

[Paula Deen]

Would be awesome, but there always should be option to install them separately. Kinda stupid to force vanilla people to download 100GB.

Blizzard has already proven they can compress the client more. Remember it used to be like 200 something gigs way back when. They managed to get it down ever further.

I'd bet money they find new tech to get the number even lower.

[Marlamin]

All the questions on the survey for Classic they sent out earlier this Summer make me question if they don't intend to take it a step further and actually integrate the different Classic Builds into the actual Retail space. People have always been able to go back to old stuff (Some guilds even run events where they stay at X level to clear Y raid), but I mean full on going to Westfall straight up sends you to Classic Westfall. I honestly have trouble grasping how the hell they could juggle that with the ability to solo farm old content, which they will not take away, but outside of mainly that caveat, I don't see how it would be an issue.

They have their content layer system or whatever it is that they mentioned wanting to expand upon previously. That would be in line with some of the tech we've seen in the client, including the server being able to tell the client to load a specific data build without restarting or even reconnecting. The only thing that we have no sight of is how that would work on the server/gameplay side of things, but that is up to them to solve.

Not necessarily a question for you Marla, but does anyone remember; if you had a character that wasn't on Remix could you actually go to Pandaria and it would be a separate phase when Remix was live? Or did it just say you couldn't go?

Yep, just a phase. Other characters went to normal Pandaria. Remix characters could also escape Pandaria in various ways and would just be in the normal population, although this was actioned upon if abused.

The mockups you did remind me of CoDs select screen for a sec, really cool how their tech has advanced, slowly but surely.

It's so fascinating reading about the engineering side of the game, I know they used to do engineering panels back in the day in blizzcon but they were never online, it'd be really cool to have them post a video about their advancements in tech.

I agree, I really want the old style engineering panels back too. Even engineering blog posts I would love to have again. Gamescom has some developer panels coming up, but I doubt they'll be -that- kind of panel, but I did hear they are being recorded and hopefully posted later, so who knows. Other than that, maybe the upcoming BlizzCon even though it's still far away...

[Paula Deen]

The mockups you did remind me of CoDs select screen for a sec, really cool how their tech has advanced, slowly but surely.

It's so fascinating reading about the engineering side of the game, I know they used to do engineering panels back in the day in blizzcon but they were never online, it'd be really cool to have them post a video about their advancements in tech.

They still do the panels. They did them at the last Blizzcon. The info I gleaned from it was great. Especially in regards to the rapid loading/unloading for the world in TWW/Zaralek