Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[huth]

They made deepholme a decade ago

I'm high did I say the right zone I literally don't know

The cataclysm one

Deepholme is nothing like Zaralek. It's just a funky skybox with tall walls. Zaralek has an actual ceiling you can reach.

Meanwhile, K'aresh has absolutely no regular ground and you can fly below all of the "landmasses". I'm not sure they've done that before.

[Vakir]

I know this is more about the tech but Deepholme was also like mainlining Ambien in terms of how bland and boring it was compared to Zaralek in scale and layout.

Siren Isle is absolutely, transparently reused BFA content in terms of layout beyond just assets, but it's insane to me someone would not see the massive jump in scale and transportation required for these two zones to think they're reused.

Did you think we were going to normal mount through Undermine, people? It would be unthinkable. Even normal flying K'aresh would be a nightmare.

[KyleEverett]

Sooo, we have another "Crystal" letting voices give buffs. This one is arcane based which fits a future Titan Artificer themed class.

Combined with the OC91 Chariot's power of the Titans increasing the reflexes and the abilities of the pilot, the Siren's Isle Crystal's song giving inspiration to people who hear it that gives clarity to ideas, the Arathi who said hymns in the Empire are known to give power, and more, I'm still convinced that TLT will introduce a Titan Artificer class created by Dagran.

[The-Shan]

I think they turned up sharding to the max due to the lag US was experiencing on launch.

It's possible they also turned up the sharding to keep it feeling lonely/empty, since thats the theme/ambience of the zone. If I saw a gazillion people running around K'aresh, it'd probably ruin the vibe for me honestly, it'd strip away that lonely feeling.

[Makorus]

Oh yeah, because people were asking yesterday, and I just redid the fight because they enabled the achievement.

Her body shows up as dead rather than unconcious, and Brann says this:



So it's ambiguous whether we kill her.

[Enrif]

The patch is a weird one for me. The zone feels empty and not particularly interesting. Yes, it's a destroyed world but Argus felt better than this imo.
It's also a bit odd that there are more Brokers than Ethereals, or is it just my imagination?

Maybe I just expected more idk but so far I've not been impressed. All the bugs also don't help, don't think Undermine was this bad.

From a story point of view
Argus: headquarters of the legion, engine that made the demons come back that much faster, home to the commanders of the legion
K‘aresh: destroyed world, surviving ethereals


It makes sense that k‘aresh feels more barren, as it was destroyed, while Argus was actually only damaged but not destroyed

[Super Dickmann]

First impressions just regarding zones is that K'aresh handles its scale much better than Argus, both due to the difference in map design and also because since K'aresh is almost entirely out of left field it doesn't overlap aesthetically with anything else in the expansion. By the time we reached the two separate black and green wastelands of Argus we'd been through multiple sub-zones and one full area of black and green wastelands.

[Makorus]

Argus was three tiny zones that seemed bigger than they were because of no flying.

Krokuun was a hallway, Eredath was actually quite good and Antoran Waste had awful map design making it seem bigger than it is.

[Nymrohd]

First impressions just regarding zones is that K'aresh handles its scale much better than Argus, both due to the difference in map design and also because since K'aresh is almost entirely out of left field it doesn't overlap aesthetically with anything else in the expansion. By the time we reached the two separate black and green wastelands of Argus we'd been through multiple sub-zones and one full area of black and green wastelands.

I think it really helps that we can naturally move between the zones. So it doesn't sacrifice gameplay just to create a visual effect.

[Sondrelk]

I dunno. I like K'aresh visually, and the story there is pretty decent. I just think it's a tad too desolate to really hold my interest for long. The eco domes are a bit too samey, and there isnt really anywhere that feels grand in the way Eredath felt grand.
In many ways it's kinda like Nazjatar in that it feels like we are on the outskirts of the actual interesting place.

I would absolutely buy that this was a rush job replacement for whatever the actual ending to TWW was supposed to be. Because it really feels like a first draft hurriedly given a bit of polishing, rather than a zone made with lots of care and attention to the small details.

[Makorus]

I dunno. I like K'aresh visually, and the story there is pretty decent. I just think it's a tad too desolate to really hold my interest for long. The eco domes are a bit too samey, and there isnt really anywhere that feels grand in the way Eredath felt grand.
In many ways it's kinda like Nazjatar in that it feels like we are on the outskirts of the actual interesting place.

I would absolutely buy that this was a rush job replacement for whatever the actual ending to TWW was supposed to be. Because it really feels like a first draft hurriedly given a bit of polishing, rather than a zone made with lots of care and attention to the small details.

Oh, don't get me wrong, it's definitely a rush job zone, and it's not like we didn't have that in Legion, except there it was Broken Shore being bad and Argus being good so it's not as noticable. This time, Undermine had a lot of care put into it, while Karesh suffered.

[Super Dickmann]

Argus was three tiny zones that seemed bigger than they were because of no flying.

Krokuun was a hallway, Eredath was actually quite good and Antoran Waste had awful map design making it seem bigger than it is.

Outside of its terrible passability and recycled appearance Antoran Wastes committed the cardinal sin by being obviously intended at some stage to be a sci-fi fighter base or industrial landscape, but the budget couldn't do it so it was just yet another black and green waste.

[Makorus]

Outside of its terrible passability and recycled appearance Antoran Wastes committed the cardinal sin by being obviously intended at some stage to be a sci-fi fighter base or industrial landscape, but the budget couldn't do it so it was just yet another black and green waste.

Yeah, Antoran Waste is so obviously a case of "oh shit, we ran out of time uuuhhhhhhhhhhh throw some rares everywhere".

Honestly haven't done the Argus questline since it came out, did it even have quests?

[Super Dickmann]

I think it really helps that we can naturally move between the zones. So it doesn't sacrifice gameplay just to create a visual effect.

In that vein it also helps that despite the means by which the plot pivots to K'aresh can most charitably be described as 'strained' as compared to how naturally Tomb of Sargeras led into Argus, the actual operation of the zone, the safehouse and the scale of the enemy force makes far more sense than one ship moving with little issue across the Legion's capital world, which the Legion for some reason didn't fully control.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, Antoran Waste is so obviously a case of "oh shit, we ran out of time uuuhhhhhhhhhhh throw some rares everywhere".

Honestly haven't done the Argus questline since it came out, did it even have quests?

It had that rare with that weirdly involved pet questline with the draenei kid. It also had some world quests. That's about it.

[Harpymeat]

how is that a noob trap? If anything it would make things easer.

Want to tank? take plate
Want to heal? take mail
Want to dps with weapons? take leather
Want to dps with magic? take cloth

That is very straight forward and easy to understand.

It would also open up things like, tanks and healers using dps pieces when doing solo stuff without the need to swap to a different spec. It would also change PvP drastically, as tanks could be better at dealing damage or dps being tougher.

Do you ever think about just committing to a different game more suited to you instead of endlessly throwing out ideas for how to completely ruin this one?

- - - Updated - - -

It's possible they also turned up the sharding to keep it feeling lonely/empty, since thats the theme/ambience of the zone. If I saw a gazillion people running around K'aresh, it'd probably ruin the vibe for me honestly, it'd strip away that lonely feeling.

lol no, they did it for performance, not to arbitrarily make the brand new patch zone feel dead for *vibes*

[Nymrohd]

I dunno. I like K'aresh visually, and the story there is pretty decent. I just think it's a tad too desolate to really hold my interest for long. The eco domes are a bit too samey, and there isnt really anywhere that feels grand in the way Eredath felt grand.
In many ways it's kinda like Nazjatar in that it feels like we are on the outskirts of the actual interesting place.

I would absolutely buy that this was a rush job replacement for whatever the actual ending to TWW was supposed to be. Because it really feels like a first draft hurriedly given a bit of polishing, rather than a zone made with lots of care and attention to the small details.

K'aresh needs double the mob density and triple the rares. Especially given that zone size is effectively doubled up by Untethered Space.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

I resubbed but i hardly feel any excitement to play much after i did the available story chapters on k'aresh, phase diving aint that interesting. plenty of bugs.

I think that i have my excitement "reserved" for the Midnight reveals and upcoming Legion remix, that makes this last big patch feel very bland in comparison.

[Lady Atia]

Sooo, we have another "Crystal" letting voices give buffs. This one is arcane based which fits a future Titan Artificer themed class.

Combined with the OC91 Chariot's power of the Titans increasing the reflexes and the abilities of the pilot, the Siren's Isle Crystal's song giving inspiration to people who hear it that gives clarity to ideas, the Arathi who said hymns in the Empire are known to give power, and more, I'm still convinced that TLT will introduce a Titan Artificer class created by Dagran.

I mean, if anything, all the new sound and song based stuff is clearly meant to setup a unique version of Bard for WoW that's based on the radiant song of Azeroth herself.

[micwini]

What should have been:

BFA:
8.0 Kul Tiras + Zandalar
Ghuun final boss

8.1 Crestfall + Zul'dare
Final boss: Horde V Alliance fleet battle. With Jaina as the actual boss (retreats at 5% like in BFA)

8.2 Undermine
Final boss: Gallywix

8.3 Hiji + Tel'abim (Jinyu + Hozen allied race)
Rastakhan final boss in Zandalar. No scuffed alliance retreat which means mekkatorque isnt mortally wounded so we can skip Mechagon.
Alliance naval superiority means Horde suffers a major blow in 4th war. No peace. No siege of orgrimmar 2.0 and no kumbaya. Horde on the run.

Note: All throughout this expansion, Sylvanas does questionable stuff as Warchief. After losing the war, the other Horde leaders blame her for the loss, accusing her of sometimes intentionally sending troops to their death to raise additional forsaken. They take away her warchief status and give it back to Thrall. Seeing as they've just lost a major war, they still need eachother, so the Forsaken are still allowed to remain within the horde.


Nazjatar expansion instead of SL. Alliance ships chasing horde -> Entry to Nazjatar goes as in original 8.2. Including the bringing along of Xal dagger.
9.0 Nazjatar (continent sized, multiple zones, no Zin-Aszhari yet)
OG naga character final boss (go wild)

9.1 Balor + Abyssal maw (underwater) raid
Ozumat controlled Neptulon final boss (not killed)


9.2 Zin Azshari (partly underwater zone)
Azshara final boss (doesn't die like in BFA).

Note: Xal gains body during this expansion. Due to circumstances Alliance and Horde forced to work together once more. At the end a tenuous pact is reached, but no all out peace. Internal disagreements in Alliance about this pact instead of finishing off Horde.

10.0 Dragonflight: Unfolds mostly as it went, altho instead of Dragonscale expedition the Horde vs Alliance aspect here is Explorers league vs Reliquary. But mostly still focused on exploration, dragon aspects and incarnates.
Raszageth final boss

11.1 Zaralek Cavern
Sarkareth final boss

11.2 Vakthros (interior + some kind of frosty realm)
Fyrakk final boss

Prologue: Dalaran destroyed by Xal without help of Nerubians. Panic instead caused by violent infighting, due to panic through closeness to Ny'alotha.
11.0 Khaz Algar (Undersea instead of Azj Kahet as 4th zone. Fully underwater 'skyriding'). Khaz Algar has a different place on the map (closer to Eastern Kingdoms)
Ozumat final boss (in the Undersea)

10.1 Rootlands (Emerald Dream foreshadowing)
OG massive plant creature final boss (go wild)

10.2 Ny'Alotha
N'zoth final boss

Note: As the creator of the Nightmare, N'zoths death triggered something in the Nightmare/dream, leading us to the next expansion.

11.0 Emerald Dream
OG cosmic life character (go wild)

11.1 Shadowlands (1 zone, could be a mix of all 4, just 1 of them, take your pick. Includes Tazavesh as hub. Ethereal/Broker connection discovered)
Zovaal final boss (no weird "I planned everything that ever happened shenanigans". Just a prisoner turned boss in his own realm. Hinted that deal with Sylvanas was made, but nothing came of it. No direct connection to Lich King or Kelthuzad)

11.2 K'aresh (same as current)
Dimensius final boss <-- we are here.

Note: This expansion basically goes: We fuck up life realm -> death realm gets stronger and sees its chance -> Death realm needs to be fucked up -> Void sees its chance with death weakened

[Holdodlig]

The Siren Isle part is absolutely correct at a minimum. If I remember correctly the map file for it has been in the game since BfA.
(Unless I am getting different things mixed up)

Siren Isle was meant to be an Island Exploration. There's another one in the Jungle with some tech doodads but I can't find any screenshot of that and it was replaced by the pandaren island in order to match the reused zones of 8.3.

Seems unlikely that Undermine and K'aresh are cut content tho they seems to follow the same theme in TWW, which are tech races.