Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Xilurm]

Imagine that: every country in Europe lost a lot of stuff and people due to some insane wars nd there is a lot of friction among them? And than someone says: let’s reunify the splintered European countries. If that doesn’t sound familiar, you never heard of the European Union I guess

I have, I live in it. And let me tell you, they are not the same country, like what reunifying implies. The EU is more like the Alliance or the Horde. For example, during BFA the Blood Elves were considering a "brexit" of their own from the Horde.

I think we just don't have the same idea of what "reunifying" means. To me it implies that they will live together from now, that they are considered the same people or something.

[SaintBigfoot]

I mean, you thought Beledar was the Naaru so I guess you’ll believe anything

*looks over at how it was originally named Naaru Crystal and looks back at you*

[D45]

I have, I live in it. And let me tell you, they are not the same country, like what reunifying implies. The EU is more like the Alliance or the Horde. For example, during BFA the Blood Elves were considering a "brexit" of their own from the Horde.

I think we just don't have the same idea of what "reunifying" means. To me it implies that they will live together from now, that they are considered the same people or something.

Germans is real life example you are looking for.
In WoW its going to be High Blood and maybe Void Elves.
Thats most likely why Dalaran was destroyed to give High Elves excuse to "go back" to Silvermoon.

[Houle]

They seem pretty fundamentally different to me down to their very personalities. I don’t think their personalities are similar at all. I certainly wouldn’t call Xal theatrical or camp.

Xal, not dramatic or campy? The Xal who loves to make an entrance and hear herself talk, who takes every chance she gets to gloat, who likes to have constant up and close talks and interactions with her enemies?

Azshara doesn’t want power for the sake of power. She is a narcissist. She believes that power is her right because of her station. She’s charismatic and invokes devotion in her subjects. The vast majority of the Highborne population was obsessed with her and revered her like she was a God. They would have done anything for her. Funnily enough, in some twisted sense, Azshara actually cares for her subjects in some fashion. And she "cares" about her subjects only as an extension of herself.

"She wants power for no other reason than believing she deserves it" IS wanting power for the sake of power. She doesnt have a specific goal for it, she just wants it bc she thinks shes the best and should thus have it.

But even if we would say theres a distinction between that, so what. Their motivations arent exactly 100% the same. Their personalities, presentation and actions are still extremely similar.

Xal isn’t charismatic and she doesn’t inspire devotion. The old Nerubian queen saw right through her and wanted nothing to do with her. Her daughter saw through her too but wanted the power Xal promised.

You are possibly the first person ive seen here who says Xal isnt charismatic. Charisma is the one big thing most people agree she has going for her, her characterization and motivation besides that is pretty flat.

[milkmustache]

Do screenshots from the internal testing ever get leaked?

Wasn't there a screenshot of a Dracthyr on the bridge connecting Azure Span and Thaldraszus that leaked close to announcement?

[Khaza-R]

We only have Metzen’s words to go by at the moment. He said reunify the scattered Elf tribes. It’s likely he didn’t mean that to include the Night Elves but those were his words.

I do think its interesting his exact words were the scattered elf tribes of Azeroth rather than the scattered elf tribes of Quel'thalas

Idk, to me that has two very different meanings.

[Wyrt]

I do think its interesting his exact words were the scattered elf tribes of Azeroth rather than the scattered elf tribes of Quel'thalas

Idk, to me that has two very different meanings.

But they wouldn't reunite. Nightborne aren't going to leave Suramar to go live in Quel'thalas, night elves certainly aren't going to leave Bel'amath to go live in Quel'thalas. They're still going to be separate people with separate homes.

[kavikor]

But they wouldn't reunite. Nightborne aren't going to leave Suramar to go live in Quel'thalas, night elves certainly aren't going to leave Bel'amath to go live in Quel'thalas. They're still going to be separate people with separate homes.

But they may fight under on banner like the UN

[Khaza-R]

But they wouldn't reunite. Nightborne aren't going to leave Suramar to go live in Quel'thalas, night elves certainly aren't going to leave Bel'amath to go live in Quel'thalas. They're still going to be separate people with separate homes.

I don't think you need to live in the same place to re-unify. Its could just mean cooperation or founding a completely elven force unified on their goals.

[Wyrt]

I don't think you need to live in the same place to re-unify. Its could just mean cooperation or founding a completely elven force unified on their goals.

But how is that different from them teaming up with any other race? Did they unify with the Forsaken in Tranquillen or with the draenei in Quel'danas in BC?

[Rhlor]

Because players still want to play as high elves officially - hte ustomisation options make it completley unecessary, but fantasy has always been the source of customsiatio, not hte other way around. So it matters to them that you can playa s a high elf.


I mean I'm not bothered either way, the factions hardly mean anything for me to be concerned, playing a blood elf means next to nothing now for being on the horde, it's just having hte character model, and once you have it, it feels pointless having it again on the alliance - you might as well play the horde blood elf. Being on either faction offers no qualitiative, sotry or anything meaningful for you to care about being on either except for ancient loyalty.

Alliance hte good guys, Horde the ocol guys? Even that has no meaning now - you just don't care if ietherwin or lose.

In such a case as this, focus should shift back to the individual races, with the horde and alliance just serving as a generalumbrella of allegiances rather than a nation or empire - I feel this isbetter anyway.

I think it's a waste of customization and resources for a race that's basically the same as what we already have. They should give us more customizations for Void Elf and Blood Elf, and if we're going to have races that are more original, like Ethereans or Nagas.

[Khaza-R]

But how is that different from them teaming up with any other race? Did they unify with the Forsaken in Tranquillen or with the draenei in Quel'danas in BC?

Yes. That's literally one of the definitions of unifying. Setting aside your differences under a common goal.

[Xilurm]

Yes. That's literally one of the definitions of unifying. Setting aside your differences under a common goal.

So the same way the Alliance and the Horde were unified in almost every expansion?

[Wyrt]

I think it's a waste of customization and resources for a race that's basically the same as what we already have. They should give us more customizations for Void Elf and Blood Elf, and if we're going to have races that are more original, like Ethereans or Nagas.

Additionally it just doesn't make sense in the story. If the elves are reunifying it makes no sense for the high elves to be made a separate allied race causing further disunity.

Yes. That's literally one of the definitions of unifying. Setting aside your differences under a common goal.

So then Metzen talking about it is a big nothing burger. Weird way to advertise an expansion.

[Khaza-R]

So the same way the Alliance and the Horde were unified in almost every expansion?

I wouldn't say its the same. The Alliance and Horde cooperated. But they still for the most part pursued their own agendas for many of the expansions.

In the examples he was using the cooperation was intended to be permanent and not temporary like the Horde and Alliance.

[D45]

Obviously High Elves are going to reunite with Blood Elves since Dalaran was destroyed and Horde needs more Alliance characters.

[Santandame]

Xal, not dramatic or campy? The Xal who loves to make an entrance and hear herself talk, who takes every chance she gets to gloat, who likes to have constant up and close talks and interactions with her enemies?



"She wants power for no other reason than believing she deserves it" IS wanting power for the sake of power. She doesnt have a specific goal for it, she just wants it bc she thinks shes the best and should thus have it.

But even if we would say theres a distinction between that, so what. Their motivations arent exactly 100% the same. Their personalities, presentation and actions are still extremely similar.



You are possibly the first person ive seen here who says Xal isnt charismatic. Charisma is the one big thing most people agree she has going for her, her characterization and motivation besides that is pretty flat.

Because if we are using the text book definition of charisma then she most certainly isn’t charismatic. She doesn’t inspire devotion, loyalty or enthusiasm. She doesnt have a magnetic pull to her which invokes loyalty in those that follow her and her cause, like with Azshara and the Highborne, or Garrosh and the majority of the Orcs, or Sylvanas and the Forsaken. The Nerubians, Gallywix and Alleria aren’t allied with her due to her possessing a certain charm, or because they are buying into her cause. In fact, all of those parties see right through her bullshit and know her for what she is. She has something they need, or she has something to offer, and they want it.

[kavikor]

Because if we are using the text book definition of charisma then she most certainly isn’t charismatic. She doesn’t inspire devotion, loyalty or enthusiasm. She doesnt have a magnetic pull to her which invokes loyalty in those that follow her and her cause, like with Azshara and Garrosh. The Nerubians, Gallywix and Alleria aren’t allied with her due to her possessing a certain charm, or because they are buying into her cause. In fact, all of those parties see right through her bullshit and know her for what she is. She has something they need, or she has something to offer, and they want it.

Yeah I wouldn't call Xal'atath charismatic at all, she's conventionally attractive and cool and voidy, but I don't think that translates to charisma. Maybe when she was still a dagger?

[Santandame]

Yeah I wouldn't call Xal'atath charismatic at all, she's conventionally attractive and cool and voidy, but I don't think that translates to charisma. Maybe when she was still a dagger?

It comes down to a tale as old as time. Confusing charismatic with this character is cool and I like them.

Charismatic characters in the WoW lore are the likes of Azshara, Garrosh and Sylvanas, off the top of my head.

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"She wants power for no other reason than believing she deserves it" IS wanting power for the sake of power. She doesnt have a specific goal for it, she just wants it bc she thinks shes the best and should thus have it.

But that’s not wanting power just for the sake of it, is it? She believes it is her right to wield that power. That is a very clearly defined reason. It plays into her narcissism and her twisted delusions of grandeur in regards to herself. It isn’t a case of well I might as well have this power because why not? Nothing we’ve seen of Xal is in a similar vein to that. She hasn’t shared those same reasons for wanting power.

Stannis Baratheon didn’t want to become King of Westeros for the sake of becoming King. It was because he believed it to be his right. The same with Daenerys. They’re both fundamental bits of information about their characters. A heightened sense of self importance that they are the chosen ones.

[Houle]

Because if we are using the text book definition of charisma then she most certainly isn’t charismatic. She doesn’t inspire devotion, loyalty or enthusiasm. She doesnt have a magnetic pull to her which invokes loyalty in those that follow her and her cause, like with Azshara and Garrosh. The Nerubians, Gallywix and Alleria aren’t allied with her due to her possessing a certain charm, or because they are buying into her cause. In fact, all of those parties see right through her bullshit and know her for what she is. She has something they need, or she has something to offer, and they want it.

Wait, so youre telling me you measure a characters charisma exclusively by how they are treated in the story? As opposed to, yknow, how the the players/viewers tread them? The only people for whom the charcter is actually supposed to be engaging and interesting for?

You do know theres a difference between a character just *being* charismatic (intentionally or not), and a character whos *written" as charismatic (in the story)?

The character is charismatic for a lot of players. She certainly inspires enthusiasm from a considerable number of them.

It comes down to a tale as old as time. Confusing charismatic with this character is cool and I like them.

Charismatic characters in the WoW lore are the likes of Azshara, Garrosh and Sylvanas, off the top of my head.

Nope, its simply recognizing the difference between how actual people reacted to her and how (certain) ingame characters did.

I personally dont like her that much (bc as i said, shes pretty flat when it coes to any sort of deeper characterization or motivation). But i can see how popular she is.

But that’s not wanting power just for the sake of it, is it? She believes it is her right to wield that power. That is a very clearly defined reason. It plays into her narcissism and her twisted delusions of grandeur in regards to herself.

Stannis Baratheon didn’t want to become King of Westeros for the sake of becoming King. It was because he believed it to be his right. The same with Daenerys. They’re both fundamental bits of information about their characters.

Except it very much is. Wanting power for the sake of power means a character has no real goal for said power besides having it.

Iridikron, for example, might want power bc he wants to defeat the titans. The power isnt the point, its tool.

Azsharah doesnt want power bc she wants to do anything with it. She wants it for the sake of having it, bc she believes she deserves it.