Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Dracullus]

Btw does anyone remember, when did we get the NPC in Dragonflight that converted excess knowledge into acuity?

Around 10.1.5 I think. Looks like they just forgot, more people have to ask for it.

[Alanar]

You can just watch the patch trailer to see the majority of the raid ending cinematic.

Dark Heart is empowered, LW takes it but gets exploded by Xal, Alleria is wounded and can't get to Xal in time as she disappears with the empowered Dark Heart

Which lines up with the datamined conversation.

"Next time Gadget, next time"

[milkmustache]

The scene has heavy vibes that the song is made by Xal. If it is true, it also begs the question if the song we heared on Azeroth is not also faked.

Huh. Imagine our Worldsoul has been unable to communicate this whole time, and it's just been Xal'atath speaking to Magni, etc. She's in containment by the Titans afterall.

[Vakir]

The scene has heavy vibes that the song is made by Xal. If it is true, it also begs the question if the song we heared on Azeroth is not also faked.

...are you still doing this?

The subtitles flat out say it's Azeroth.

Hell, certain third person omniscient texts and buffs/debuffs confirm it's Azeroth.

[13last]

Huh. Imagine our Worldsoul has been unable to communicate this whole time, and it's just been Xal'atath speaking to Magni, etc. She's in containment by the Titans afterall.

Honestly it's such a mystery that I want resolved. Do I think Xal'atath faked the Soul Scribe worldsoul scene? 100%, but she does also say both Soul Scribe and K'aresh are to weak to hear each other, and Magni also heard Azeroth and he mentioned to hearing Argus but it sounded different then Azeroth, could Argus worldsoul have been Fel infused and maybe K'aresh is void infused?

Magni and the whole Azerite powers and whatnot makes me think Azeroth is fine/neutral for now?

[whoisqnx]

Im not sure if Ethereals will be playable but I can see Haranir being added once we get to Last Titan.
Eonar herself could recruit them while thanking the Haranir for protecting Elun'ahir's roots but now asking them to take up arms againts Amanthul.
A war within the Pantheon itself.

[Sondrelk]

The K'aresh World Soul still being alive seems a definite going by the ending of the dungeon I would say. Especially now that I went back just to check, and the final room of the dungeon replaces the purple swirl in the middle of the planet with a white glow after you defeat the final boss.

[blaatschaap]

I've never been more convinced of anything than playable ethereals. Maybe available immediately after gamescom reveal opens up preorders for midnight, but doubt that. Locking down my prediction for them being available with 11.2.5 with preorders

[Cheezits]

The K'aresh World Soul still being alive seems a definite going by the ending of the dungeon I would say. Especially now that I went back just to check, and the final room of the dungeon replaces the purple swirl in the middle of the planet with a white glow after you defeat the final boss.

Isn't the white glow in that room the whole time?

[Makorus]

I mean, hey, we still have the Worldsoul Consumption spell for Xalatath they added.



So Karesh might be alive but for not much longer.

[rainhard]

Huh. Imagine our Worldsoul has been unable to communicate this whole time, and it's just been Xal'atath speaking to Magni, etc. She's in containment by the Titans afterall.

Actually since Magni was the only one unable to talk to azeroth during all this harbringer stuff it is safe to say magni had a secure line to azeroth which was cut in TWW while the rest of us are just receiving anonymous messages roleplaying as azeroth, the only exception to the vague messages is perhaps orwenna who seems to mirror the soulscribes in worldsoul communion making it also exploitable.

Bassicaly the only certain time we heard of azeroth was during that ringing deeps cutscene.

[Enrif]

I mean, we know Azeroth is around and is okay with what we do, seeing how she literally infused the new Earthen with... Azeroth-powers?

That happend due to Magni being there. Without Magni, no Earthen with Azerite powers.

Huh. Imagine our Worldsoul has been unable to communicate this whole time, and it's just been Xal'atath speaking to Magni, etc. She's in containment by the Titans afterall.

It would be a twist but fitting, as things about the radiant song were simply not making sense.

...are you still doing this?

The subtitles flat out say it's Azeroth.

Hell, certain third person omniscient texts and buffs/debuffs confirm it's Azeroth.

Ah yes, let's reveal the twist in the very first scene of the saga. Ever heared of a plot twist? something that only works if until then everything else was made sure not to reveal the twists.

Subtitles, names in buffs, shouldn't spoil that.

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Actually since Magni was the only one unable to talk to azeroth during all this harbringer stuff it is safe to say magni had a secure line to azeroth which was cut in TWW while the rest of us are just receiving anonymous messages roleplaying as azeroth, the only exception to the vague messages is perhaps orwenna who seems to mirror the soulscribes in worldsoul communion making it also exploitable.

Bassicaly the only certain time we heard of azeroth was during that ringing deeps cutscene.

yeah, Magni was key for the new earthen and them gaining azerite racial powers. But outside of that, can we be sure everything else was actually Azeroth? Cutting off the speaker, but broadcasting it to others?

I think, cutting off the speaker is something a imposter would do.

[13last]

It would be a twist but fitting, as things about the radiant song were simply not making sense.

What rainhard said makes sense honestly, I think Azeroth was talking to Magni and considering he couldn't hear her no more in TWW but all of the sudden a bunch of people started hearing the Radiant Song makes me believe that Xal'atath is fooling everyone, same as she fooled the Ravel and Locust Walker, during the 3 audio logs/whispers of Karesh, we are led to believe that LWs obsession with the whispers wasn't benevolent, at least not fully.

So much to unpack, but I'm willing to bet that we get to hear K'aresh's worldsoul after we defeated Dimensius, or some attempt to communicate with them, especially since Venari has the dagger in her hand in the epilogue as well.

[Makorus]

That happend due to Magni being there. Without Magni, no Earthen with Azerite powers.



It would be a twist but fitting, as things about the radiant song were simply not making sense.



Ah yes, let's reveal the twist in the very first scene of the saga. Ever heared of a plot twist? something that only works if until then everything else was made sure not to reveal the twists.

Subtitles, names in buffs, shouldn't spoil that.

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yeah, Magni was key for the new earthen and them gaining azerite racial powers. But outside of that, can we be sure everything else was actually Azeroth? Cutting off the speaker, but broadcasting it to others?

I think, cutting off the speaker is something a imposter would do.

So... this being that pretends to be the World Soul is somehow able to make Magni lose his Speaker Form, which was thought to be impossible, and also decides to imbue every new Earthen with Azerite... because... ?

That's also disregarding the fact that Magni DID hear Azeroth at the start of the expanse, which is the whole reason we are going to Khaz Algar to begin with, and he says he recognises her voice, so it's not someone pretending.

It would also be a shitty twist because literally nothing is hinting at it in the slightest and kind of makes no sense for why we would be called to Khaz Algar by a fake because no one really benefitted from us being there, other than the Nerubians getting rid of their Queen, and the goblins.

Can't be Xalatath, because us being there made it way harder for her, Titans are the status quo anyway so there is nothing to gain from them, and we don't really do anything with the Light.

[Vakir]

Ah yes, let's reveal the twist in the very first scene of the saga. Ever heared of a plot twist? something that only works if until then everything else was made sure not to reveal the twists.

Subtitles, names in buffs, shouldn't spoil that.

But plot twists require verisimilitude with information we're given. An actually well executed plot twist will not actively lie in terms of information given to the reader/player/whatever, they'll either obfuscate in a clever way or mislead in the context of something in-universe.

I can make the argument for any ridiculous twist with that same logic because it works backwards. Anduin is a 20,000 year old lizard person that secretly wants to destroy Azeroth. We've literally read bios about him, seen him in Tiffin's arms as a baby, watched him grow up, and we have in universe evidence that he means what he says and does.

But obviously all of that is to avoid spoiling the plot twist. I mean, duh, right? Same way that Velen since Legion has actually been Hogger in an extremely convincing suit.

Seriously, if they wanted to go that route, they simply could have not labeled an out of universe description of where the Radiant Song came from in the first place. If it randomly gets contradicted later, it's just another example of there being no consistency or cohesion when this entire saga is with the intention of restoring at least some good faith in WoW's lore.

If I can just do whatever the fuck I want without it geling with information given, absolutely nothing matters. An exception is in universe - K'aresh being absolutely gone, rather than the world soul being somewhat alive with the new information, for example, was told to us primarily by fallible NPCs.

It's not just Magni telling us it's Azeroth. The literal game does. (Also a huge PR fallout of lying specifically to people with hearing impairments would be hilarious)

[milkmustache]

But plot twists require verisimilitude with information we're given. An actually well executed plot twist will not actively lie in terms of information given to the reader/player/whatever, they'll either obfuscate in a clever way or mislead in the context of something in-universe.

I can make the argument for any ridiculous twist with that same logic because it works backwards. Anduin is a 20,000 year old lizard person that secretly wants to destroy Azeroth. We've literally read bios about him, seen him in Tiffin's arms as a baby, watched him grow up, and we have in universe evidence that he means what he says and does.

But obviously all of that is to avoid spoiling the plot twist. I mean, duh, right? Same way that Velen since Legion has actually been Hogger in an extremely convincing suit.

Seriously, if they wanted to go that route, they simply could have not labeled an out of universe description of where the Radiant Song came from in the first place. If it randomly gets contradicted later, it's just another example of there being no consistency or cohesion when this entire saga is with the intention of restoring at least some good faith in WoW's lore.

If I can just do whatever the fuck I want without it geling with information given, absolutely nothing matters. An exception is in universe - K'aresh being absolutely gone, rather than the world soul being somewhat alive with the new information, for example, was told to us primarily by fallible NPCs.

It's not just Magni telling us it's Azeroth. The literal game does. (Also a huge PR fallout of lying specifically to people with hearing impairments would be hilarious)

I... don't understand your argument. You're saying that a plot twist of Xal'atath manipulating us with the Radiant Song, messages from Azeroth, etc., is impossible because... there was subtitles?

I'm not fully convinced Xal = Radiant Song, but I don't think it's as ridiculous an idea as you're making it out to be.

--

Unrelated, but there's a shot from the presumed end of raid cinematic where it feels clear that Xal'atath is speaking to Alleria in her mind after disappearing. Alleria's look is a bit more dreadful than usual. Do we think she'll make mention of the Sunwell, Quel'thalas, etc?

[Enrif]

So... this being that pretends to be the World Soul is somehow able to make Magni lose his Speaker Form, which was thought to be impossible, and also decides to imbue every new Earthen with Azerite... because... ?

Whose to say that there are not to voices? One, that Magni hears, the real Azeroth, and one everyone else hears?

That's also disregarding the fact that Magni DID hear Azeroth at the start of the expanse, which is the whole reason we are going to Khaz Algar to begin with, and he says he recognises her voice, so it's not someone pretending.

Magni WASNT hearing her voice. Only after we visited magni and we help him commmunicate, did he... get knocked out cold and was barely alive. Someone tampered with the line, and it backfired on Magni

It would also be a shitty twist because literally nothing is hinting at it in the slightest and kind of makes no sense for why we would be called to Khaz Algar by a fake because no one really benefitted from us being there, other than the Nerubians getting rid of their Queen, and the goblins.

Xal'atath still gets what she wants, but it was made way harder, Titans are the status quo anyway so there is nothing to gain from them, and we don't really do anything with the Light.

We got a lot of hints. The most recent one: Xal and Soul-Scribe, before that the Audio Novel that had Locus-Walker hear a voice, before that Anduin heared the song when seeing Beledar (which was later tampered with by Xal, gee, wonder why).

- - - Updated - - -

But plot twists require verisimilitude with information we're given. An actually well executed plot twist will not actively lie in terms of information given to the reader/player/whatever, they'll either obfuscate in a clever way or mislead in the context of something in-universe.

I can make the argument for any ridiculous twist with that same logic because it works backwards. Anduin is a 20,000 year old lizard person that secretly wants to destroy Azeroth. We've literally read bios about him, seen him in Tiffin's arms as a baby, watched him grow up, and we have in universe evidence that he means what he says and does.

But obviously all of that is to avoid spoiling the plot twist. I mean, duh, right? Same way that Velen since Legion has actually been Hogger in an extremely convincing suit.

Seriously, if they wanted to go that route, they simply could have not labeled an out of universe description of where the Radiant Song came from in the first place. If it randomly gets contradicted later, it's just another example of there being no consistency or cohesion when this entire saga is with the intention of restoring at least some good faith in WoW's lore.

If I can just do whatever the fuck I want without it geling with information given, absolutely nothing matters. An exception is in universe - K'aresh being absolutely gone, rather than the world soul being somewhat alive with the new information, for example, was told to us primarily by fallible NPCs.

It's not just Magni telling us it's Azeroth. The literal game does. (Also a huge PR fallout of lying specifically to people with hearing impairments would be hilarious)

Sorry, you're not making any sense. We have hints that something is odd with the song since before TWW started in the scene that knocked out Magni.

[Kilpi]

Hardly a short term problem when you would realistically wait decades just for Northern EK to be updated, and several times that when you consider all of EK and Kalimdor. Longer than the rest of the game has been online.

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I would say that Midnight is either a fully separate instance that will never connect. Or it's a revamp of Northern EK. Maybe a separate instance, but at least one with a realistic chance of being part of a greater revamped EK.

I'm still convinced they've been updating/revamping old Azeroth for a long time now, and they're just gonna release it at some point in an expansion. Might be it's only after TLT, but who knows. They've already had a separate team to develop housing, they could just as well have a moderate sized team work on EK and Kalimdor and not have an effect on expansion features.

Somehow I feel it's gonna be the expansion after TLT because it could then "soft reboot" the world to a new state. The problem with this is though, that if "world soul saga" is a relatively new concept, they might've started rebuilding old world before and would have to redo some stuff to take in to consideration how TLT ends.

But the bottom line is, when they revamp the old world, it's not gonna be done how Cataclysm was done, but as a separate thing.

[Makorus]

Magni WASNT hearing her voice. Only after we visited magni and we help him commmunicate, did he... get knocked out cold and was barely alive. Someone tampered with the line, and it backfired on Magni

???



And we know why he passed out:

Well, that was quite the nap. I wasn't expecting Azeroth to be so... loud. To normal folk, she's gently calling out. But with our connection, it felt like she was screaming. Directly into my crystal noggin.

So unless you are saying that Magni just... completely forgot how Azeroth sounds, I doubt that is it.

We got a lot of hints. The most recent one: Xal and Soul-Scribe, before that the Audio Novel that had Locus-Walker hear a voice, before that Anduin heared the song when seeing Beledar (which was later tampered with by Xal, gee, wonder why).

Yeah and Xalatath literally had to cast some weird spell on Soul-Scribe to make her hear stuff, which is not happening to anyone who heard the Radiant Song.

And yeah, it's because the Beledar is a calcified chunk of Azeroth which we have known since 11.0



That's also, literally, what the Siren Isle is about.

[13last]

???



So unless you are saying that Magni just... completely forgot how Azeroth sounds, I doubt that is it.



Yeah and Xalatath literally had to cast some weird spell on Soul-Scribe to make her hear stuff, which is not happening.

And yeah, it's because the Beledar is a calcified chunk of Azeroth which we have known since 11.0

I don't think this necessarily means much, we know when the radiant song started Magni could not hear it. He stated he hasn't heard Azeroth for several years. Only after we went and "helped" him he started hearing it (which is your pic). Xal could have easily manipulated him as easily as she does the Soul Scribe.

Imo pre radiant song Azeroth was indeed talking to Magni (he even says he can hear Argus but it sounds different then Azeroth). I believe Xal'atath is causing the radiant song, heck the whispers of Karesh/audio log even hints that the voice the Ravel hear isn't fully benevolent (truth with lies, very Xal to me). In Metzens interview in wowcast 11 months ago he says she's a different type of manipulator.

What is your take/anyone's take if you don't believe Xal is causing radiant song?