Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Dvalin]

Back after a while just for the Hype train and some leaks. What are the currently believable leaks at this point?

Basically none.

[milkmustache]

Not to be a "buzz kill," but simply trying to be realistic. While many (most) of us here are obsessed with and knowledgeable about World of Warcraft lore, the idea of Blizzard just updating old zones in the "modern era" is NOT going to go over well for the 99% of people who don't give two hoots about the lore. To us, it makes sense. It's been nearly 20 years since these zones have been updated. However, to the "regular Joe" who doesn't pay attention/care about the lore, they will just say that Blizzard is being lazy and cutting costs. "Why are we going back to zones we already visited? This sucks."

I can just see the outrage already.

I simply don't agree. It has nothing to do with lore. All of us who are suggesting this have emphasized the fact the zone is a fan favorite.

It's not just going back to the same zones, and I don't think it would be viewed this way. We're talking about expanding Eversong and the Ghostlands almost 3 to 4 times over each, with assumingly 2 additional zones being added. The community in whole has been very vocal about their support of returning to old zones, which is why they're doing this.

It's perfectly fine to have some void scarred areas, some active battle zones, but drastically altering the identity of the zone removes the purpose of returning. We may as well have had prepatch events in old zones and just introduce X island like they've done in the past.

[Xilurm]

Not to be a "buzz kill," but simply trying to be realistic. While many (most) of us here are obsessed with and knowledgeable about World of Warcraft lore, the idea of Blizzard just updating old zones in the "modern era" is NOT going to go over well for the 99% of people who don't give two hoots about the lore. To us, it makes sense. It's been nearly 20 years since these zones have been updated. However, to the "regular Joe" who doesn't pay attention/care about the lore, they will just say that Blizzard is being lazy and cutting costs. "Why are we going back to zones we already visited? This sucks."

I can just see the outrage already.

I don't know, I haven't heard many complaints about Quel'thalas and Northrend since that's what we'll be getting for the next 5 years.

That said, how can they be cutting costs when these zones will be remade from the ground up?

Besides does the "regular Joe" even care? They just get on their flying mount and zoom past everything anyway.

[Dvalin]

I simply don't agree. It has nothing to do with lore. All of us who are suggesting this have emphasized the fact the zone is a fan favorite.

It's not just going back to the same zones, and I don't think it would be viewed this way. We're talking about expanding Eversong and the Ghostlands almost 3 to 4 times over each, with assumingly 2 additional zones being added. The community in whole has been very vocal about their support of returning to old zones, which is why they're doing this.

It's perfectly fine to have some void scarred areas, some active battle zones, but drastically altering the identity of the zone removes the purpose of returning. We may as well have had prepatch events in old zones and just introduce X island like they've done in the past.

I agree with you. A lot of players can't wait to see a drastically expanded, but still somewhat familiar, HD version of Quel'thalas (or other parts of the old world Blizzard is planning to update, like Northrend).

People love a form of nostalgia, as well.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

Are we certain there won't be Bronze Dragonflight NPCs in the altered zone to get us to the old MapIDs? I feel like they would just implement that, anyways.

Obviously in a far greater expansion of Old World revamps they could just make it a NPC Menu or a Toy.

[Nymrohd]

Her main attribute is that she wants power above everything else. I'm not sure I see her putting a lot of value in shoving all the broken, tint populations of high elves together. I'm not sure she'd see that as a big power win. It's only been 30 years since 90% of high elves were killed, and only 10% of that 10% became high elves, and only a fraction of that 10% of 10% became void elves.

The sunwell itself is probably almost nothing compared to the dark heart at this point, the sunwell consisting of a single drop of the original well of eternity and the dark heart containing the literal power of multiple gods.

If I were azshara, I would be scheming on how to break up the deal between xal and nzoth and iridikron and thinking of how to make them fight each other and steal all their work for herself.

Azshara does not want power. She wants to rule (and for that she needs power). If all Azshara cared for is power, she would have teleported out of Zin-Azshari and planned for the next day, she would not try to save it. In her own perverse way she loved her kingdom, if only as an extension of herself. Azshara is a narcissist not a psychopath.

- - - Updated - - -

Not to be a "buzz kill," but simply trying to be realistic. While many (most) of us here are obsessed with and knowledgeable about World of Warcraft lore, the idea of Blizzard just updating old zones in the "modern era" is NOT going to go over well for the 99% of people who don't give two hoots about the lore. To us, it makes sense. It's been nearly 20 years since these zones have been updated. However, to the "regular Joe" who doesn't pay attention/care about the lore, they will just say that Blizzard is being lazy and cutting costs. "Why are we going back to zones we already visited? This sucks."

I can just see the outrage already.

Most of those people won't even remember what those zones are. The ones who will be complaining are the ragebait "influencers" looking for a click.

- - - Updated - - -

Alright, so chances are i'm not gonna be adding anything else to the train today.
And i'll be working all day tomorrow and get home just about when the ONL starts.

So unless anyone got some last minute ideas, this will be the final result for this years Hypetrain:

It was an honor, as always.

And i already got the TLT train conceptualized.
That one's gonna be extra special.

Here's the train gallery for those who might be interested in the progression:
https://imgur.com/a/oUO28NQ

I assume the TLT train will use the Mimiron train model.

[milkmustache]

I agree with you. A lot of players can't wait to see a drastically expanded, but still somewhat familiar, HD version of Quel'thalas (or other parts of the old world Blizzard is planning to update, like Northrend).

People love a form of nostalgia, as well.

Totally. In fact, that seems to be the entire reason for the World Soul Saga. I'm completely fine with Quel'danas getting void nuked, but if all of Quel'thalas is nearly unrecognizable, why are we even bothering to return?

[Lady Atia]

Not to be a "buzz kill," but simply trying to be realistic. While many (most) of us here are obsessed with and knowledgeable about World of Warcraft lore, the idea of Blizzard just updating old zones in the "modern era" is NOT going to go over well for the 99% of people who don't give two hoots about the lore. To us, it makes sense. It's been nearly 20 years since these zones have been updated. However, to the "regular Joe" who doesn't pay attention/care about the lore, they will just say that Blizzard is being lazy and cutting costs. "Why are we going back to zones we already visited? This sucks."

I can just see the outrage already.

Na, most people started with TBC and most people did with bloodelf. Nostalgiabait and 'memberberries are huge for these zones.

[Nymrohd]

Totally. In fact, that seems to be the entire reason for the World Soul Saga. I'm completely fine with Quel'danas getting void nuked, but if all of Quel'thalas is nearly unrecognizable, why are we even bothering to return?

Yeah I want the place to be as close to pristine as possible when the expansion finishes. Set the entire place on fire if you want during the expac but when we leave it should be like a starting zone.

[THEORACLE64]

our initial plans are set in motion in the home of the blood elves, but what if we lost their crown jewel?
remember aq? what is above the city that is under? where can we go when one home is lost?
what are we to do about skyriding from eastern kingdoms to the north?
i wish azeroth had a weatherman or two... or three
we don't dig for treasure within, perhaps try looking another direction
an even more glorious campaign... but dont you think classes are a bit... classic?
i don't see race... but i do i eat fresh
sorry flat earthers

there's going to be a large emphasis on housing being an evergreen feature, not an expansion feature

This is just a load of shit of someone thinking they have clever writing skills when they’re just restarted.

[Ferlion]

So I've actually had a bit of a thought, which is rare for me.

Have there been any leaks we've seen that involve dragons at all?

So, one of the major reasons the Aspects were created was to combat the Void. We are used to seeing the Aspects vs Void through the lens of the Deathwing conflict, but the reason they lost their powers in the first place was they tried to cleanse Deathwing, who was juiced up on Void.

The Chromatic Dragons, all of the pre-DF Black Dragon stuff.. It's all linked to the Void.

Well, Midnight is supposed to be a Void invasion expansion, so the Aspects who recently had their powers restored SHOULD be playing a role in it.

[Raetary]

I assume the TLT train will use the Mimiron train model.

Indeed.

I'll also be using Photopea instead of Gimp, which will make editing a whole lot easier and yield a better, smoother looking train.

[Cheezits]

What if it's literally HD TBC Quelthalas + new zones (Zul Aman) + bigger, but it's literally broken off from EK? I think that's what I had in mind + flying.

Because it's so ridiculously unlikely (sadly) they will revamp North EK it's likely going to be a bubble or something like this (flying or broken off and sailed into its own island)

[Hitei]

This is absolutely the right call. This isn't a situation like Cataclysm where the idea of a revamp needs some sort of drastic change. The 20 years of storytelling, visual upgrades, and structural changes is the drastic change. Bring us back to Quel'thalas, give us some Void on Quel'danas and pockets of the other zones, and start rebuilding this world in the modern era and I think everyone will be thrilled.

Hard disagree. I'd honestly rather see the entire region void glassed. Teldrassil, Theramore and Silithus were all significantly better developments than having the same place as before, but nicer looking. I'm not sure there's a thing that feels more game-y and immersion-breaking that such a contrived maintaining of nicety. "Oh no, Undercity has been plagued... oh it's all good we're cleaning it up now."

Teldrassil's mistake wasn't being burned to the ground, it's that it was made a distant visual instead of a burned out husk that could be explored as a zone.

[Alanar]

Azshara does not want power. She wants to rule (and for that she needs power). If all Azshara cared for is power, she would have teleported out of Zin-Azshari and planned for the next day, she would not try to save it. In her own perverse way she loved her kingdom, if only as an extension of herself. Azshara is a narcissist not a psychopath.
.

If there is nothing to rule over, because the goal of the other party is to destroy. I could see her having issues with Xal.

Her sole goal was to rule, destined to rule.

[Ferlion]

Azshara does not want power. She wants to rule (and for that she needs power). If all Azshara cared for is power, she would have teleported out of Zin-Azshari and planned for the next day, she would not try to save it. In her own perverse way she loved her kingdom, if only as an extension of herself. Azshara is a narcissist not a psychopath.

It's also important to remember, as we never really get to see it, that Azshara was a *good* Queen before she got seduced by the Legion/Sargeras. She propelled her people to great heights, she listened to them, gave favors, actually governed. She paid attention to what was going on, offered a place in her palace to those who gained favor with the people (Hell, a High Priestess in one case).

While a lot of this is very much vanity, because she WAS as you say a narcissist, she understood the power of doing good to look good.

She's the type that would pull a "I'm here to save you all" and mean it if it meant everyone loved her.

Hell, even in the middle of the War of the Ancients, her goal was to remake the world in her image, and her image was perfection.

[Hearthfinder]

As a final thought before hitting the sack on this Midnight Eve, I think we're probably not prepared for just how much of a Shadow vs. Light themed expansion this will be.

I think these themes will feature heavily in marketing material, to the point where some of us who may prefer more grounded low fantasy vibes might almost begin to feel it's too much.

Sure, they will go hard on Quel'Thalas nostalgia and I'm sure both Blood Elf and High Elf enjoyers will have plenty of reason to pre-purchase the expansion.

But while we're "returning to the Old World," I don't think we'll find that the new zones are just an enchanted woodland filled with fairies and cute animals. There will be darkness. There will be losses.

And once we've beaten back the Shadow, I think it's likely the expansion will focus on the Light instead. All the elven stuff will be the glue binding it all together, but this is truly the showdown between the Light and the Void. We know those two need to exist in balance, and if one becomes dominant, well...

Player Housing is going to be such a relief and a welcome respite from adventuring.

Final predictions:

Guaranteed

- Quel'Thalas revamp.
- Light vs. Void focus.
- Lots of elves.

Highly likely

- New race or customisation lets you play High Elves.
- More race/class combinations.
- New Demon Hunter spec.
- New Hero Talents.

Somewhat likely

- Playable Forest Trolls.
- Playable Ethereals.
- New Class.
- New character customisation.

Within the realm of possibility

- Northeron zone.
- Eastweald zone.
- Avaloren in a patch.
- Lordaeron or north EK revamp.
- Open world difficulty tiers.

[Nymrohd]

What if it's literally HD TBC Quelthalas + new zones (Zul Aman) + bigger, but it's literally broken off from EK? I think that's what I had in mind + flying.

Because it's so ridiculously unlikely (sadly) they will revamp North EK it's likely going to be a bubble or something like this (flying or broken off and sailed into its own island)

Yeah I still struggle to understand how it will be split in a separate instance without feeling weird.

[Alanar]

Just let it go and just wait and see.

This leak season has been a drag and these pointless prediction or wishlists are just uch what ever. Give it a break and admit this was a terrible waitroom/season. No one cares about these lists really as we had nothing to really set our teeth it. The logo was already known, its been very weird this time around. Also Ai leaks were not really out there as others had predicted. Time to move on.

Only good thing, is that we were not spoiled, so we could get sone genuine responses and wow moments hopefully.

[Cheezits]

Yeah I still struggle to understand how it will be split in a separate instance without feeling weird.

If you make it a flying continent separated by Xal fuckery I think that's way more interesting than a bubble and mechanically more feasible than a North EK revamp (as great as that would be) or a giant ass phase lock around EPL.

I also think the implications of SMC, ZA and possibly part of Lordaeron (Northeron too??) being split off from EK could add some really interesting lore to the setting. What would the Horde do now that two of its eastern territories are in danger, with a recruitable troll kingdom attached?