Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Tetley]

Is there any chance we could see more islands to the north of Eversong Woods similar to Quel'Danas? Any chance they might fill up the area and create a Quel'Danas peninsula? It seems to me that Eversong Woods + Ghotland is bit of a small land mass compared to the bigger zones we got since the new flying got introduced.

[Nymrohd]

Is there any chance we could see more islands to the north of Eversong Woods similar to Quel'Danas? Any chance they might fill up the area and create a Quel'Danas peninsula? It seems to me that Eversong Woods + Ghotland is bit of a small land mass compared to the bigger zones we got since the new flying got introduced.

Well we have two more zones but yeah, you will be able to fly back and forth between the only two zones that are connected super fast. I don't think more islands make sense though.

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Btw here is an idea (@Marlamin would love to hear your opinion on it)
Imagine if you can see a small island North-North East from Quel'danas, maybe an existing map like an Island Expedition (e.g. the Verdant Wilds). Can't just fly there from anywhere, very specific strip of non-fatigue water to get to it. Far enough that when you are there not much of Quel'thalas has to be loaded, just shapes. Not much there, a few mobs maybe down the line used for a secret. When you are in that island sub zone, it loads a different horizon in the skybox that shows the Dragon Isles at a distance. And it also has a similar strip of non-fatigue water leading to the Dragon Isles. When you are flying past a point, you do a seamless transition to the Dragon Isle map, far enough that very little has to be loaded. The exact same place exists on the Dragon Isle map and works inversely; it is the same island created twice. Would that work to connect two instances over open sea seamlessly without a loading zone? I could easily come up with existing lore locations to link the entire world that way.

Also btw do we have other scrapped isles datamined like Siren Isle? There was a Scarlet Crusade themed one I think?

[Xilurm]

- The "Alliance-friendly" section of the city is not Alliance excusive, it's available to both. Conversely, the Horde-exclusive part will not allow Alliance inside, with the statement that going there is going to kill them.

- That friction is a part of the story they want to show players. Alliance Paladins showing up to defend the Sunwell is all well and good, but they continue to hang around a place in which many think they don't belong. It's one thing to help, but another to act like you own the city; as time goes by, they become increasingly restless and the friction between those factions increases.

Very nice. Though I'm pretty sure at this point that we'll only know just how much each part is after we see it for ourselves in-game.

Not entirely sure how new Blood Elves will level after Midnight, though Maria suspects they'll go through a section of the new Eversong and Silvermoon City or use Zidormi to experience the existing leveling questlines.
(note: this is Maria Hamilton saying she isn't sure, it does not necessarily mean that other more appropriate gameplay teams don't already have the mechanics worked out)

In order to make flying possible, they had to reimagine the zone, make space to ensure the mountains made a gradual transition up into Zul'Aman, so it isn't as easy as just plopping the old quests into the new zone either, but Maria doesn't believe they're rebuilding the starting experience, so they're probably just using Zidormi to level up in the old zone and come back to see the new one later on.

This is weird... I feel like this shouldn't be reported on? It's just Blizzard speculating on what other parts of the dev team is working on. Like, what?

[Lady Atia]

I mean tbf, I'm expecting them to atleast make the old overworld version of Stratholme available to explore, just like they did with the Karazhan crypts, remove some of the fire etc. Otherwise you still would have the weird invicible wall around Stratholme, and make it impossible to fly from Tirisfall to QT.

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Yeah, it actually not being the Light that sends the arriving forces would also be my bet, but rather Azeroth acting through the Sunwell. Basically everyone who heard the radiant song being part of Azeroth's "Army of not ACTUALLY the Light".

And yeah, I know Kael'thas is actually really dead, but i still think it would be a nice call back, especially with his storyline from Revendreth. Have a good old bastarf Blood Elf in the fold would be nice. Even if it is a "we give you limited time here to help defend this place and then it's back beyond the Veil with you" situation.

I mean, we could still also bring in the armies of the Shadowlands aswell as Yrel later on as additional patch reinforcements.

And I fully believe Metzen will retcon Yrel being "evil", simply because it was another Afrasiabi fuck you against women. And WoD was still under Metzen aswell, they actually hyped up Yrels "Jean D'arc" arc alot back than. Maybe they use her as an example how the LIGHT can be evil, but we get a redemption arc as she realizes exactly that and once again helps us instead.

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It was? Dragonflight Centaur are the worst burial of a classic wow race I've yet seen.
The Djaradin feature from launch all the way to the last raid yet we never find out their origins. Like ancient earth giants . . . are they related to Therazane? Are they of Titan origin? Something else entirely? Did they exist during the Black Empire?
They did a decent job with the Tuskar but not nearly deep enough, we barely learn about their religion and beliefs, just small snippets and fewer than we got in Wrath.
We don't learn how the Dragonspawn were created; were they natural creatures, did the aspects create them, are they transformed dragonsworn mortals, did Tyr create them? Multiple things are implied but never explicitly shown. The Isles are gorgeous and we do learn a lot about the dragons themselves but world building should be deeper than that. By the end of MoP we knew myths and stories about every race in Pandaria.
The only ones that actually go deep are the Centaur and the focus there seems to be to strip them entirely of their classic identity as if it was offensive.

Weren't the Djaradin originally meant to be "ancient trolls" or something? Alternatively, we were meant to see the Haranir even earlier maybe to go with the Amirdrassil stuff but they decided to push them back to TWW (and Midnight later on), and these were the "ancient trolls" talked about in the original Dragonflight announcement.

[Nymrohd]

This is weird... I feel like this shouldn't be reported on? It's just Blizzard speculating on what other parts of the dev team is working on. Like, what?

Or just that dev did not know what to answer and after the original mess with Silvermoon maybe it is smarter she does not? Honestly seems to me she was not comfortable there and Blizzard really needs to focus on getting the right devs for these reveals because getting someone who does not enjoy public speaking in these situations is pretty much hell for that person. Plus it seems clear Gamescom was not the best host, never seen Holly flustered before but she seemed so there.

[Xilurm]

Or just that dev did not know what to answer and after the original mess with Silvermoon maybe it is smarter she does not? Honestly seems to me she was not comfortable there and Blizzard really needs to focus on getting the right devs for these reveals because getting someone who does not enjoy public speaking in these situations is pretty much hell for that person. Plus it seems clear Gamescom was not the best host, never seen Holly flustered before but she seemed so there.

Which is exactly what I'm saying. It makes it look like some parts of the dev team aren't aware of what other parts are doing. This is the thing that lead to the clusterfuck of a launch Cyberpunk 2077 experienced.

[Nebron]

Cinematic-wise, it's got to be:

1. Warlords - Blasphemy, but it's the one I've come back to the most, the most action, the most hype, the sting at 'but we will be conquerors' and pan to the Dark Portal still gets me.
2. Wrath - Everyone knows why this one is good.
3. BFA - The best trailer for an expansion we never got, shows off every character and location it wants to, captures their vibe and is constantly going from action beat to action beat.
4. SL - Sondrelk and Darkarath already covered it,
5. Legion - This one manages to be a complete character arc in about four minutes, while also being action-focused and hyping up the Legion and the stakes.
6. Mists - Fun, also this one doesn't get enough credit for the way it balances tone, from the more muted ship battle, to the increasingly exaggerated fight between the two, to the Pandaria reveal.
7. Classic - Purely nostalgia.
8. Midnight - I could be convinced to get this far as 6, it's similar to Legion's in capturing an entire character beat in one part, but it loses out on not having enough action and cutting off when it does.
9. TBC - Derivative of Classic.
10. Cataclysm - Derivative of Wrath.
11. DF - Boring!
12. TWW - Derivative of Classic and Wrath and also a clipshow.

Edited to be bigger, longer and explanatory.

I always liked cinematics that have the narration that doesn't neccesarilly correspond to what is happening on the screen - Terenas talking about his son, Arthas as a noble, morally pure, aspiring prince - while he's doing the very opposite on the screen at the same time give me goosebumps every single time. A similar thing happens with Varian narration in Legion's cinematic - a death letter to his son is a really potent and powerful move.

But then Warlords of Draenor capture literally everything - from visuals, music, story about defying the inevitable fate. It's so well-thought, masterfully planned and paced. And it's memorable - no wonder it's fan favourite.

Midnight had a massive potential, but it falls to the uncanny category for various reasons - visuals, average music choice, and that "smirkey", a little cringey one-liners. It could have been much cooler, if there was some unique narrative on top of the slow-mo images.

[Sondrelk]

I always liked cinematics that have the narration that doesn't neccesarilly correspond to what is happening on the screen - Terenas talking about his son, Arthas as a noble, morally pure, aspiring prince - while he's doing the very opposite on the screen at the same time give me goosebumps every single time. A similar thing happens with Varian narration in Legion's cinematic - a death letter to his son is a really potent and powerful move.

But then Warlords of Draenor capture literally everything - from visuals, music, story about defying the inevitable fate. It's so well-thought, masterfully planned and paced. And it's memorable - no wonder it's fan favourite.

Midnight had a massive potential, but it falls to the uncanny category for various reasons - visuals, average music choice, and that "smirkey", a little cringey one-liners. It could have been much cooler, if there was some unique narrative on top of the slow-mo images.

I think what in my mind edges the Shadowlands cinematic into the top of the list, possibly even beyond the WotLK one, is that it just works better as a trailer for the non-WoW fan.
The WotLK one, as great as it is, mostly works as pure nostalgia bait for Warcraft 3. The average person watching it isnt going to necessarily know Arthas or why what we see is impactful. Whereas the SL one does explain enough of the concept that you can show it to anyone and they would get enough of the basic gist to be interested in what is happening.

For pre-existing WoW fans though, definitely WotLK/WoD at the top.

[Nymrohd]

Which is exactly what I'm saying. It makes it look like some parts of the dev team aren't aware of what other parts are doing. This is the thing that lead to the clusterfuck of a launch Cyberpunk 2077 experienced.

Or she is just not 100% sure what she can or cannot reveal and errs on the side of caution? And the DF and TWW launch don't exactly inspire confidence. I do think they are somewhat rushing their launches these days by at least a couple of weeks to a month. Compare that to Legion having one of the most complex launch experiences and executing that almost flawlessly.

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I always liked cinematics that have the narration that doesn't neccesarilly correspond to what is happening on the screen - Terenas talking about his son, Arthas as a noble, morally pure, aspiring prince - while he's doing the very opposite on the screen at the same time give me goosebumps every single time. A similar thing happens with Varian narration in Legion's cinematic - a death letter to his son is a really potent and powerful move.

But then Warlords of Draenor capture literally everything - from visuals, music, story about defying the inevitable fate. It's so well-thought, masterfully planned and paced. And it's memorable - no wonder it's fan favourite.

Midnight had a massive potential, but it falls to the uncanny category for various reasons - visuals, average music choice, and that "smirkey", a little cringey one-liners. It could have been much cooler, if there was some unique narrative on top of the slow-mo images.

Good writing, good music, good visuals in that order. Midnight had mid writing, mid music and meh visuals.

[Jaggler]

I mean tbf, I'm expecting them to atleast make the old overworld version of Stratholme available to explore, just like they did with the Karazhan crypts, remove some of the fire etc. Otherwise you still would have the weird invicible wall around Stratholme, and make it impossible to fly from Tirisfall to QT.

If we travel to Stratholm with Arator, i fully expect the place to get touched up a bit. It would be pretty jarring to go from beautiful Quel'thalas into 2006 era WoW

[Al Gorefiend]

Cinematic-wise, it's got to be:

Edited to be bigger, longer and explanatory.

I am glad WoD won. It really is the best cinematic. I saw it on a best videogame cinematics of all time montage like 6 years after WoD released

[Nymrohd]

I am glad WoD won. It really is the best cinematic. I saw it on a best videogame cinematics of all time montage like 6 years after WoD released

It is also unmistakably Warcraft. I cannot pick between WoD and BfA. BfA still gives me chills. The vision was so clear in both of them. How the fuck did they do it so dirty both times.

[Houle]

The glazing of Bolvar and this claim that he was done dirty because Sylvanas beat him will never not be hilarious to me.

Ah yes, Bolvar the guy whose most hype thing was putting on a helmet and then napping for like 10 years.

Yeah check this, its almost as if the LK (as in, the position, no matter which character occupied it) is/was one of the most popular villains of the franchise, and almost as if it was originally hyped up to be a pretty big big deal that there "always had to be a LK", and almost as if the 2 previous xpacs apparently started building him up again to be an important character. Only for every single one of those things to be chucked in the bin, in one cinematic.

People werent really annoyed about Bolvar being shafted, they were annoyed about the LK being shafted. Bolvar was just the medium.

[Nymrohd]

Yeah check this, its almost as if the LK (as in, the position, no matter which character occupied it) is/was one of the most popular villains of the franchise, and almost as if it was originally hyped up to be a pretty big big deal that there "always had to be a LK", and almost as if the 2 previous xpacs apparently started building him up again to be an important character. Only for every single one of those things to be chucked in the bin, in one cinematic.

People werent really annoyed about Bolvar being shafted, they were annoyed about the LK being shafted. Bolvar was just the medium.

I think it is also that she low dif destroyed him solo. For a moment you think he has the upper hand but then it quickly feels like she was just toying with him. Had it been a struggle for Sylvanas, maybe had she needed the Val'kyr as back up, it would have worked so much better imo.

[vindicator782]

Very nice. Though I'm pretty sure at this point that we'll only know just how much each part is after we see it for ourselves in-game.



This is weird... I feel like this shouldn't be reported on? It's just Blizzard speculating on what other parts of the dev team is working on. Like, what?

Oh brother this is awful - why the fuck are we retreading faction tension again it's been resolved

[Nebron]

Good writing, good music, good visuals in that order. Midnight had mid writing, mid music and meh visuals.

Agree! Writing can definitely carry poor graphics and music - but then I'm musician and music to me personally has this magnificent ability to convey emotions that sometimes words cannot. And to hear that pretty generic superhero-esque theme when Army of the Light enters the fight, emphasized with "the sunwell will not fall -- not until we draw breath" with smirk. Holy molly, what a poor choice to build up hype

[Skildar]

WoD cinematic sends me chills on every watch. The only thing that I find regrettable is that Mannoroth comes out of nowhere "surprise mongrels!" XD
But it easily gets a pass with how unbelievably beautiful the details are, the soundtrack gets you on the edge of your seat, the stature, silhouette and demeanor of every character ooze strength and violence . The callback to Warcraft III cinematic is a bonus that gets old school franchise player a big joyful surge.

[Jaggler]

WoD and SL were reat cinematics, too bad they were shit expansions.

My favourite is probably MoP. The moment where the camera flies by Chen and pans over the Jade Forest combined with the music still feels great

[Skildar]

I've liked The War Within announcement cinematic with Anduin and Thrall. Especially because of how the writing is just right, a few callbacks, no rainbow-friendship filled peptalk, it goes to the essential and then the music drops on us with the visual of Gorribal. It's simple, clean and impressive visually.

I never understand why people like the BfA cinematic so much. It is almost the opposite of this one. The Sylvanas monologue makes no sense

alliances forged and broken. we have paid the price for sharing this world. We have forgotten what makes us strong

It's not even foreshadowing, we've already explored this topic in depth in Pandaria. It has nothing to do with the battle happening in the cinematic, it's just feels like random gibberish of someone not even sure what they're doing or if they're supposed to commit to starting a war.

MDN cinematic is amongst the weirdest, you don't understand what Xal is doing, you don't understand the power of the void elementals, you completely forget that Blood Elves are a nation of Archers and Mages before being a nation of paladins, every character not being a major figure is a footman... Do you even know your elves Blizzard? At least BfA showcased the infamous troll shaman.

Blizzard shouldn't have a ton of cinematic work in their pipeline with only Diablo IV and WoW to cater, maybe they could invest more in WoW like they've tried to during BfA.

[shade3891]

Are we clear yet on what Xal was before she went into the service of Dimensius? It might be incorrect but I feel like she started out as a silver surfer type of character. I believe I read she lost her planet but was the planet really lost or just to her?

Bargaining with the Dimensius to offer up other worlds/energy from our plane. Maybe her planet is her hostage and will be devoured she doesn't keep delivering.