Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Hellspawn]

...much of BFA through DF was Afrasiabi, though.

Afrasiabi influence ended with some bits in Shadowlands probably. He probably had very little influence on DF. He was long gone as that point (I think he was kicked out on year before the SL release?)

[Raetary]

I bet the reason the Arathi Empire will fight us is because they know the void attacked us and they might think we are corrupted.

Eh, they probably just think us inferior and want to expand their borders.
Their culture is very militaristic and Faerin did point out that the Empire is rather xenophobic and that Hallowfall is only so accepting because they didn't have much of a choice.

Even Anduin questioned whether we should be worried.

but after tlt, there will be a saga? maybe they can change to a 3y expansion format with more content :v

Next Saga, next expansion, whatever they'll do, i just think it's a plot they'll keep for the storylines after the WSS.

[13last]

The next Saga.

We heard you guys are tired of purple so here's yellow for a while!

That was what I thought as well originally and it might be true still but there's a lot of foreshadowing about them, priest quest in 11.2, SoD quest, etc. Maybe we'll fight a small faction of them before the next saga and we go to Avaloren post WSS if there is a light saga.

I'm just tired of nonstop cosmic battles. I was hoping we'd have a saga post WSS that's more grounded I guess. Maybe we'll have a better picture next week.

[The-Shan]

No biggie. Anyway I's hope new Silvermoon would look a bit different. It looks nothing like what the name suggests.
*takes a threatening glance at Stormwind*

I like the new art a lot, it looks like a modern take on Silvermoon which is excellent.

[Cheezits]

I like the new art a lot, it looks like a modern take on Silvermoon which is excellent.

I had a feeling they were just going to do "Quel'thalas, but in HD" without any crazy design takes for the Belf areas. Zul'Aman and Quel'danas will be where they can really get creative, and Ghostlands if it extends to Stratholme.

[Khaza-R]

Afrasiabi influence ended with some bits in Shadowlands probably. He probably had very little influence on DF. He was long gone as that point (I think he was kicked out on year before the SL release?)

He left in June of 2020 but he was removed from the team a year before that.

Either way, calling BfA, SL and DF a saga is dumb. You could just as easily say Legion, BfA and SL are a saga. These story in these expansions is just loosely linked by plot threads the previous one leaves behind. They weren't developed concurrently with a central story in mind so they aren't a saga.

[Wangming]

We heard you guys are tired of purple so here's yellow for a while!

That was what I thought as well originally and it might be true still but there's a lot of foreshadowing about them, priest quest in 11.2, SoD quest, etc. Maybe we'll fight a small faction of them before the next saga and we go to Avaloren post WSS if there is a light saga.

I'm just tired of nonstop cosmic battles. I was hoping we'd have a saga post WSS that's more grounded I guess. Maybe we'll have a better picture next week.

After WSS we get the Mad Max saga. No civlitation, just fighting with scraps to get fresh water.

[The-Shan]

I had a feeling they were just going to do "Quel'thalas, but in HD" without any crazy design takes for the Belf areas. Zul'Aman and Quel'danas will be where they can really get creative, and Ghostlands if it extends to Stratholme.

HD, but seriously expanded and reimagined with their ability to work with higher poly counts and with modern design considerations (i.e cities can be bigger because the geometry wont lag a PC anymore, and their size wont be annoying because of skyriding)

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He left in June of 2020 but he was removed from the team a year before that.

Either way, calling BfA, SL and DF a saga is dumb. You could just as easily say Legion, BfA and SL are a saga. These story in these expansions is just loosely linked by plot threads the previous one leaves behind. They weren't developed concurrently with a central story in mind so they aren't a saga.

Additionally you can also argue DF is part of the world soul saga because it isnt connected really to much before it, and it kicked things off with the Dark Heart. There were no 'sagas' before the world soul saga as you are saying, just patchwork stories that kinda lead into each other vaguely.

[milkmustache]

Apparently the servers are up today so it should be this week. Curious why we didn't get a post at 1 or 2 though.

Do we know for a fact, or is it just sorta looking like today?

[Frook513]

Thoughts on Northeron:

Pros:

+ Wildhammer friendship with High Elves
+ Old map suggesting Northeron is near Quel'Thalas
+ Recently datamined Gryphon is from Northeron while the other two are seemingly from The Hinterllands and the Twilight Highlands.
+ Ironwood Lumber being a Housing material, while elves in Warcraft 2 were "seeking insight into the mysteries of the great Ironwood trees of Northeron"

Cons:

- Old Dev Q&A from Cataclysm era suggests Northeron might've been retconned into northern part of Twilight Highlands
- There's not really been much of a mention of it in the lore over the past decade, did Azerothians just forget about's existence?
- WC2 mission briefing memtioned the dwarves of Northeron being relevant in a mission near Blackrock Mountain.

Neutral:

* WC2 mages summoned their "torrential storms from the frozen Mountains of Northeron"
* WC2 gryphon aviaries were "hwen from solid rock by the dwarves of Northeron"

Here's what I could see happening:

Rather than being a zone in the southwest of Quel'Thalas, where Stratholme sits, it's a new zone in the east. If they expand the landmass in an easterly direction they could build both Zul'Aman and Northeron there.

Zul'Aman could be a forested area in the hills east of Quel'Thalas, all the way from Eversong Forest and the Ghostlands to the sea in the east. Might even have some islands off the coast.

Northeron could be a location just below Zul'Aman, where high peaks ascend into the clouds. Just as depicted on Merzen's old map. Blizzards raging, gryphon aviaries, Ironwood forests, and the hidden city of Dun Kithas. Having a vertical zone would also benefit Blizzard's designers since it puts less pressure on having to expand the landmass east and west.

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MrGM says the new 11.2.5 realms are up: https://x.com/MrGMYT/status/1955934150629728567

man the Northeron cope is aboslutely real

[milkmustache]

I had a feeling they were just going to do "Quel'thalas, but in HD" without any crazy design takes for the Belf areas. Zul'Aman and Quel'danas will be where they can really get creative, and Ghostlands if it extends to Stratholme.

This was always my take too. It's not a situation like Cataclysm where zone needs to be drastically altered to be changed... the modern extension of it is the drastic change. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of Eversong and SMC are widely untouched. Ghostlands I expect to be ravaged, same with Quel'danas, maybe even Sunstrider Isle.

Zul'Aman is easily my biggest anticipation of it all. I'm so excited to see what we get out of that.

[Wangming]

HD, but seriously expanded and reimagined with their ability to work with higher poly counts and with modern design considerations (i.e cities can be bigger because the geometry wont lag a PC anymore, and their size wont be annoying because of skyriding)

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Additionally you can also argue DF is part of the world soul saga because it isnt connected really to much before it, and it kicked things off with the Dark Heart. There were no 'sagas' before the world soul saga as you are saying, just patchwork stories that kinda lead into each other vaguely.

You can argue, but people would counter that argument with Metzen revealing the TWW - Midnight - TLL trilogy as the Worldsoul Saga

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This was always my take too. It's not a situation like Cataclysm where zone needs to be drastically altered to be changed... the modern extension of it is the drastic change. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of Eversong and SMC are widely untouched. Ghostlands I expect to be ravaged, same with Quel'danas, maybe even Sunstrider Isle.

Zul'Aman is easily my biggest anticipation of it all. I'm so excited to see what we get out of that.

I'd be surprised if that were the case. We are going to have a gigantic ass void invasion after all.

[The-Shan]

You can argue, but people would counter that argument with Metzen revealing the TWW - Midnight - TLL trilogy as the Worldsoul Saga

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I'd be surprised if that were the case. We are going to have a gigantic ass void invasion after all.

My point is mostly that its not, because the world soul saga is presented as its own saga. I am trying to illustrate that there are no sagas prior to the World Soul Saga, and any similarities are just that, similarities, since expansion sagas weren't a thing.

[Frook513]

HD, but seriously expanded and reimagined with their ability to work with higher poly counts and with modern design considerations (i.e cities can be bigger because the geometry wont lag a PC anymore, and their size wont be annoying because of skyriding)

- - - Updated - - -



Additionally you can also argue DF is part of the world soul saga because it isnt connected really to much before it, and it kicked things off with the Dark Heart. There were no 'sagas' before the world soul saga as you are saying, just patchwork stories that kinda lead into each other vaguely.

I have a distinct memory of Danuser in the 9.2 sepulcher trailer, he was calling this patch the last part of the something something saga and its really epic and all of that, (im pretty sure the video was removed due to the incredibly positive feedback from the community).

So i guess DF was either really just a transition expansion or a prologue to WSS

[milkmustache]

I'd be surprised if that were the case. We are going to have a gigantic ass void invasion after all.

Maybe I should refine "widely untouched" to 70% untouched? Maybe the Anchorage gets nuked, etc.

But I don't think Eversong is going to turn into purple hell. Silvermoon may have an obliterated district I guess. I dunno. I really hope it's mostly untouched and we deal with the rest elsewhere.

Windrunner Estate in Ghostlands feels like a good candidate for Xal'atath's petty approach.

[Vakir]

Afrasiabi influence ended with some bits in Shadowlands probably. He probably had very little influence on DF. He was long gone as that point (I think he was kicked out on year before the SL release?)

"Much." Not most.

It's just weird including BFA as a Danuser saga. Guy does have enough issues to dislike on his own without making that his cross to bear.

[Fiercelord]

I really need PTR to pop up today....

[Cheezits]

You know, as a class seems less likely, they probably WOULD do a new race (not AR) for Midnight. I guess that would explain the weirdness with the Ethereals not being aronud as much on K'aresh if they are coming out with Midnigvht launch and are not early-access.

Or they do come with TWW and the Midnight race is something else.

[Enrif]

can we go back for a moment to that silvermoon image on the arena creator clash? It has a lot of floating buildings in it.

I could see Quel'thalas to go a lot more vertical to expand the play space up and integrate skyriding better.

[Pyrophax]

The comparison of German to Austrian is not comparable to the differences between void and blood elves. All void elves come from Quel'thalas, just like all blood elves come from Quel'thalas (Except for the rare diaspora who might be from Dalaran or living in human cities prior to the second war)

So lets review
- They come from the same place, speak the exact same language with no dialect differences
- Were brought up upon the exact same culture
- Diverged when void elves were transformed by a void storm ~10 years ago

Now lets look at Germans and Austrians

- Both speak similar Germanic languages (Though different enough to be classified as separate languages)
- Always has geographic differences, where germans were spread out upon the European plain, Austrians had a defensible mountain range
- Both were separated as very different political entities for hundreds of years

Do you see what I'm saying? This is not comparable at all. Void Elves left Quel'thalas like... Less than 10 years ago. Is an American guy who moves to Asia for 10 years now somehow not American? Void Elves and Blood Elves \ARE\ the same culture.

They WERE same culture, but since they bring danger to Sunwell, countless times been warned about it, but still learn Void Powers - they split, and this will cause different culture. Not yet, its been 10 years for now. But as long as Void Elves are Alliance lapdogs and traitors of Quel'thalas people - they will be. And looking at they aestetics - already are.