Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Santandame]

Wait, so youre telling me you measure a characters charisma exclusively by how they are treated in the story? As opposed to, yknow, how the the players/viewers tread them? The only people for whom the charcter is actually supposed to be engaging and interesting for?

You do know theres a difference between a character just *being* charismatic (intentionally or not), and a character whos *written" as charismatic (in the story)?

The character is charismatic for a lot of players. She certainly inspires enthusiasm from a considerable number of them.

Those are some serious goal posts being moved there, friend.

Next you’ll tell me Dutch van der Linde from Read Dead Redemption isn’t charismatic because the players think he is a piece of shit and don’t like him.

Feel free to refer to my earlier point. “This character is cool and I like them therefore they are charismatic.”

[Vakir]

Hear hear.

Almost none of the characters designed to be charismatic in the story are actually charismatic. Some were and that didn't last.

[Santandame]

Hear hear.

Almost none of the characters designed to be charismatic in the story are actually charismatic. Some were and that didn't last.

Garrosh and Sylvanas didn’t last? Interesting take.

[Ersula]

I have, I live in it. And let me tell you, they are not the same country, like what reunifying implies. The EU is more like the Alliance or the Horde. For example, during BFA the Blood Elves were considering a "brexit" of their own from the Horde.

I think we just don't have the same idea of what "reunifying" means. To me it implies that they will live together from now, that they are considered the same people or something.

When was the Blood Elves considering a "brexit?" They were like, the third or forth to rebel against Sylvanas. And even then they never considered rejoining the Alliance. The only person who wanted that was Alleria & the rest of the elves were just side-eyeing that.

The more accurate analog of the alliance horde conflict is Nato & the Collective Security Treaty Organization. It's an alliance with the understanding that its members will help each other if attacked. Like Russia & the Middle East, they weren't allowed in Nato so they formed their own equivalent of it. Their militaries cooperate with each other but otherwise every member is completely autonomous. It's not like the European Union where their economic & legislative apparatuses are also collaborating.

I see two misconceptions being thrown around here; The devs referred to it as a kind of elf unification, but I doubt its going to involve the Night Elves. They might show up but it seems like the expansion is going to be largely about the High elves & Silvermoon. Night elves have nothing to do with Silvermoon.

The second being this sort of unification is probably only going to be felt around the end of the expansion, because surely Blood Elf hatred of the Void Elves is going to be at its peak at the beginning of midnight since the events kick of with Xalatath, who is effectively a void elf, attacking Silvermoon & likely killing a few beloved citizens. Even if she's technically not the same as void elves...she looks exactly like a void elf. This is how racism happens.

[Wyrt]

Garrosh and Sylvanas didn’t last? Interesting take.

Garrosh had the charisma of an edgy 13 year old screaming into the void on 4chan.

[Houle]

Those are some serious goal posts being moved there, friend.

Next you’ll tell me Dutch van der Linde from Read Dead Redemption isn’t charismatic because the players think he is a piece of shit and don’t like him.

The only one whos moving the goalpost is you mate. Which is why you ignored half of my previous points twice.

I never ever said the characters in the story treat her as majorly charismatic. Not once. Bc how the characters in the story see her is utterly irrelevant for how the players see her. And how the players see her is the only important part. The characters is written for the players, not for the other characters.

Hear hear.

Almost none of the characters designed to be charismatic in the story are actually charismatic. Some were and that didn't last.

What?? You think a character can be charismatic, without being intentionally written as having half of the stories cast fawning over them? How dare you Vakir.

[Santandame]

Garrosh had the charisma of an edgy 13 year old screaming into the void on 4chan.

Garrosh had an entire army of Orcs devoted to him, who betrayed the Horde for him and were willing to die for him and his cause.

How is the character not charismatic?

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The only one whos moving the goalpost is you mate. Which is why you ignored half of my previous points twice.

I never ever said the characters in the story treat her as majorly charismatic. Not once. Bc how the characters in the story see her is utterly irrelevant for how the players see her. And how the players see her is the only important part. The characters is written for the players, not for the other characters.

Not responding to other points being made isn’t moving the goal posts. I’m instead focusing on specific points you are making.

We are talking about how how similar the characters are, how the characters are written.

Azshara is written to be charismatic. Xal’atath is not. We have the source material to go off that.

Saying that whilst the in game characters in the written story may not find her charismatic, certain players do is irrelevant. Are the players also being manipulated by said character too? We were discussing the similarities between the characters. How they are written. Not how the player perceives the character.

[Therougetitan]

Yawn petty arguing. We must be really bored. Can't wait for Tuesday!

[Joszef Kiprich]

Garrosh had an entire army of Orcs devoted to him, who betrayed the Horde for him and were willing to die for him and his cause.

How is the character not charismatic?

He was written to be charismatic. NPC's think he is.
To the players really depends who you ask.
That was his point. He never mentioned written charismatic.

[Santandame]

He was written to be charismatic. NPC's think he is.
To the players really depends who you ask.

Exactly. He was written with those character traits. Which is the original point being discussed. The similarities between characters.

[Houle]

Not responding to other points being made isn’t moving the goal posts.

It is when its specifically done to move the discussion down to arguing about a singular point, as if its the only one that matters for it.

We are talking about how how similar the characters are, how the characters are written.

Azshara is written to be charismatic. Xal’atath is not. We have the source material to go off that.

And what shes written to be is, again, entirely fckn irrelevant. Sometimes, characters who were written to be charismatic fell entirely flat. And sometimes, characters who werent specifically written to be charismatic turn out to be so for the audience.
Just like some characters who were written to be hated turned into beloved characters, and some who were written to be liked turned out to be hated by the community.
The audience is the ONLY thing that matters in such questions. If the character is charismatic for the audience, then they are a charismatic character.

Exactly. He was written with those character traits. Which is the original point being discussed. The similarities between characters.

*sigh* No, the original point wasnt with which traits the characters were written, the original point was about how the characters are ACTUALLY seen and work on-screen, for the players. And that is very similar for these 2.

[Wyrt]

Garrosh had an entire army of Orcs devoted to him, who betrayed the Horde for him and were willing to die for him and his cause.

How is the character not charismatic?

Says more about how stupid orcs are than how charismatic the character is.

A charismatic leader doesn't immediately have Cairne and Vol'jin wanting to kill him.

[Joszef Kiprich]

At least one Shadow Priest thought she was charismatic.

[13last]

We're just adding pages arguing over the funniest shit. That blood elf with the mustache is chefs kiss.

Well be at 5100 by Tuesday at this rate.

[Santandame]

And what shes written to be is, again, entirely fckn irrelevant. Sometimes, characters who were written to be charismatic fell entirely flat. And sometimes, characters who werent specifically written to be charismatic turn out to be so for the audience.
Just like some characters who were written to be hated turned into beloved characters, and some who were written to be liked turned out to be hated by the community.


*sigh* No, the original point wasnt with which traits the characters were written, the original point was about how the characters are ACTUALLY seen and work on-screen, for the players.

It is relevant. Xal’atath wasn’t written to be a charismatic character. As I said, we can see by the literal source material that she wasn’t written to be charismatic based off how the characters respond and react to her. Regardless of whether, you, or some one else does find her charismatic, the very character down to how she is written and portrayed isn’t with the intent to be charismatic.

You can emotively sigh all you like. The original point was the similarities between the characters. At no point was it stated about the players perceive the characters to be. We were discussing the redundancies of using a character you considered too similar to Xal’atath, in the expansion following the one Xal was featured prominently in.

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Says more about how stupid orcs are than how charismatic the character is.

A charismatic leader doesn't immediately have Cairne and Vol'jin wanting to kill him.

I suppose the same could be said of Charles Manson and David Koresh.

At least the FBI knew the score.

Although I’m a little confused about your point. If Garrosh was written to charismatic but Cairne and Vol’jin, characters in the story wanted to kill him - does that mean they knew they were in a video game?

[Cheezits]

Yeah, outside of a miracle I think the leaks are done. We already got bits off the cinematic from Blizzard themselves even.

[13last]

It is relevant. Xal’atath wasn’t written to be a charismatic character. As I said, we can see by the literal source material that she wasn’t written to be charismatic based off how the characters respond and react to her. Regardless of whether, you, or some one else does find her charismatic, the very character down to how she is written and portrayed isn’t with the intent to be charismatic.

You can emotively sigh all you like. The original point was the similarities between the characters. At no point was it stated about the players perceive the characters to be. We were discussing the redundancies of using a character you considered too similar to Xal’atath, in the expansion following the one Xal was featured prominently in.

Bro how was she not written to be charismatic? When you meet her she's smooth, intimate, seductive, some chars even admire her strength. She's mysterious enough to keep me and you guessing what she's about and what her end goals are. She's def charismatic in my book.

[Wyrt]

I suppose the same could be said of Charles Manson and David Koresh.

At least the FBI knew the score.

Although I’m a little confused about your point. If Garrosh was written to charismatic but Cairne and Vol’jin, characters in the story wanted to kill him - does that mean they knew they were in a video game?

No, it means he wasn't written to be charismatic. He couldn't even win over the 2 closest Horde leaders to the orcs.

[Santandame]

No, it means he wasn't written to be charismatic. He couldn't even win over the 2 closest Horde leaders to the orcs.

He wasn’t attempting to win over the Trolls or the Tauren. All he cared about were the Orcs and bar a small handful, he had the vast majority willing to die for him.

[Ersula]

Yeah, outside of a miracle I think the leaks are done. We already got bits off the cinematic from Blizzard themselves even.

The most credible leaks happened around 24 hours before a reveal so.... see here monday