Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Paula Deen]

Please. Stop this.

You can though?

[Throren]

You can though?

You do realize the ingame world is massively scaled down in lore - lore wise nothing from Khaz Modan would be visible from Red ridge; heck Razor Hill is only 10 seconds away from Orgrimmar in game, but lorewise its almost a fully day's journey away

Even the tallest buildings that exist IRL arent visible once you're a couple dozen miles away from them

Also why would they even mention Northeron in the same section as the Bastion of Twilight if it supposedly was so far away that it could be literally anywhere on the EK? It's mentioned there specifically cause its within the vicinity of it and within eyeshot of the tower lorewise

[Hitei]

You can though?

I know that you do not genuinely believe in-game render distance of structures is actually an argument for where things can be located. You are not that foolish. I know you are also not foolish enough to believe the giant atmosphere-piercing space sword used by the planet sized titan is somehow a similar circumstance to a large floating tower.

[The-Shan]

What is "that spot"? The Location where Zul'Aman is? Or Northern Lordaeron?

The spot people keep calling Northeron, but it doesn't have a name. All we know is that it is implied it is linked to Stratholme. Anything could be there though, and since it's an open zone spot without much defined information. Two places can't be called Northeron, or they shouldn't be, so I'm less concerned about the name and more the fact that I believe the fourth zone will be there.

There is some fun speculation to ponder what might be there, though... Should they choose to use the area. (Which I think they will)

[Hitei]

The spot people keep calling Northeron

Again, this has not ever been Northeron (even the old Quel'thalas Northeron, which was on the opposite side of QT). That is what is traditionally called "Northern Lordaeron". People calling it "Northeron" are just confused, not because of changes or what is happening in canon, but because they are conflating "North + eron" with north Lordaeron.

[The-Shan]

Again, this has not ever been Northeron (even the old Quel'thalas Northeron, which was on the opposite side of QT). That is what is traditionally called "Northern Lordaeron". People calling it "Northeron" are just confused, not because of changes or what is happening in canon, but because they are conflating "North + eron" with north Lordaeron.

I didn't call it Northeron, please read the rest of my post. I am agreeing with you. We just need to drop the name Northeron and talk about what might actually be in the area...

[Paula Deen]

I know that you do not genuinely believe in-game render distance of structures is actually an argument for where things can be located. You are not that foolish. I know you are also not foolish enough to believe the giant atmosphere-piercing space sword used by the planet sized titan is somehow a similar circumstance to a large floating tower.

Fair /10ch

[Paula Deen]

I didn't call it Northeron, please read the rest of my post. I am agreeing with you. We just need to drop the name Northeron and talk about what might actually be in the area...

North of Stratholme is Elf shit.
East of Zul'Aman is Troll shit.

Seems reasonable enough.

[Hitei]

I didn't call it Northeron, please read the rest of my post. I am agreeing with you. We just need to drop the name Northeron and talk about what might actually be in the area...

It was how this whole iteration of the debate started:

This actually isn't bad, but I'd prefer it if Quel'danas was a patch zone, and they throw in Northeron for some dwarf/human/undead themes to mix things up a bit. 2 elf zones, 1 troll zone in zul'aman, and 1 human-dwarf-undead zone

I am being particular, and pointed it out in the first place, because every time someone does this, the discussion gets even more muddled; because people become even more confused about what Northeron even is and what is actually being argued.



It is already a mess arguing about whether or not there is a chance they move Northeron from 1 (it's canon location) to 2 (the pre-wow concept location), without the entire unrelated confusion of talking about 3, Northern Lordaeron, an area which has nothing to do with Northeron or the argument. This isn't me trying to make you drop the name "Northeron" on principle because I think it should stay somewhere else, it's me trying to make sure people understand clearly that 3 has not ever been Northeron. It's some whole other place that has never been in the running to be Northeron.

It is an unrelated zone whose name people confuse because they hear "Northeron" and think "oh that must be related to Lordaeron but like north"

[Nymrohd]

I like to call that area Stratholme Bay cause Stratholme clearly is meant to be a port or at least to have a nearby seaport connected to it. And that area is adjacent to most major Scarlet Crusade holdings, starting just east of Scarlet Monastery, directly north of Hearthglen and right on the west of the part of Stratholme that the Crusade originally held and somehow supplied and supported. It should still not be that large of an area though.

As for Northeron there was always some confusion about its location. It should be the Twilight Highlands after all the main thing we know about it is that it is a major Wildhammer dwarf location and Twilight Highlands is clearly not the original name. But the general confusion of Aerie Peak being in the Hinterlands (a zone whose location never made much sense imo) has made fans wonder forever if Northeron might be in Lordaeron and be a second Wildhammer location, possibly close to Aerie Peak. With the northern coast of Lordaeron also being unexplored, confusing them makes a little bit of sense (though not much).

Imo Northeron probably is the upper half of Twilight Highlands, north of the Verall where Thundermar and Kirthhaven are located.

[Padwarle]

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if they have two versions of Quel'thalas. As in, the old TBC version untouched, and the new Midnight version an actual part of the EK. I feel like trying to do something like Arathi/Darkshore would be more trouble then it's worth.

[The-Shan]

It was how this whole iteration of the debate started:


I am being particular, and pointed it out in the first place, because every time someone does this, the discussion gets even more muddled; because people become even more confused about what Northeron even is and what is actually being argued.



It is already a mess arguing about whether or not there is a chance they move Northeron from 1 (it's canon location) to 2 (the pre-wow concept location), without the entire unrelated confusion of talking about 3, Northern Lordaeron, an area which has nothing to do with Northeron or the argument. This isn't me trying to make you drop the name "Northeron" on principle because I think it should stay somewhere else, it's me trying to make sure people understand clearly that 3 has not ever been Northeron. It's some whole other place that has never been in the running to be Northeron.

It is an unrelated zone whose name people confuse because they hear "Northeron" and think "oh that must be related to Lordaeron but like north"

And I'm agreeing with you, I misspoke and corrected myself, and I am simply much more interested in thinking about what is west of ghostlands and North west of Eastern Plaguelands. Call it Northern Lordaeron, call it 'North of Stratholme', the label has no consequence until Blizzard gives it to it, why are we barking the same thing at each other?

[Joszef Kiprich]

In my birth province two towns are called Serooskerke and they are a 15 minutes drive away from each other.

But this Northeron back and forth is getting a bit tiresome.

[Nymrohd]

And I'm agreeing with you, I misspoke and corrected myself, and I am simply much more interested in thinking about what is west of ghostlands and North west of Eastern Plaguelands. Call it Northern Lordaeron, call it 'North of Stratholme', the label has no consequence until Blizzard gives it to it, why are we barking the same thing at each other?

Also in any case where Quel'thalas is joined to the rest of the continent, these areas will have to be included. And while the area on the east coast of EPL can just be empty mountains, leading to the Amani (though Zul'Mashar should be connected to the rest of the Amani imo, at least by a mountain trail) the area northwest of Stratholme will need some work cause anyone who has visited knows it is just a working space with uninstanced Stratholme areas.

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In my birth province two towns are called Serooskerke and they are a 15 minutes drive away from each other.

But this Northeron back and forth is getting a bit tiresome.

I blame Futurama. Everyone is obsessed with being technically correct these days. If you are not a chartered accountant or don't work for the revenue service, that does NOT apply!

[Hitei]

why are we barking the same thing at each other?

Because it was not immediately apparently that you understood what I was trying to point out, since you initially continued to treat location 3 as though it were the alternate possible location of Northeron:

it's an open zone spot without much defined information. Two places can't be called Northeron, or they shouldn't be, so I'm less concerned about the name and more the fact that I believe the fourth zone will be there.

So I pressed the issue. But I understand that you understand now and apologize for repeating myself.

[The-Shan]

Also in any case where Quel'thalas is joined to the rest of the continent, these areas will have to be included. And while the area on the east coast of EPL can just be empty mountains, leading to the Amani (though Zul'Mashar should be connected to the rest of the Amani imo, at least by a mountain trail) the area northwest of Stratholme will need some work cause anyone who has visited knows it is just a working space with uninstanced Stratholme areas.

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I blame Futurama. Everyone is obsessed with being technically correct these days. If you are not a chartered accountant or don't work for the revenue service, that does NOT apply!

I did a mock up in photoshop then told chatGPT to make it look like the WoW map art style and it looks okay. I think this is a pretty believable setup. It'd be cool to see Zul'Mashar, I just hope they don't get too into the weeds and feel like they have to include EPL/all of north EK, I want a super detailed Eversong, Ghostlands, Northern Lordaeron and Zul'aman.

For Zul Aman, I want it to include the Maisara Hills, the original city on the border, and a coast that explores what the old RPGs says are there, and ideally keeps the Amani friendly.

For Northern Lordaeron, I'd like to see the Red Dawn/Scarlet Conspiracy (with Calia's alleged heir) since I think that plot merits exploration. It'd give Turalyon/Arator something interesting to do. Don't really care much for Calia, though it'd probably have to involve her. It could also tell us about how Stratholme's doing, since we saw it in Chronicle, and apparently people are trying to live there again. We could also see some Forsaken content there, which could be nice! I could even see some High Elf refuges/a lodge being there potentially.

As far as Eversong and Ghostlands go, I'm not certain I want to speculate on those, since the events of the opening will seriously impact them, so imagining how Blizzard will open the expansion is challenging. That said... I'm hoping Silvermoon is the capital, where we have a view out on Quel'danas being void-plagued like we had with Dalaran looking upon the Broken Shore.

As far as Ghostlands goes, I'd like to see how resettling the area is going with the Sin'dorei fighting back the Scourge and reclaiming the frontier for the past 20-some-odd years. I'd like to see some content on the Scourge remnant in the area, and maybe explore what it's like to be an undead freed from the Lich King. Maybe they want to join the Forsaken, maybe they want to go it on their own, and don't want to be purged from Quel'thalas? We could have to kill Dar'khan again too, like others have suggested.

Finally... I think Quel'danas will be 12.1, honestly. I'm not sure where that would put the first raid though, which is tricky!

Edit: I guess it could be in some new place, since we're likely increasing each zones size like 2x-4x, so there will be plenty of space for new things.
Also Edit: I shrunk the map because I made it way too huge

[Nymrohd]

The zones you show are far too small by modern standards though. Eversong Woods together with Ghostlands would be similar in size to TWW zones and still smaller than a zone like the Azure Span. EPL is one of the largest Classic zones, it is still too small by modern standards and would only make sense for current wow once you add that northern coast and Stratholme to it. Also pretty much every map outside WoW has the Maisara Hills area where Zul'aman is be much larger than it is shown on the in-game map. So there is room to make that area bigger.

[Bwgmon]

You know, it never occured to me before that "Quel'thalas and the associated areas" look a bit... penisy, in a vacuum.

Quel'danas is even a spurt, man.

[The-Shan]

The zones you show are far too small by modern standards though. Eversong Woods together with Ghostlands would be similar in size to TWW zones and still smaller than a zone like the Azure Span. EPL is one of the largest Classic zones, it is still too small by modern standards and would only make sense for current wow once you add that northern coast and Stratholme to it. Also pretty much every map outside WoW has the Maisara Hills area where Zul'aman is be much larger than it is shown on the in-game map. So there is room to make that area bigger.

Yeah there's definitely room to make them a bit bigger, there's room to completely alter the coastline. I was a bit hesitant to. You could throw another peninsula further up in Zul'aman, and maybe one on the western end of Northern Lordaeron to size it up a bit.

I don't think the zones quite have to be equal in size, since you can also apply some density, you have to remember that Eversong Woods isn't in reality that big either, since Silvermoon takes up a huge portion of the Northern end. (Though outside of the capital, much of it will likely be questing areas like the western end is currently)

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You know, it never occured to me before that "Quel'thalas and the associated areas" look a bit... penisy, in a vacuum.

Quel'danas is even a spurt, man.

cant unsee it

[SaintBigfoot]

Not sure why folks are debating Northeron's status so much.

I do think they are going to utterly change what Quel'thalas looks like though