Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Revamp Man]

I'd say I like you to be wrong...but sadly, that recent Bronze Daily about Proto Azeroth tells us that they intend to keep up the cadence of 2 major patches.

Other than the lack of a raid I'm OK with two patches
Before 10.1 we had forbidden reach and more story
If they keep that up I'm fine with it

- - - Updated - - -

I feel that if Dragonflight ended with 10.2 Alexstraza and the red flight will get next to no development, and I'm really looking forward to a new setting. I love the patch cadence we've had, but this setting and these characters have not gripped me whatsoever. The story has been almost a total flop for me personally so far at every turn. So as much as I'm exited to move on, I'd really rather we got 10.2.5 with Vyranoth and a second mega dungeon or mage tower (no limited time rewards this time) in that tower in Azure Span, then a full Alexstraza/red flight/conclusion to the whole keepers influencing theme in a 2
10.3.

Or they give them character development then ditch it fir a "twist" like the black aspect story

[huth]

He's the only Venthyr with hooves, and the only Nathrezim without wings. I assume he was designed to eventually have wings.

He is neither a Venthyr nor a Nathrezim. He created both.

[Woggmer]

Other than the lack of a raid I'm OK with two patches
Before 10.1 we had forbidden reach and more story
If they keep that up I'm fine with it

- - - Updated - - -



Or they give them character development then ditch it fir a "twist" like the black aspect story

I don't know... It feels lacking to end on 10.2... If it does end on 10.2 then it is a sign of them working on a revamp. If not, then we just go about it as usual like with any other expansion.

[Well Done Steak]

What's this I hear about the BL being under new management via Sire D????

[Hitei]

Azshara wont be our enemy and she will fight Xal'atath because you forgot it maybe but Azshara is not allied with the Void anymore =p

Imagine soiling a character like Azshara like that.. She randomly back now with more void powerz and despite being imprisoned and tortured by an old god..

She magically jumped into the void managers office and kissed Xal'atath so they just made her the manager instead.

It's absolutely wild that people still can't differentiate between the Void and Old Gods.

Sylvanas absolutely and completely despised Arthas and what Arthas did to her. She was still totally willing to go above him and make deals with the powers of Death like Helya and the Jailer. Because Death isn't what tortured and enslaved her, Arthas was. Death was simply a tool; a form of power that she could acquire more of and use to further her own ends, like avoiding the horrible fate that was waiting past dying and keeping Lordaeron under the control of her and the Forsaken.

Azshara did not like N'zoth. She has always loved power, and the void is power--one of the most fundamental and extensive powers in the universe. Her comments in Ny'alotha make it clear that her response to N'zoth was not "omg, I'm so traumatized, I'm never going anywhere near anything on that entire side of the cosmic chart ever again!!!". It was "N'zoth was a middleman, and I'm going straight to the power source so I can rule for real."

[Lolites]

There are not plenty of non gay romances this expansion. It was distractingly focused on lgbt romances.

really?
i can think of only one gay couple (the centaurs, dont recall names) which was quite decent, not really a heavy focus, mind reminding me those "focused" lgbt couples in DF?
on the other hand, Malfurion and Tyrande, Malygons and Sindragosa were part of "main" questlines...

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Azshara did not like N'zoth. She has always loved power, and the void is power--one of the most fundamental and extensive powers in the universe. Her comments in Ny'alotha make it clear that her response to N'zoth was not "omg, I'm so traumatized, I'm never going anywhere near anything on that entire side of the cosmic chart ever again!!!". It was "N'zoth was a middleman, and I'm going straight to the power source so I can rule for real."

The issue is that the Void is still a force with an agenda, and a very persuasive and corrupting force at that. In addition to that, the Void Lords and Xal'atath would both now have a precedent that Azshara can't be trusted. Azshara would likely know that they'd know, meaning that she'd certainly understand that any collaboration would be highly risky. If her primary objective is to consolidate power, collaborating with agents of the Void Lords would likely be a very dangerous thing to do.

Mind you, I could still see her employing Void magic for her own ends and potentially coming into conflict with the powers that be of the Void while trying to bend it to her own will, but the idea that I've seen tossed around that she's going to wind up as an ally of Xal'atath seems a bit nonsensical (not to mention that it wastes prime meat for conflict between antagonists), though not out of the ballpark of what will likely happen given how unreasonable the writing is to begin with.

[Lady Atia]

Once again it's weird that we have a new build which also confirms "Emerald Dream" for the next patch, but all you guys do is talk about some lore stuff about Azshara and Xal and even Sylvanas?

https://www.wowhead.com/news/new-que...e-story-334303

Can we please focus up again??

[Nymrohd]

How do you know Azshara and Xal'atath didn't arrange their plans thousands of years ago?

Also, the Void sees infinite possibilities yada yada etc. It might consider Azshara and Xal'atath a new possible way to achieve its goals, if the Old Gods failed. A recurring theme amongst the Old God seems to be infighting. Only one will remain to consume the others etc.

If Xal'atath is a 5th Old God, perhaps she's simply on her way towards being that final one.

Azhara did own Xal for a while after the Sundering or at least the naga did. So Xal and Azshara having reached an agreement in ages past is not unlikely.

[Hitei]

The issue is that the Void is still a force with an agenda, and a very persuasive and corrupting force at that. In addition to that, the Void Lords and Xal'atath would both now have a precedent that Azshara can't be trusted. Azshara would likely know that they'd know, meaning that she'd certainly understand that any collaboration would be highly risky. If her primary objective is to consolidate power, collaborating with agents of the Void Lords would likely be a very dangerous thing to do.

You're sort of fundamentally mischaracterizing these entities. No one high up in the Void foodchain is worried about loyalty or principled enough to not work with someone over the possibility that the person in question has their own agenda. The entire dogma of the Void is that reality exists in a constantly dynamic storm of potential possibilities and what-ifs. Void Lords aren't going to be worried about "this person could potentially turn against me!" because that's an innate possibility to any and all cooperation. They could turn against each other at any point--we don't even know that the Void Lords are a coherent and aligned cabal, they could be at full-scale war with each other in their own realms while trying to invade the Great Dark.

Xal'atath openly talks about how there was only ever going to be a single Old God remaining in power on Azeroth. In other words, from their inception, the Old Gods understood that they were going to be fighting and destroying one another, their whole existence is an exercise in pursuing their own agenda while cooperating when it's beneficial, under the implicit knowledge that such cooperation is temporary and going to drop one way or the other.

The Void Lords and Xal'atath default to the precedent that everyone can be "trusted" because "betrayal" is just a normal possibility and innate potential. The fact that Azshara might at any point attempt to get one over on them and throw them under the bus isn't a negative, it's expected.

Azshara has never concerned herself with "but that might be risky". And again, the Void is the Void, it's one of six primordial, universe-spanning forces of existence surpassed only by the patterns of the First Ones. This isn't "but maybe instead she could just go study hard and practice all her schools of magic!" or "maybe she'll experiment with void magic" or "but maybe she could just try and steal all the power from Azeroth". The Void and Light exist on an entirely different level of reality, it's comparing nuclear missiles to gravity, Azeroth is a strong existence but the Void and Light interacting created the whole universe Azeroth is in, and seemingly every other world soul in it.. It's a cosmic force of true limitless potential that is also always offering itself up.

Nothing about her potentially ending up working with Xal'atath is bad writing. It's the most consistent writing there is. Azshara has spent ten thousand years and her entire story making highly duplicitous deals with forces that have the potential to offer her power. She went to go find true power. She's not Neltharion, looking to putz around with shadow magic and see what neato little trinkets can be made if it's mixed with other stuff. She wants to become a god. It's what she's always attempted to do.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

How do you know Azshara and Xal'atath didn't arrange their plans thousands of years ago?

Also, the Void sees infinite possibilities yada yada etc. It might consider Azshara and Xal'atath a new possible way to achieve its goals, if the Old Gods failed. A recurring theme amongst the Old God seems to be infighting. Only one will remain to consume the others etc.

If Xal'atath is a 5th Old God, perhaps she's simply on her way towards being that final one.

That's fair enough, I suppose, but it feels to me like something of a waste of potential for intraforce conflict. Having every villain with even the slightest affinity for the Void collaborating under Xal'atath's banner feels to me like a loss. I maintain it would be better from a point of normative analysis that conflict between Xal'atath and Azshara could be more interesting on account of the two seeking entirely different and irreconcilable ends: the former the victory of the Void Lords, the latter her own elevation and the restoration of her empire.

-snip-

That's fair enough, I suppose. I'll concede that point. I do, however, maintain that it may come at a loss for potential conflict within a given force that could manifest from the mutually-incompatible objectives of either party. I will also contest the point that the Void being intended as a fundamental, transcendent cosmic force would have any impact on Blizzard's decision-making when we know full well that the most respect they lend the cosmic forces is determining which color they want their raid bosses to be in: the Void, insofar as Blizzard has characterized it, is blueberry-flavored with flesh-mounds and mishandled "insanity" status effects. As much as I'd love for Blizzard to explore the natures of the cosmic forces on a more fundamental level, the reality feels to me like any exploration of the "thousand possibilities" spiel or the gradient perspective of the Void will invariably manifest as the local cosmic cheerleaders spouting one-liners about how cool their flavor of raid boss is. The existence of the void elves shows how little Blizzard seems to care about actually lending any value to these cosmic forces as fundamental principles underlying existence. It isn't absolute, since we've had some cases of better execution, but it's definitely the more optimistic approach to assume that the better path will be the one taken.

[Hitei]

Once again it's weird that we have a new build which also confirms "Emerald Dream" for the next patch, but all you guys do is talk about some lore stuff about Azshara and Xal and even Sylvanas?

https://www.wowhead.com/news/new-que...e-story-334303

Can we please focus up again??

An Emerald Dream zone is coming, the thing that's been expected forever, since they first released a map with a massive convenient hole over on the green dragon section right besides an Emerald Dream portal, alongside a whole bunch of hints about the Emerald Dream.

We've known with 99% certainty that it's coming for weeks now, so a quest background that bumps it to 99.9% has little impact.

The Xal and Azshara discussion is discussion about the main ongoing plot. About where a 10.3 might go, the actual conclusion of the expansion and what 11.0+ might be. The Emerald Dream is mechagon. There's nothing to "focus up" on. The most interesting part of it isn't even the Emerald Dream, but the possibility of a new tree and what that means for Night Elves going forward.

[Nymrohd]

The fact that we are talking about the Void Lords as if they are rational agents that actually can perceive mortals in the grand scheme is so disappointing.

[Lady Atia]

An Emerald Dream zone is coming, the thing that's been expected forever, since they first released a map with a massive convenient hole over on the green dragon section right besides an Emerald Dream portal, alongside a whole bunch of hints about the Emerald Dream.

We've known with 99% certainty that it's coming for weeks now, so a quest background that bumps it to 99.9% has little impact.

The Xal and Azshara discussion is discussion about the main ongoing plot. About where a 10.3 might go, the actual conclusion of the expansion and what 11.0+ might be. The Emerald Dream is mechagon. There's nothing to "focus up" on. The most interesting part of it isn't even the Emerald Dream, but the possibility of a new tree and what that means for Night Elves going forward.

That's you asuming that there is actually a 4th raid tier? It's still possible that we are just getting the Emerald Dream as final zone with 10.3. being just another fated season - after all, the new Expansion will be showed at Blizzcon.

Besides that, it still has nothing to do with the discussion if you talk about Sylvanas or some half page long essays about the nature of Aszhara lol.

Also the Emerald Dream would be more like Argus, not fucking Mechagon.

They also said they wanted to make the raids/final bosses not obvious from the start again this time btw., hence we got Sarkareth with the 2nd tier. A final Emerald Dream raid and Iridikron/Xal/Aszhara being used for the next Expansion instead of Dragonflight would fit that bill. Also would be exactly what people wanted - story and bosses teased in advance, not a "suddenly there is Jailer" again.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Also the Emerald Dream would be more like Argus, not fucking Mechagon.

That's what is assumed and hoped for on account of its belated appearance, not what is concretely known.

[Lady Atia]

That's what is assumed and hoped for on account of its belated appearance, not what is concretely known.

Well to be fair the Forbidden Reach was pretty much the Mechagon of this Expansion, while Zaralek is the Nazjatar equivalent. The Emerald Dream zone is coming out with a major patch instead of a .5 and will prolly be the Zereth Mortis of Dragonflight. No clue why people are suddenly expecting ANOTHER new zone aswell as a raid even though Ion confirmed that the fated season worked for them and will be tweaked and used for Dragonflight's final months.

10.2. will be previewed in September, and 11.0 at Blizzcon. Also keep in mind they can add small story bridges during the fated season's .5 and .7.5 patches too. Also dragonriding for all mounts and zones as a big feature alongside the fated raids. Maybe even all classes for Dracthyr once the main story is over.

[Hitei]

That's you asuming that there is actually a 4th raid tier? It's still possible that we are just getting the Emerald Dream as final zone with 10.3. being just another fated season - after all, the new Expansion will be showed at Blizzcon.

Besides that, it still has nothing to do with the discussion if you talk about Sylvanas or some half page long essays about the nature of Aszhara lol.

No? Raid tiers are irrelevant.

Iridikron is the primary antagonist of the expansion's storyline so far. His plot involves a figure that is probably either Xal'atath or Azshara. In 10.0.5 we were given a Naga communique that also tied the Naga and Azshara to the currently ongoing main plot and whatever Harbinger Iridikron is attempting to utilize. So speculation on what role Azshara and Xal'atath have in the coming plot is speculation about the actual primary plotline and the potential expansion being announced this year.

What Azshara is up to is important.

Also the Emerald Dream would be more like Argus, not fucking Mechagon.

I mean... no? Argus is the homeworld of one of the primary antagonist factions of the warcraft universe. The Emerald Dream is a sequestered pocket dimension whose threats tend to be Emerald Dream specific. If anything the argument here would be that the Emerald Dream is Tanan Jungle. Which again, holds little draw compared to talking about, for example, what Gul'dan or Sargeras might be up to at the end of WoD.

They also said they wanted to make the raids/final bosses not obvious from the start again this time btw., hence we got Sarkareth with the 2nd tier. A final Emerald Dream raid and Iridikron/Xal/Aszhara being used for the next Expansion instead of Dragonflight would fit that bill. Also would be exactly what people wanted - story and bosses teased in advance, not a "suddenly there is Jailer" again.

Okay? You're in the 10.X and 11.0 speculation thread. Even if that storyline is 11.0 territory, it's still very much within the focus of this thread. If you want to speculate about the Emerald Dream zone, speculate about the Emerald Dream zone, people talking about things farther down the line doesn't prevent that.

[Sondrelk]

Well to be fair the Forbidden Reach was pretty much the Mechagon of this Expansion, while Zaralek is the Nazjatar equivalent. The Emerald Dream zone is coming out with a major patch instead of a .5 and will prolly be the Zereth Mortis of Dragonflight. No clue why people are suddenly expecting ANOTHER new zone aswell as a raid even though Ion confirmed that the fated season worked for them and will be tweaked and used for Dragonflight's final months.

10.2. will be previewed in September, and 11.0 at Blizzcon. Also keep in mind they can add small story bridges during the fated season's .5 and .7.5 patches too. Also dragonriding for all mounts and zones as a big feature alongside the fated raids. Maybe even all classes for Dracthyr once the main story is over.

Because while the Fated season works, it was also something that worked as a simple solution to the post-expansion drought.

For that matter, nothing so far implies that 10.2 will be the final major patch outside SL not having a third major patch.
We have not even revived Tyr and gotten close to learning about the inevitable Titan Keepers betrayal plotline. Either it would be massively rushed in the 10.2 patch, or it would bleed over directly into the next expansion, which seems like a reach compared to just having a resolution in this expansion that has repercussions for the next.

[Nymrohd]

I hope Blizzard knows that a Fated Season as a replacement for a fourth raid tier and content update will not be a win. BfA had 4 raid tiers after all.

We are expecting 11.0 to release soon after the anniversary in Late November, Early Dec
The first raid tier lasted 21 weeks. Let us assume Legion pacing of 22 weeks.
That means 10.2 at 10/10/23 (In time for ust to have cleared it before Blizzcon). I would expect 10.1.7 to do two full rotations between zones so 8 weeks (10.0.7 was just 6 weeks right?) So it would release at 15/8/23 which is very much possible if we get a release candidate until next Friday
Which means 10.3 at 12/3/24. If the expansion releases at November 24 that would mean the fourth tier will last 33-37 weeks. If it ends 12 weeks earlier and we have a 12 week Fated Season it goes to 21-25 weeks which is what would make most sense.
So the expectation should remain that we get 10.3 with a raid tier.

[Skildar]

really?
i can think of only one gay couple (the centaurs, dont recall names) which was quite decent, not really a heavy focus, mind reminding me those "focused" lgbt couples in DF?
on the other hand, Malfurion and Tyrande, Malygons and Sindragosa were part of "main" questlines...

I've found this doing a quick google searh : https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment..._dragonflight/
If I've learned anything from chatting about this here is that there is no discussion about what we people feel our representation is just or not, just internet points to win...