Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[NikolaiShade]

Was it ever implied that Elune is omnipotent or omniscient? Just because she is named divine doesn't make her like a monotheistic god from Earth

Divine or not before, during Shadowlands she was put on par with Titans and WQ, probably making Elune a member of the "pantheon" of Life

[huth]

Was it ever implied that Elune is omnipotent or omniscient? Just because she is named divine doesn't make her like a monotheistic god from Earth

No. I don't think anybody was established or implied to be such even.

[Ersula]

some nelves become wisps, probably with Elune's intervention, she simply made sure all of them went to Shadowlands and with all chances to Ardenweald

And the quote is "in the wake of tragedy", implying the tragedy happened then Elune reacted. Elune's omnipotence is not that clear to be honest

But considering how rare an event like the burning of teldrassil was, that either means Elune wanted it to happen, or she wasn't doing much to help her sister without. How long was the Winter queen supposed to wait? 1000 years? 10000?

[Aucald]

Then it would be the only bit of datamined 11.2 voicelines to not be in the game, as everything told by Alleria is in-game.

EDIT: Found it; https://www.youtube.com/shorts/dJOhJE_dGvQ

I guess they forgot to include a trigger for this voiceline.

Ve'nari also refers to the PC as the Maw Walker a few times during the quest chain surrounding the Oasis Eco-Dome and the Ecological Succession chain. Seems to be her go-to address to the PC instead of "champion" or "adventurer," which would make sense given her history with them. I especially like the wrap-up of the Eco-Dome Al'dani questline when you return the Worldsoul of K'aresh to the world after defeating Soul-Scribe, where she finally gives you the eleventh of her many rules first related in the Maw: "Rule 11. There is no rest for heroes."

[Nerovar]

some nelves become wisps, probably with Elune's intervention, she simply made sure all of them went to Shadowlands and with all chances to Ardenweald

And the quote is "in the wake of tragedy", implying the tragedy happened then Elune reacted. Elune's omnipotence is not that clear to be honest

Well, none of that has anything to do with her being omnipotent or not. I'm specifically talking about her own phrasing of her actions given the information we get in the Grimoire of the Shadowlands and Beyond. If becoming a wisp is a rare thing (as implied by Shadowlands being the default destination) then sending a cascade (meaning a LOT) of souls can't possibly mean just making no new wisps out of the elves who died at Teldrassil since that would necessarily be a very small portion of the souls that died there. So I think that's a rather far-fetched reading. The more likely reading, to me, seems to be that Elune deliberately chose not do help them to the best of her abilities and instead let it happen to sacrifice them for the greater good of saving the overall "cycle of life and death" or whatever.

Well, it was both a symbolic and spiritual sacrifice so they can help create a new beginning for their people.

I don't really understand how sacrificing your soul to build a tree the Night Elves could have built on their own without any soul-sacrifices helps anyone. Bizarre concept.

Amirdrassil is also tied to both Ardenweald and the Dream because of it, and is the reason for why Azeroth woke up.
So it was not for nothing.

I'm speaking from the POV of the Night Elves. Not sure what they get out of Azeroth waking up.

[NikolaiShade]

But considering how rare an event like the burning of teldrassil was, that either means Elune wanted it to happen, or she wasn't doing much to help her sister without. How long was the Winter queen supposed to wait? 1000 years? 10000?

Elune wanted to help the Winter queen but could actively do nothing. If there is a problem with the writing is not in painting Elune as evil but not making her wonder if the burning happening during the drought could be in any way linked

[Nymrohd]

Divine or not before, during Shadowlands she was put on par with Titans and WQ, probably making Elune a member of the "pantheon" of Life

None of them are omnipotent or omniscient. Heck Titans evidently know only what they've managed to personally find out about the universe and they are strong but they cannot even exercise their power with precision.

[Santandame]

Now that TWW is over apart from minor patches - where does it sit in the expansion hierarchy for you?

It’s in the top 3 for me alongside Legion and MoP.

Legion >>>>>>>>>>>>> MoP <<<< The War Within.

[milkmustache]

Ve'nari also refers to the PC as the Maw Walker a few times during the quest chain surrounding the Oasis Eco-Dome and the Ecological Succession chain. Seems to be her go-to address to the PC instead of "champion" or "adventurer," which would make sense given her history with them. I especially like the wrap-up of the Eco-Dome Al'dani questline when you return the Worldsoul of K'aresh to the world after defeating Soul-Scribe, where she finally gives you the eleventh of her many rules first related in the Maw: "Rule 11. There is no rest for heroes."

Aside from being one of the resident Ethereal looney tunes, I would truly hope for more K'areshi content throughout the Saga (and further) solely for more Venari. She is an incredible, incredible addition to the character lineup, just like Bwonsamdi.

That said, I hope to god we get some Bwonsamdi in Zul'Aman.

- - - Updated - - -

Now that TWW is over apart from minor patches - where does it sit in the expansion hierarchy for you?

It’s in the top 3 for me alongside Legion and MoP.

Legion >>>>>>>>>>>>> MoP <<<< The War Within.

Ya know, I wish K'aresh was a little more fleshed out than it is, but overall I've had a ton of fun this expansion and I think it's a good representative for the state the gameplay is in, which I think is quite good. The story is pretty solid, and the worldbuilding was done extremely well.

It's all a really interesting situation though, because it exists so heavily within the context of the Saga. I was highly skeptical of the Haranir, upset at their announcement over other races for Midnight, and yet after a bit more of fleshing out, I'm stoked to make one and explore Harandar.

It's really all a gameplay cycle that is so unlike what we're used to, but I think they've started off on the right footing.

[Santandame]

She's a complex character

This does a great disservice to the word “complex”.

[Cheezits]

Now that TWW is over apart from minor patches - where does it sit in the expansion hierarchy for you?

It’s in the top 3 for me alongside Legion and MoP.

Legion >>>>>>>>>>>>> MoP <<<< The War Within.

Probably my second or third favorite expansion having played since Mists.

I rate the expansions based on how much I play them and TWW has me on almost every week.

[NikolaiShade]

Now that TWW is over apart from minor patches - where does it sit in the expansion hierarchy for you?

It’s in the top 3 for me alongside Legion and MoP.

Legion >>>>>>>>>>>>> MoP <<<< The War Within.

agree with you, one of the worst among wow's best expansions

[Khaza-R]

Aside from being one of the resident Ethereal looney tunes, I would truly hope for more K'areshi content throughout the Saga (and further) solely for more Venari. She is an incredible, incredible addition to the character lineup, just like Bwonsamdi.

That said, I hope to god we get some Bwonsamdi in Zul'Aman.

It interesting the Zandalari seem central to the plot of Zul'Aman but we didn't see them in any screenshots and they aren't mentioned in any dungeons or delves (unless I missed something). I wonder what's going on with that arc.

- - - Updated - - -

Now that TWW is over apart from minor patches - where does it sit in the expansion hierarchy for you?

It’s in the top 3 for me alongside Legion and MoP.

Legion >>>>>>>>>>>>> MoP <<<< The War Within.

I would probably put it in my top three as well. Basically really strong gameplay like DF but with an infinitely better theme.

[Cheezits]

If Midnight has a stronger final patch than TWW and the gameplay is just "TWW but better" then it may become my favorite expansion.

[milkmustache]

It interesting the Zandalari seem central to the plot of Zul'Aman but we didn't see them in any screenshots and they aren't mentioned in any dungeons or delves (unless I missed something). I wonder what's going on with that arc.

You're totally right. There was also some implication in there that the Zandalari helping them could've been remnants of Zul's faction. I remember that text blurb being a little confusing to the point where it could've been AI or outsourced marketing. I really hope they expand on that and bring everyone's favorite Loa of Death back to help them get in communication with their Loa. I love the troll lore in WoW and Bwonsamdi did an amazing job at furthering it even more.

[NikolaiShade]

It's all a really interesting situation though, because it exists so heavily within the context of the Saga. I was highly skeptical of the Haranir, upset at their announcement over other races for Midnight, and yet after a bit more of fleshing out, I'm stoked to make one and explore Harandar.

Haranir are one heck of a cool race. I must be honest, imo they really nailed the ARs for the saga so far. No idea if the will add ethereals, but haranir are really a great addition nonetheless

[milkmustache]

If Midnight has a stronger final patch than TWW and the gameplay is just "TWW but better" then it may become my favorite expansion.

Agreed. The foundation built for the future in TWW is amazing, and the gameplay features (addons integration, housing, etc) is just incredible on paper.

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Haranir are one heck of a cool race. I must be, imo they really nailed the (original) ARs for the saga so far. No idea if the will add ethereals, but haranir are really a great addition nonetheless

Of course I for one hope they add ethereals, but I agree. I was skeptical of them just being a night elf reskin, but they seem to be doing an incredible job at building them deep into the worldbuilding before anything. I like that they pulled them back an expansion to allow a bit more time to bake.

[vindicator782]

Now that TWW is over apart from minor patches - where does it sit in the expansion hierarchy for you?

It’s in the top 3 for me alongside Legion and MoP.

Legion >>>>>>>>>>>>> MoP <<<< The War Within.

1. Legion (almost perfect, legiondaries were a rocky start but was fixed down the line, class fantasy, storytelling and just general theme was at an all time high - truly the peak of WoW)
2. MoP (only time the horde v alliance war has been told well imo, I loved pandaria - I remember being in love with my main at the time gameplay wise, I was simply always excited to play)
3. War Within (systems wise the game has never been better, I think the 11.0 writing is some of the best in WoW - it's my favourite cinematic by far and the Anduin cutscene with khadgar by itself is better than all of shadowlands; it has never been easier to gear up and maintain multiple characters, which there is incentive to do because every class feels so damn fun to play, it's honestly hard to choose a main imo)
4. Wrath (not much to say, most people say it's the best - I love it a lot but I never played warcraft so I'm not as attached to arthas as a character, I was still kinda young so I didn't really fully explore it)
5. Dragonflight (like WW, amazing systems and gameplay, always fun to play - theme was less interesting than WW though)
6. Cata (first expansion I really "got gud", lots of firsts)
7. TBC (my first expansion, it's nostalgic but I was barely able to cap so)
8. BFA (overhated in my opinion)
9. WoD (Probably my least played expansion, which I imagine is common)
10. Shadowlands (Need I say more)

[Khaza-R]

You're totally right. There was also some implication in there that the Zandalari helping them could've been remnants of Zul's faction. I remember that text blurb being a little confusing to the point where it could've been AI or outsourced marketing. I really hope they expand on that and bring everyone's favorite Loa of Death back to help them get in communication with their Loa. I love the troll lore in WoW and Bwonsamdi did an amazing job at furthering it even more.

I think Zul'jin and his grandchildren will absolutely interact at some point. Which maybe could involve Bwomsamdi. Assuming maybe Zul'jin was rehabilitated in Revendreth and maybe joined the trolls in the Other Side. That or maybe Bwomsamdi just stole his soul back because he belong in his domain regardless.

[Cheezits]

I still think there's a good chance Karesh gets an additional patch worth of content, considering its weekly quests are very short (Wraps, Ecological Succession) and ending soon, and even its raid renown had several levels knocked off.All depends on when they want to reveal the full 11.2.5.