Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Makorus]

Arthas, Garrosh, Gul'dan, Kil'jaeden, Azshara? I won't count Sylvanas because what she was changed every other patch. Heck, Lei Shen for his single patch appearance had more complex motivations.

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I mean sure, it would have been. But that's not the story so far. We had an entire expansion with her showing up left and right, where was that story? If it was true, why was it not part of K'aresh storytelling?

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Btw anyone else thinks the Void is very much Bleach's Hueco Mundo?

Eh, they did say WoW villains, and WoWs Arthas and AU Gul'dan are both extremely one-dimensional. It wasn't about interesting or entertaining, but about whether they are one-dimensional or not.

Azshara, I'll give you, Garrosh if you don't consider any novel stuff is also really one-note.

[Jaggler]

Eh, they did say WoW villains, and WoWs Arthas and AU Gul'dan are both extremely one-dimensional. It wasn't about interesting or entertaining, but about whether they are one-dimensional or not.

Azshara, I'll give you, Garrosh if you don't consider any novel stuff is also really one-note.

I would say pre-WoW Arthas was also rather... basic. I personally never got the hype around the character

[Limayria]

The void is just the void from ff14 lmao they really made those devs play ff14 ig, we're getting bozja duels the void is clearly inspired by the 13th

Now we just need a good Zenos rip off

I would say pre-WoW Arthas was also rather... basic. I personally never got the hype around the character

I mean he's pretty much a rip off of Anakin but there's at least stuff to talk about with Arthas, and the way uther and jania failed him is interesting

Like if Uther had trusted in Arthas's judgement the whole lich king/undead fiasco could very well had been avoided

[Nymrohd]

Eh, they did say WoW villains, and WoWs Arthas and AU Gul'dan are both extremely one-dimensional. It wasn't about interesting or entertaining, but about whether they are one-dimensional or not.

Azshara, I'll give you, Garrosh if you don't consider any novel stuff is also really one-note.

AU Gul'dan, between the WoD short and the pre-Legion audio story is very much fleshed out as a character. We know his motivations, we know why he is the way he is. We've seen his doubts and his choices.

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I would say pre-WoW Arthas was also rather... basic. I personally never got the hype around the character

But is he one dimensional? Is he defined by a single trait?

[Makorus]

I would say pre-WoW Arthas was also rather... basic. I personally never got the hype around the character

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's an amazing character either, but at least there is a bit of moral conflict in his character.

Wrath Lich King is literally evil and stupid for the sake of being evil and stupid. I've finished my Wrath Loremaster the other day and the amount of times he shows up and goes "Muhahaha, thank you for foiling my plans and exposing how SHITTY my forces are! I'll let you live this time, now kill my STUPID and INCOMPETENT minion! I will now leave." is crazy.

[Nymrohd]

The void is just the void from ff14 lmao they really made those devs play ff14 ig, we're getting bozja duels the void is clearly inspired by the 13th

Now we just need a good Zenos rip off

Or you know, FF14 also got inspiration from elsewhere for everything it did? Seriously, FF14 players somehow think fantasy fiction started at FF14 for some reason. Are y'all so media illiterate?

[Xilurm]

Arthas, Garrosh, Gul'dan, Kil'jaeden, Azshara? I won't count Sylvanas because what she was changed every other patch. Heck, Lei Shen for his single patch appearance had more complex motivations.

All of these were a different shade of "Me destroy, me gain power, me kill mortals." I'll give you that a lot of them are better simply because they are older though. I like Sylvanas more than Xal too.

[Nymrohd]

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's an amazing character either, but at least there is a bit of moral conflict in his character.

Wrath Lich King is literally evil and stupid for the sake of being evil and stupid. I've finished my Wrath Loremaster the other day and the amount of times he shows up and goes "Muhahaha, thank you for foiling my plans and exposing how SHITTY my forces are! I'll let you live this time, now kill my STUPID and INCOMPETENT minion! I will now leave." is crazy.

I think the Matthias Lehner questlines somewhat save him from being one dimensional even if you restrict him to just Wrath. As does the ending cinematic.

[Santandame]

Which WoW villain hasn't been extremely 1 dimensional?

Wow era?

- Garrosh
- Gul’dan
- Kil’jaeden
- Azshara
- Iridikron
- Elisande
- Helya

[Nymrohd]

All of these were a different shade of "Me destroy, me gain power, me kill mortals." I'll give you that a lot of them are better simply because they are older though. I like Sylvanas more than Xal too.

They also have multiple traits. They are not defined by a single trope.

[Limayria]

Or you know, FF14 also got inspiration from elsewhere for everything it did? Seriously, FF14 players somehow think fantasy fiction started at FF14 for some reason. Are y'all so media illiterate?

I'm well aware of the influences on ff14 but after they literally just used the Azem crystal in shadowlands and they're doing the whole "the void is full of people who wanna consume your energy" thing just after endwalker did it it's kinda hard to not see the parallels

I don't even think it's a bad thing but the way they're talking about the void in midnight is super reminiscent of the depiction of the 13th in ff14

[Nymrohd]

Wow era?

- Garrosh
- Gul’dan
- Kil’jaeden
- Azshara
- Iridikron
- Elisande

Oh forgot Elisande! And I think Iridikron has a high chance to join that cast as well but it's too early to tell.

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I'm well aware of the influences on ff14 but after they literally just used the Azem crystal in shadowlands and they're doing the whole "the void is full of people who wanna consume your energy" thing just after endwalker did it it's kinda hard to not see the parallels

I don't even think it's a bad thing but the way they're talking about the void in midnight is super reminiscent of the depiction of the 13th in ff14

Or you just have bias. What ELSE would the Void be?

[Makorus]

AU Gul'dan, between the WoD short and the pre-Legion audio story is very much fleshed out as a character. We know his motivations, we know why he is the way he is. We've seen his doubts and his choices.

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But is he one dimensional? Is he defined by a single trait?

AU Gul'dan has the problem of Gul'dan existing, which is just a way more interesting story than AU Gul'dan. AU Gul'dan is pretty much a Legion sycophant until he has the faintest moment of "oh but what if I take the power" until he doesn't and he is the same character he was in WoD.

[Jaggler]

"The Void wants to consume everything" is not a very unique concept, considering the closest thing we have to that IRL (a black hole) literally does that.

Dunno what the Azem crystal is, so i couldn't really tell whether that was something unique/stolen

[Santandame]

AU Gul'dan has the problem of Gul'dan existing, which is just a way more interesting story than AU Gul'dan. AU Gul'dan is pretty much a Legion sycophant until he has the faintest moment of "oh but what if I take the power" until he doesn't and he is the same character he was in WoD/Legion.

I don’t think he’s as much a sycophant. He was cast out from his tribe and abandoned by the elements because of how weak he was. I think his “loyalty” to the Legion was that he felt he was not only safe with them because of the power they offered, but because he felt accepted.

I do think it was a mistake not having Gul’dan take the power, for the longevity of the character that is. But knowing his backstory, it makes sense why he would fall back into that safety net of sticking with the Legion.

[Limayria]

Oh forgot Elisande! And I think Iridikron has a high chance to join that cast as well but it's too early to tell.

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Or you just have bias. What ELSE would the Void be?

Nothingness? An empty world where all possibilities exist in a metaphysical suspension with every potential moment of every potential universe both existing and not existing simultaneously

Or being a fundamental incarnation of entropy as a massive Eldritch mass seeking only to consume having no identity of its own and things like demnsius being named by the mortals it tries to consume rather than having a name for itself, just the primordial emptiness before existence that sometimes spills into our reality converting is into "never was"


But once again there's nothing wrong with blizzard taking inspiration from the competition, that's something they've always done no reason to be so weirdly defensive about it

[Nymrohd]

AU Gul'dan has the problem of Gul'dan existing, which is just a way more interesting story than AU Gul'dan. AU Gul'dan is pretty much a Legion sycophant until he has the faintest moment of "oh but what if I take the power" until he doesn't and he is the same character he was in WoD.

Honestly found AU Gul'dan the more interesting of the two. He has the better backstory and is the more effective villain

[Raetary]

"the void is full of people who wanna consume your energy" thing just after endwalker did it it's kinda hard to not see the parallels

The Void being full of creatures that want to consume you has been its most basic characteristic since vanilla.

The "all consuming darkness" trope is also present in almost every fantasy franchise in some form, if not outright as "The Void".

[Nymrohd]

I don’t think he’s as much a sycophant. He was cast out from his tribe and abandoned by the elements because of how weak he was. I think his “loyalty” to the Legion was that he felt he was not only safe with them because of the power they offered, but because he felt accepted.

I do think it was a mistake not having Gul’dan take the power, for the longevity of the character that is. But knowing his backstory, it makes sense why he would fall back into that safety net of sticking with the Legion.

He also knew what happened to his MU counterpart. And unlike MU Gul'dan, he knew how weakness felt.

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The Void being full of creatures that want to consume you has been its most basic characteristic since vanilla.

The "all consuming darkness" trope is also present in almost every fantasy franchise in some form, if not outright as "The Void".

Far older than fantasy franchises. Nyx

[Skildar]

Eh, they did say WoW villains, and WoWs Arthas and AU Gul'dan are both extremely one-dimensional. It wasn't about interesting or entertaining, but about whether they are one-dimensional or not.

Azshara, I'll give you, Garrosh if you don't consider any novel stuff is also really one-note.

Onyxia, Medhiv, Kael'thas, Illidan, Lei shen (even if it mostly comes from Chronicles, a lot has been layed down during MoP), Odyn, Elisande, Rastakhan, Zul, Azshara, Denathrius (even if I don't get the hype around the guy...). And I just thought of raid bosses that had the chance of living long enough before the encounter to tell a story.

WoW Arthas is kind of weird one, like Garrosh. They've thrown so much stories conflicting with each other that in the end it doesn't make sense. So he cast away his heart and lost his soul but when we beat him it's not Nerzhul, it really is Arthas... so he's still human? But he did merge with Nerzhul at some point so... you know what let's just enjoy the cinematic and move on, now he's dead anyway the king is dead, long live the king.
It's a shame because much like Azshara taunting us whole Nazjatar patch that she can at any point flood us, she doesn't but for a good reason, we are the key to freeing N'zoth. For Arthas we literally are the mightiest forces of Azeroth and he is able to kill us all and raise us as his champions of death, he just won't reveal his trap for the mightiest heroes one at a time when he can gather us all in one place and act out his plan. It seems ridiculous the whole expansion but at the very end, you're screaming "YES!!" almost as loud as when Illidan shuts the insufferable Naru calling him the Child of prophecy for months and months.