Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Revamp Man]

I think if the Titans come it won't be them
It will be a titan forged Illidan because IIRC the Titans are nowhere near full power
That also means iridikron could stand a chance

[Ameonna]

I really don't get why everybody immediately assumed that it would work that way to begin with. It'd make much more sense for them to become seperate demons. It's not like that'd be a problem for the Legion, they actually needed the manpower. As is, it was never anywhere near big enough to actually pull off Sargeras ambitions.

But no, for some reason everybody convinced themself that all alternate versions must share the same soul, even though that only causes problems while serving no actual purpose.

Because its canon? Like did you read Illidan novel? Archimonde and Kazzak from wod dungeon journal? Tomb of Sargeras and A Thouands years war audio drama? as well as some legion quest? Because all of them states it

All started in 6.2 ptr with a tweet from Afrasiabi which stated that the Legion is unique and there is only one version of each demons...

[Gurahk]

I still don't get why they haven't made it so all timelines outside of the main one are just small what-ifs that stop existing after we've been to them. This timeline debacle is exclusive to reality, so having them exist at all times would just be a headache for the lore, especially in the case of the demons.
Sure, there could be some exceptions like Draenor, which had Kairoz link it to Azeroth permanently, but otherwise these different timelines should just be temporary anomalies.

A suggestion for the demons however is to have their mortal forms in the different timelines still be seperate beings, but when they turn into demons their soul merges with the current one.

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If Argus is any indication, killing Titans is very hard. But if Aggramar is any indication, destroying their physical form & mind controlling them is really easy.

Its a safe bet this expansion ends with the Harbinger taking control of the Titans.

Aggramar's physical body was already destroyed by Sargeras, we're fighting his tortured soul.

[Houle]

If Argus is any indication, killing Titans is very hard. But if Aggramar is any indication, destroying their physical form & mind controlling them is really easy.

Its a safe bet this expansion ends with the Harbinger taking control of the Titans.

We never fought a single titan in their actual physical form and full power. Argus was a tortured and prematurely born world soul, who had been used as a battery for a few millenia. Aggramar was tortured, mind controlled and put into an avatar body - his real body was destroyed by Sargeras ages ago. Same with the rest of the Pantheon. The only titan weve seen in his real body was Sargeras himself, and it took the entire Pantheon+ Argus's power to merely imprison the dude.
Theres nothing so far that indicates the Harbringer would suddenly be able to control titans - mature titans are immune to the voids corruption, its the entire reason the Void Lords started pumping out OGs in the first place. They can only go for world souls.
If anything, its more likely that Xal is the harbringer, who used to be an OG herself, and since her own body was destroyed, she is now trying to corrupt the world soul of Azeroth this way.

[Nightshade711]

I mean tbf with the whole Archimonde thing…
Technically he didn’t die in the Nether.

There’s the whole cinematic of him grabbing Gul’dan and throwing him through the portal back on Draenor then dying.

Sure we fought him in the nether but he died on Draenor.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I mean tbf with the whole Archimonde thing…
Technically he didn’t die in the Nether.

There’s the whole cinematic of him grabbing Gul’dan and throwing him through the portal back on Draenor then dying.

Sure we fought him in the nether but he died on Draenor.

Thats hard to understand since why didn't he regen or respawn quick in Legion. Honestly I think archi is just dead dead at this point.

[Raetary]

Archimondes fate is very much up in the air.

Even in the interview where Kosak confirms that the Mythic phase is supposed to be canon, he literally starts out with "We might change it, this might not be canon".

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Thats hard to understand since why didn't he regen or respawn quick in Legion. Honestly I think archi is just dead dead at this point.

Demonic respawn isn't instantaneous.
Argus just accelerated their natural respawn timer.

Archimonde died and then the events of Legion happened right after.

There is more than enough wiggle room to have Archimonde return, with him simply just now finishing his ressurection.

[huth]

Because its canon? Like did you read Illidan novel? Archimonde and Kazzak from wod dungeon journal? Tomb of Sargeras and A Thouands years war audio drama? as well as some legion quest? Because all of them states it

All started in 6.2 ptr with a tweet from Afrasiabi which stated that the Legion is unique and there is only one version of each demons...

...people were utterly convinced it worked that way in 6.0. That's my whole point. So thanks for proving it, i guess.

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Demonic respawn isn't instantaneous.
Argus just accelerated their natural respawn timer.

Archimonde died and then the events of Legion happened right after.

There is more than enough wiggle room to have Archimonde return, with him simply just now finishing his ressurection.

Also, Argus tethered their souls and let them circumvent the whole "dying in the Nether" thing, which is kinda relevant here. Kil'jaeden is likely toast given how shortly before Argus his death happened. Archimonde had quite a bit of time on the other hand.

[Skildar]

Also, Argus tethered their souls and let them circumvent the whole "dying in the Nether" thing, which is kinda relevant here. Kil'jaeden is likely toast given how shortly before Argus his death happened. Archimonde had quite a bit of time on the other hand.

Kil'jaeden exploded of fel. To me it felt like his mind is not able to sustain the corruption anymore.

Archimonde could still be alive but honestly I don't care for him. He's never had a personnality nor motivations. He was a named sorcerer that couldn't even control his armies

[Ameonna]

I mean tbf with the whole Archimonde thing…
Technically he didn’t die in the Nether.

There’s the whole cinematic of him grabbing Gul’dan and throwing him through the portal back on Draenor then dying.

Sure we fought him in the nether but he died on Draenor.

Listen to Tomb of Sargeras audio drama, they literaly tell you that Archimonde is gone for good like OUR Archimonde, not an alternate one is DEAD for good in wod it is exactly what the tomb of sargeras audio says and i think Bellular and ppl should listen to that audio drama :



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...people were utterly convinced it worked that way in 6.0. That's my whole point. So thanks for proving it, i guess..

Thats wrong, no one thought it worked like this in 6.0 lol, people even said that the Mannoroth that died in the cgi from wod was an alternate mannoroth since our was dead in war3...but devs in 6.2 completly made clear that the Mannoroth we kill in HFC (who also died from Grommash in the cgi) is the same in war3

And they did this because, as with the Archimonde, no one gave a dam about killing alternate version of demons that already died in the 3rd war, thats why Afrasiabi came up with the "its the same demons for all timeline" because if not ppl would not care...

So yeah no idea why you bring 6.0 up when i clearly pointed at 6.2 ptr...and people did not think of it working this way UNTIL AFRASIABI SIAD SO!!!!

[huth]

So yeah no idea why you bring 6.0 up when i clearly pointed at 6.2 ptr...and people did not think of it working this way UNTIL AFRASIABI SIAD SO!!!!

Because people were already talking about it in 6.0.This was already a topic before we even knew what 6.2 was going to be.

Why exactly "our" Mannoroth dying in WC3 would be relevant when them being able to return from death is an established trait is rather questionable as well. Your timeline makes no sense.

[Ameonna]

Because people were already talking about it in 6.0.This was already a topic before we even knew what 6.2 was going to be.

Why exactly "our" Mannoroth dying in WC3 would be relevant when them being able to return from death is an established trait is rather questionable as well. Your timeline makes no sense.

It was never confirmed that they could return at this point in time. The only ones that were confirmed to be able to return were the Nathrezim back in Cataclysm.

They specifically precised that Nathrezim could return but not other demons so people were not sure about others, and most said Mannoroth and Archimonde considering their death in war3 were impactful for the story (the death of Mannoroth was needed to free the orcs from the blood pact which is now a quesiton since he is not truly dead so how could his defeat break the paéct if he is not dead?)

And btw, here is the answers : https://warcraft.blizzplanet.com/blo...ore-revelation

Here the devs clearly tells you that there was only ONE version of demons.

So here you can stop saying bull about "ho but its players faults" because no its not.

[Darkarath]

The stupidity of the idea of one Legion across the multiverse is only comparable to Danuser's explanation of what happens to the different versions of one character when they end up in the Shadowlands.

Hopefully they take the chance to start retconning stuff than does not make any sense.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Well if they are going to imply Archimonde is alive, utilize him well when the time comes(Or rather don't kill him off quickly).

[Ameonna]

The stupidity of the idea of one Legion across the multiverse is only comparable to Danuser's explanation of what happens to the different versions of one character when they end up in the Shadowlands.

Hopefully they take the chance to start retconning stuff than does not make any sense.

But the thing is, and i think people dont realize it, is that both of these bad idease would not need to exist or be explained if the multiverse/AU/Alternate timeline simply did not exist in warcraft universe.

This bs was mainly made in Cata with the Twilight of the Aspects novel and 4.3 with End Time dungeon and WoD fully expanded it to its full "glory"

But everytime they have to bring it up, it is because ppl ask "but how it works with the multiverse" if there was no multiverse this would not even have to be asked ><

[Darkarath]

But the thing is, and i think people dont realize it, is that both of these bad idease would not need to exist or be explained if the multiverse/AU/Alternate timeline simply did not exist in warcraft universe.

This bs was mainly made in Cata with the Twilight of the Aspects novel and 4.3 with End Time dungeon and WoD fully expanded it to its full "glory"

But everytime they have to bring it up, it is because ppl ask "but how it works with the multiverse" if there was no multiverse this would not even have to be asked ><

The multiverse by itself does not have to be bad. It could even be potentially cool. The problem is when you start mixing concepts in stupid and completely unnecessary ways.

If there was one Legion across the multiverse they would be unstoppable. Period. It would not be possible to argue against their completely dominance over the multiverse. They would corrupt and create millions of Kil'Jaedens and Archimondes, entire civilizations repeteadly, hold uncountable artifacts of untold power... You see how it goes.

The Shadowlands has the same problem. It is so fucking idiotic that there is just one across the multiverse. Its base concept is just completely dull. I do not even want to talk about how SL basically killed WoW in so many ways and for so many players.

But Blizzard can use the multiverse in a simple and amazing way IMO. Yrel's Army of Light.

From WoD to BfA, I believe that 2-3 years passed in Azeroth. Yet in WoD's Draenor they were like... 20-30? So when DF is done another 50-80 years would have passed in Draenor. In that time Yrel might have conquered several planets. Even an alternate Azeroth. The potential of her Army is only comparable to the Burning Legion. In fact it is exactly that, call it the Light's Crusade or however you want. Yrel has the potential to become a new Kil'jaeden, with the Naaru as her guide instead of Sargeras.

[Khaza-R]

I'd take what Bellular is promoting with a grain of salt. We really don't need Archimonde for the 4th time in the story.

My hopes are they pick up the abandoned storyline of WoD. Have MU Yrel who was speculated to be the daughter of Archimonde and make her the new leader of the Legion.

That would also be way more of reason to tie-in AU Yrel than she just randomly decides to invade our timeline for reasons.

[Ameonna]

I'd take what Bellular is promoting with a grain of salt. We really don't need Archimonde for the 4th time in the story.

My hopes are they pick up the abandoned storyline of WoD. Have MU Yrel who was speculated to be the daughter of Archimonde and make her the new leader of the Legion.

That would also be way more of reason to tie-in AU Yrel than she just randomly decides to invade our timeline for reasons.

I completly agree, because i find so dumb how people are wanting an Archimonde when you have a plenty of cool still alive characters like Velysra, like Velhari, like Nuri (the wife of Velen) Sateil, Thal'kiel or even Jaraxxus if they want to joke around...just to mention some that are actually interesting and not dead.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I completly agree, because i find so dumb how people are wanting an Archimonde when you have a plenty of cool still alive characters like Velysra, like Velhari, like Nuri (the wife of Velen) Sateil, Thal'kiel or even Jaraxxus if they want to joke around...just to mention some that are actually interesting and not dead.

Most of those characters don't have the "star power" that Archimonde does. Assuming Blizz is even going along with Archi alive.

[Ersula]

They specifically precised that Nathrezim could return but not other demons so people were not sure about others, and most said Mannoroth and Archimonde considering their death in war3 were impactful for the story (the death of Mannoroth was needed to free the orcs from the blood pact which is now a quesiton since he is not truly dead so how could his defeat break the paéct if he is not dead?)

And all of that turned out to be a lie since Shadowlands revealed all the Dreadlords (a.k.a. Nathrezim) were never demons and are all alive & well.

If anything, its more likely that Xal is the harbringer, who used to be an OG herself, and since her own body was destroyed, she is now trying to corrupt the world soul of Azeroth this way.

Nowhere do they say what Xalatath's goal is. And I don't think the power level of Titans actually matter since they're almost impossible to kill but very easy to corrupt & mind control. If Iridikron is counting on Xal to fight the Titans for him he's going to be very disapointed as the Priest questlines make it clear after being put into the dagger & then into a mortal body, she's less than 1% of her original power.

Aggramar's physical body was already destroyed by Sargeras, we're fighting his tortured soul.

I don't think you can confidently say that's how Titan's work. When in the same raid we have unkilled Eonar floating around as a disembodied spirit. Are you saying killing his soul turns him back alive again in the Argus fight? Then you're saying half the titans have physical bodies & half of them are disembodied spirits when they imprison Sargeras & its impossible to distinguish the difference by looking at them.

Well its not what dungeon journal says about Socrethar, and we already killed him in TBC and if he died in tbc (thus reforming in the nether) how can be a ghost in alternate draenor? (after we killed him in shatrath) and not be in the nether?

Are you Familiar with Uther and all the ghosts of him on Azeroth? My theory is that a ghost is someone in the shadowlands dreaming but anyway there's no canon explanation for ghosts. Its clear a demon's ghost showing up on Argus is indicative of nothing.