Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Ashahalasin]

Lately I have felt like the High Elf purism is projecting, or manifesting, more like dogwhistling, some dark and backwards viewpoints, I don't think I need to spell it out.

It's pretty blatant, obvious even, not disguising it very well.

Seek help.

[Nymrohd]

So I don't think this leak is real but I do think it would be cool to have Hero Talents that are cross class.

[Eldryth]

that night elf has the blue death knight eyes (male night elf eyes are default to gold), so it is a death knight that wears the paladin armor. And i think gaining the ability to transmog your multiclass armor is a neat baseline feature.

Male Night Elves have a blue eye option too. It's distinguishable from the DK eyes because it doesn't have the very noticeable energy flowing from it- which I can't see in that image no matter how closely I look.

13 hero specs are less then the 39 we got in TWW (and the "balance" argument is a foolish one, as it is never is true). The shadowlands argument would be the same for current hero talents too. And while i agree that i would not want cosmetic choices be bound to player options, it always is, by nature of classes existing. Classes are the prime "aesthetic tied to player power".

Except it couldn't be just 13 hero specs, at least not without being an even bigger disaster. You can't just slap the same exact trees on every single class and expect it to work on even a mediocre level, it'd have to be handcrafted for each combination of classes, at the very least. And that's assuming they can manage to make trees that work with all specs within a given class, which I can't really see happening without it being made overly generic (gameplay-wise).

At a minimum, you'd be looking at 156 new "hero" specs (13 classes * 12 other classes they can be mixed with), not 13.


Either way, this is way more analysis than a "leak" that looks even less real than the Avaloren images did deserves. They clearly just mimicked the TWW features page but left out key features that made it function (the arrows on either side to go to the other pages and the circles below it) and the decorations that made it look decent (like the image borders). It's a very low-effort imitation.

[Nibelheimy]

Multiclassing could possibly be the one feature that I'd be less inclined to play the game with. I hate it so much.

[Merryck]

I think you should be able to level up and switch between classes on a single character like how it works in FFXIV.

[rainhard]

I think you should be able to level up and switch between classes on a single character like how it works in FFXIV.

While a good idea on paper that could make meta chasing much more worse and we could lose class/spec variety because everyone rerolls frost dk because it is the most broken this season, and then after the nerfs they roll back to the 2nd best option.

It also heavily clashes with the RPG aspect of the game, going from paladin to druid to death knight over night, but a hero talent tree that is shared between 2 or 3 classes would be interesting without disrupting the game too much.

[Wyrt]

I think you should be able to level up and switch between classes on a single character like how it works in FFXIV.

I hate that. It takes so monstrously long to level up a new character in FFXIV and you only get loot and currency once a week, so it's not like you can even gear up multiple classes at the same time anyway. I'd play alts there too if it didn't take forever to level up.

[Makorus]

Multiclassing adds NOTHING to the game that makes it more interesting.

It's literally a case of "wow this seems really cool!" without realising that all it does it ruin any type of class fantasy, makes it a balancing nightmare, and really, 90% of combinations are just non-sensical anyway.

Yeah, ok, let's give my Arcane Mage Rend or Bladestorm. And now what? I give my Paladin Arcane Surge. How does that even work in terms of gameplay?

[Nymrohd]

I think you should be able to level up and switch between classes on a single character like how it works in FFXIV.

I would absolutely love that. I'm pretty much locked on my main but not on him having a specific class.

[Xilurm]

I think you should be able to level up and switch between classes on a single character like how it works in FFXIV.

No thanks. FFXIV doesn't have that much focus on the different races and the culture surrounding them. Also in WoW every new character feels like their own person out in the world adventuring. Yeah yeah they call the character "champion" but they're not the Warrior of Light that was blessed by a Goddess. In XIV, every new character just feels like NG+, same exact story, which is most likely intended.

Not to mention that because of that, they pretty much don't want you to have multiple characters.

I mean at the end of the day it's neat and convenient. But ngl, I'm really starting to dislike convenience these days.

[Wangming]

I think you should be able to level up and switch between classes on a single character like how it works in FFXIV.

One of the reasons I don't think this would be a good idea is that WoW conditioned its players, for over two decades now to see leveling as something you speedrun through till you get to the real game at the level cap. it is less about enjoying the journey and more about farming xp and item level. There are world first races to the cap incentivizing speed.
Especially with dungeons being unlocked by leveling and not by doing the main story quests, you can just skip chunks of the story no problem.

With this much of a focus on leveling something you just try to get over with quickly, I don't think increasing leveling to be ten times as long is a good idea.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

5 more days.

[Hearthfinder]

Thoughts on Northeron:

Pros:

+ Wildhammer friendship with High Elves
+ Old map suggesting Northeron is near Quel'Thalas
+ Recently datamined Gryphon is from Northeron while the other two are seemingly from The Hinterllands and the Twilight Highlands.
+ Ironwood Lumber being a Housing material, while elves in Warcraft 2 were "seeking insight into the mysteries of the great Ironwood trees of Northeron"

Cons:

- Old Dev Q&A from Cataclysm era suggests Northeron might've been retconned into northern part of Twilight Highlands
- There's not really been much of a mention of it in the lore over the past decade, did Azerothians just forget about's existence?
- WC2 mission briefing memtioned the dwarves of Northeron being relevant in a mission near Blackrock Mountain.

Neutral:

* WC2 mages summoned their "torrential storms from the frozen Mountains of Northeron"
* WC2 gryphon aviaries were "hwen from solid rock by the dwarves of Northeron"

Here's what I could see happening:

Rather than being a zone in the southwest of Quel'Thalas, where Stratholme sits, it's a new zone in the east. If they expand the landmass in an easterly direction they could build both Zul'Aman and Northeron there.

Zul'Aman could be a forested area in the hills east of Quel'Thalas, all the way from Eversong Forest and the Ghostlands to the sea in the east. Might even have some islands off the coast.

Northeron could be a location just below Zul'Aman, where high peaks ascend into the clouds. Just as depicted on Merzen's old map. Blizzards raging, gryphon aviaries, Ironwood forests, and the hidden city of Dun Kithas. Having a vertical zone would also benefit Blizzard's designers since it puts less pressure on having to expand the landmass east and west.

- - - Updated - - -

MrGM says the new 11.2.5 realms are up: https://x.com/MrGMYT/status/1955934150629728567

[Marlamin]

MrGM says the new 11.2.5 realms are up: https://x.com/MrGMYT/status/1955934150629728567

Yeah, mentioned that yesterday. Hoping it comes out later today or in a worst case on Friday. I really don't want PTR to release during Gamescom week, my sleep schedule would be in even more ruins than it already is.

[Hearthfinder]

Yeah, mentioned that yesterday. Hoping it comes out later today or in a worst case on Friday. I really don't want PTR to release during Gamescom week, my sleep schedule would be in even more ruins than it already is.

I'm looking into my Palanthir and I see:

11.2.5 PTR tonight.

Gamescom hype blog tomorrow.

Everything leaks on Monday.

Midnight reveal on Tuesday.

Alpha early September.

Ethereals and DH spec in 11.2.5 but not much in the ways of content otherwise. Maybe Pandaren heritage.

Secret event and Housing in 11.2.7 in time for Halloween.

[Marlamin]

Yeah, Gamescom stuff today or tomorrow is definitely in the cards, they said it would be coming before the event and surely they're not going to be waiting until the day before. I'm personally hoping nothing else major about next week leaks either in 11.2.5 PTR or otherwise. We know enough without having full context already, don't need anything else out of context to make people spin out.

[Dvalin]

Thoughts on Northeron:

Pros:

+ Wildhammer friendship with High Elves
+ Old map suggesting Northeron is near Quel'Thalas
+ Recently datamined Gryphon is from Northeron while the other two are seemingly from The Hinterllands and the Twilight Highlands.
+ Ironwood Lumber being a Housing material, while elves in Warcraft 2 were "seeking insight into the mysteries of the great Ironwood trees of Northeron"

Cons:

- Old Dev Q&A from Cataclysm era suggests Northeron might've been retconned into northern part of Twilight Highlands
- There's not really been much of a mention of it in the lore over the past decade, did Azerothians just forget about's existence?
- WC2 mission briefing memtioned the dwarves of Northeron being relevant in a mission near Blackrock Mountain.

Neutral:

* WC2 mages summoned their "torrential storms from the frozen Mountains of Northeron"
* WC2 gryphon aviaries were "hwen from solid rock by the dwarves of Northeron"

Here's what I could see happening:

Rather than being a zone in the southwest of Quel'Thalas, where Stratholme sits, it's a new zone in the east. If they expand the landmass in an easterly direction they could build both Zul'Aman and Northeron there.

Zul'Aman could be a forested area in the hills east of Quel'Thalas, all the way from Eversong Forest and the Ghostlands to the sea in the east. Might even have some islands off the coast.

Northeron could be a location just below Zul'Aman, where high peaks ascend into the clouds. Just as depicted on Merzen's old map. Blizzards raging, gryphon aviaries, Ironwood forests, and the hidden city of Dun Kithas. Having a vertical zone would also benefit Blizzard's designers since it puts less pressure on having to expand the landmass east and west.

- - - Updated - - -

MrGM says the new 11.2.5 realms are up: https://x.com/MrGMYT/status/1955934150629728567

Northeron was the old name for the Aerie Peak/the Hinterlands, that's why Warcraft 2 references it like that. In old maps it was also placed beneath Quel'thalas, but to the north of locations like Stratholme. But seeing how distorted these old maps were compared to what we have nowadays, it's easy to understand why people think it should be the name of the coast to the north of Stratholme, even though this is a misconception. Since Cata the devs brought the old name 'Northeron' back for the ruined coastline of the Twilight Highlands, basically being its canon old name before the Twilight's Hammer came. The datamined mount also references this part of Wildhammer lore, and isn't implying the existence of yet another Northeron.

So, a new Northeron zone is 100% out of the question and based on misconceptions.

[Hearthfinder]

Northeron was the old beta-name for the Aerie Peak, that's why Warcraft 2 references it like that. In old maps it was also placed beneath Quel'thalas, but to the north of locations like Stratholme. But seeing how distorted these old maps were compared to what we have nowadays, it's easy to understand why people think it should be the name of the coast to the north of Stratholme, even though this is a misconception. Since Cata the devs brought the old name 'Northeron' back for the ruined coastline of the Twilight Highlands, basically being its canon old name before the Twilight's Hammer came. The datamined mount also references this part of Wildhammer lore, and isn't implying the existence of yet another Northeron.

So, a new Northeron zone is 100% out of the question and based on misconceptions.

"100%" is pretty rich, tbh.

Like I said they distinguished between The Hinterlands, The Twilight Highlands and Northeron in the gryphon names. We also have the sudden re-emergence of Ironwood.

Lastly, they can retcon any past statements or place names as much as they like. That's why, y'know, Northeron is in a different location in the Eastern Kingdoms concept map than it is in Cataclysm.

I think there's a compelling case to be made that the Wildhammer dwarves, mounted atop their mighty gryphons and always chasing the storm, steadily expanded northwards over the years. From Khaz Modan to Twilight Highlands, to the Hinterlands, and finally Northeron. The further north they got, the friendlier they got with High Elves, the higher up in the mountains they dwelled, and the more reclusive they got.

[Samin]

I'm looking into my Palanthir and I see:

11.2.5 PTR tonight.

Gamescom hype blog tomorrow.

Everything leaks on Monday.

Midnight reveal on Tuesday.

Alpha early September.

Ethereals and DH spec in 11.2.5 but not much in the ways of content otherwise. Maybe Pandaren heritage.

Secret event and Housing in 11.2.7 in time for Halloween.

So Legion Remix runs into 11.2.7? Because as I understood that is running 4 phases * 2 weeks + 1 month after everything is unlocked

Some sneaky late housing rewards from Remix would be cool.

[Hearthfinder]

Yeah, Gamescom stuff today or tomorrow is definitely in the cards, they said it would be coming before the event and surely they're not going to be waiting until the day before. I'm personally hoping nothing else major about next week leaks either in 11.2.5 PTR or otherwise. We know enough without having full context already, don't need anything else out of context to make people spin out.

I also do not wish to see the whole thing leaked, what a bummer that would be. But I would appreciate a nugget of information since we already know the theme. Like, a leaked item that references the different kinds of elves as playable, or a Halloween mask that includes Forest Trolls or something.