Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Lorgar Aurelian]

If you're interpretation were true, the Darkspear would not exist today. Clearly while the Elves considered it part of the empire, as any Dark Troll lore establishes, and their appearance in Warcraft 3 corroborates, Dark Trolls lived there, before and after, the Sundering. Nymrohd already explained that.

What? The dark spears are ex Gurubashi and you can see Zul gurub still there in the night elf empire picture.

Did you just make up that the dark spears were dark trolls because they both used the word dark?

[Ersula]

What? The dark spears are ex Gurubashi and you can see Zul gurub still there in the night elf empire picture.

Did you just make up that the dark spears were dark trolls because they both used the word dark?

Genetics? The Darkspear tribe includes many skin colors not present in Jungle Trolls. As described by Vol'jin the Darkspear welcome all trolls with nowhere else to go. That is a story of cultural displacement.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Given that there is still a living Dark Troll in Zandalar, that is clearly not what happened. They are dying out now, but that's still well over 10,000 years later than you assume.

Again id have to go check the book but you could have still trolls in Zandalar and have had them all leave hyjal it would just mean they split up at some point or that dark trolls from some where other then hyjal went to Zandalar as they had multiple spots on the map.

Of course I could also just be miss remembering and some stayed in Hyjal some went to the well and some new to Zandalar, though I still don’t believe there is any mention of them having any issues with night elfs like Ersula has said.

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Genetics? The Darkspear tribe includes many skin colors not present in Jungle Trolls. As described by Vol'jin the Darkspear welcome all trolls with nowhere else to go. That is a story of cultural displacement.

So ya you made it up as blizzard doesn’t delve into the Genetics of skin tones in wow nor have they ever mentioned the elfs displaying dark trolls.

[huth]

Again id have to go check the book but you could have still trolls in Zandalar and have had them all leave hyjal it would just mean they split up at some point or that dark trolls from some where other then hyjal went to Zandalar as they had multiple spots on the map.

The problem with that is the time since they supposedly left. There would have had to be a substantial population of Dark Trolls for most of it still.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The problem with that is the time since they supposedly left. There would have had to be a substantial population of Dark Trolls for most of it still.

Well ya but that population doesn’t have to have any thing to do with night elfs or hyjal they would have been living Among the Zandalari in the capital, in other zones in Zanadar, or on random islands for all we know.

[Ersula]

Again id have to go check the book but you could have still trolls in Zandalar and have had them all leave hyjal it would just mean they split up at some point or that dark trolls from some where other then hyjal went to Zandalar as they had multiple spots on the map.

Of course I could also just be miss remembering and some stayed in Hyjal some went to the well and some new to Zandalar, though I still don’t believe there is any mention of them having any issues with night elfs like Ersula has said.

You're right that we have to infer some of this information. But there's three possible interpretations of what you're saying.

1.) The Dark Trolls are a small demographic still living in peaceful unity with the Night Elves today
2.) The remnant of the Dark Trolls transformed into Night Elves at some point assuming the transforming qualities of the Well of Eternity are still present in Nordrassil.
3.) The growth of the Night Elf empire forced the Dark Trolls to find a new place to live, much like the Native Americans.

Possibility 1 isn't true as any troll tribes still in Kalimdor are hostile to Night Elves. Possibility 2 might be true but its still fucked up; a slow, non-violent destruction of your culture & species is still displacement. Maybe we're not supposed to assume a dominant civilization moving into a new land, removing the culture that existed there originally & then rewriting history to portray themselves positively but in the real world, that's the truth every single time. Any traits & backstories we give fictional races is informed by real world races & history. And here we have a clear pattern of Night Elves portraying themselves positively even when they've caused untoward destruction.

Also, this is all tangential to my point: The point was just about the Night Elves treating Nordrassil as a holy thing & their racial supremacist attitude because of their reverence for it, when in actuality it was just a thing the Dragons gave them to repair a hole in the planet they made. What happened to the Dark Trolls isn't (completely) relevant to that.

[babalou1]

They used a cutting of Nordrassil. The same way all the other world trees were made. But Teldrassil is the exception because the dragons were pissed off the elves did it without their consent. No druid is powerful enough to create a tree from nothing. The Dragons never gave them a seed and only blessed Teldrassil long after it was already grown, initially condemning Teldrassil's existence.

The Circle of the Ancients and the wise druids led by Fandral combined their powers to grow an immense tree in the Veiled Sea. Straight from lore. Where is your bullshit coming from? Got a source for using a cutting of Nordrassil?

And it explicitly states that Nordrassil was grown from a SINGLE ACORN of the recently lost Mother Tree by Alexstrasza. So CLEARLY the dragons gave them a seed.

[hipolnalrt]

No chance wow does a boat/sea exploration expansion now. FF14 beat 'em to it.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

You're right that we have to infer some of this information. But there's three possible interpretations of what you're saying.

1.) The Dark Trolls are a small demographic still living in peaceful unity with the Night Elves today
2.) The remnant of the Dark Trolls transformed into Night Elves at some point assuming the transforming qualities of the Well of Eternity are still present in Nordrassil.
3.) The growth of the Night Elf empire forced the Dark Trolls to find a new place to live, much like the Native Americans.

There’s more then 3 possibles.

4 they all left hyjal and turned into night elfs or relocated.

5 they were wiped by the satyrs post WOA.

6 they were wiped out by the undead/legion in WC3

7 they were wiped out by the twilight hammer and fire elementals in Cata.

As well as the shatter spear up to cata showing that they could still be living there in peace right now.

Of course like none of theses are supported in any way as we know incredibly little about the dark trolls but there all just as likely as the dragons or night elfs doing any thing to them.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

No chance wow does a boat/sea exploration expansion now. FF14 beat 'em to it.

Thats not a reason WoW won't do it.

[Makabreska]

No chance wow does a boat/sea exploration expansion now. FF14 beat 'em to it.

Damn, that means no one ever can make such expansion, eh?

[Ersula]

And it explicitly states that Nordrassil was grown from a SINGLE ACORN of the recently lost Mother Tree by Alexstrasza. So CLEARLY the dragons gave them a seed.

Shaladrassil & Vordrassil were created from cuttings of Nordrassil. Why would the Dragons give them a seed to plant a world tree they explicitly did not want them to create? You're ignoring the whole part where the Dragons condemned the creation of Teldrassil until long after it was grown.

4 they all left hyjal and turned into night elfs or relocated.

5 they were wiped by the satyrs post WOA.

6 they were wiped out by the undead/legion in WC3

7 they were wiped out by the twilight hammer and fire elementals in Cata.

Dude, those are all varieties of "displacement."

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Dude, those are all varieties of "displacement."

Leaving on your own volition isn’t being displaced nor is being wiped out.

But even if they were all of them are far from being blamed on the night elfs/dragons.

[Woggmer]

No chance wow does a boat/sea exploration expansion now. FF14 beat 'em to it.

That's not gonna stop them... if anything it's only going to encourage them to try it.

It isn't the first time that they allowed players to actually sail on a boat, they did it back in Cata when Thousand Needle was flooded over. So in order to get around the water, they gave players a literal boat to travel around the zone.

[babalou1]

Shaladrassil & Vordrassil were created from cuttings of Nordrassil. Why would the Dragons give them a seed to plant a world tree they explicitly did not want them to create? You're ignoring the whole part where the Dragons condemned the creation of Teldrassil until long after it was grown.

Nordrassil was created from an Acorn (Seed) of the Lost Mother Tree. Which was grown after the Sundering

Shaladrassil was around BEFORE the sundering

Andrassil/Vordrassil was literally the ONLY one created via a branch of Nordrassil.

Teldrassil was grown by "The Circle of the Ancients and the wise druids led by Fandral combined their powers to grow an immense tree in the Veiled Sea."

Amirdrassil was also grown by a seed

All of this is actual lore not headcanon.


Find me a source. ANY source that says Teldrassil was created from cuttings of Nordrassil.

[Jekyll]

Nordrassil was created from an Acorn (Seed) of the Lost Mother Tree. Which was grown after the Sundering

Shaladrassil was around BEFORE the sundering

Andrassil/Vordrassil was literally the ONLY one created via a branch of Nordrassil.

Teldrassil was grown by "The Circle of the Ancients and the wise druids led by Fandral combined their powers to grow an immense tree in the Veiled Sea."

Amirdrassil was also grown by a seed

All of this is actual lore not headcanon.


Find me a source. ANY source that says Teldrassil was created from cuttings of Nordrassil.

Speculation, Amirdrassil named after Amitar. IKR. Dont @me.

[Kiivar86]

Speculation, Amirdrassil named after Amitar. IKR. Dont @me.

Do you mean Amitus?

[Jekyll]

Do you mean Amitus?

I said what I said.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Do you mean Amitus?

I think that is what Jekyll means.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

I said what I said.

I mean, Amitar is apparently the name of an antidepressant, and it's technically a remedy to the elves' depression.