Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[huth]

There are MANY companies with FAR LESS employees.

Remember earlier expansions? Had same or even more meaningful content, more lore with shittier technology and probably like 3-4x less employees.

We need more enthusiasm in WOW dev team. And less personal wishes/gains/taste.

Ah, of course. If you just ignore anything you don't like, you can just reorder expansions to your liking in terms of content. That just makes you ignorant, though.

And sure, they should focus less on your personal wishes and taste. They don't seem terribly good anyway.

[Hitei]

Isn't that exactly what they did with Shadowlands, though?

Pre 9.0, we knew the Shadowlands as a sort of spiritual layer on top of Azeroth, where the ghosts dwell. Hence all the references to "the veil".

No? The Shadowlands were distinct from the veil and have been for years. They were described in chronicle exactly like the Maw, a confusing dark place of shifting mazes.

But putting that aside, you are still confusing two different processes. The issue is that the core identity of the Shadowlands is, and has always been "the realm of the dead, where spirits (mostly) go when they die". Nothing about it was predicated on a specific sort of terrain or look. It's always just been the afterlife, it didn't matter if it was a spooky forest, or rocky canyons, or a desert, or an floating city-sized ghost citadel, or a swampy land of decay and rot. Because the identity of it is thematic: the dead, spirits.

The core identity of the Emerald Dream is a lush, dreamlike, verdant wildland of untamed growing things. It's not a giant floating high tech titan city, or large desert, or rocky canyons, or sandy tropical islands. Unlike the Shadowlands, its identity is a very specific sort of place.

Let me illustrate the difference.

Here is a random piece of concept art totally unrelated to wow:



This could easily have been a zone in the Shadowlands. It could have been Revendreth, and Revendreth could have been all about the Venthyr, a bunch of sentient fire millipedes, using fire and brimstone to torture souls into repenting. It could have been a zone with nothing to do with vampires, or forests or gothic swamplands, and it would still fit perfectly fine in that expansion, because it was just about various realms full of dead spirits.

This COULD NOT fit easily into an Emerald Dream expansion. Because it is wholly antithetical to what the Emerald Dream is as a concept and its long established identity. Sure, Blizzard could shove it in, but they'd have to come up with some convoluted reason for why an entire zone of place that's supposed to be a lush verdant wildland with no people in it is instead a lava-covered, clearly long-standing civilization. And even after attempting to justify why this place that's the exact opposite of what an Emerald Dream zone should look like is in the Dream, you'd still be left with 1/5 of your ED expansion "continent" looking visually out of place in the Emerald Dream.

Now imagine this happening for 3 other zones, because you want visual variety and interest, so now your Emerald Dream map that players are expecting, based on lore and the well established identity of the Emerald Dream, to look like this:


instead looks like this:



That is the problem with a hypothetical ED expansion. It has a long-established and continually reinforced aesthetic and terrain to it. I agree, it's possible to force the issue, to completely rewrite what the ED is, and end up with an expansion that has one dedicated Emerald Dream™ zone, and four brand new zones that aren't anything like what the dream has historically been represented as.

But when why are you bothering? If you're going to have one distinctly ED zone and four "new place" zones; deserts and underwater reefs and large titan facilities, why bother trampling all over the identity of the Dream, instead of doing what DF is doing right now: Just put that one distinctly ED zone into an expansion as a standalone "The Emerald Dream" patch zone, and have the desert, reef, burning dead forest and titan facility zone just be a new varied locale called "11.0: Avaloren"?

Now you don't need to band-aid a bunch of lore for why the Dream looks nothing like it's supposed to, and you don't have to upset fans who expect the Dream to be a verdant wildland not titan zones and volcanos and underwater Jinyu cities, and you can just organically write a new region with its own thing instead of trying to awkwardly tape a whole new identity onto a place.

[Xilurm]

Maybe we don't need an ED expansion... not if it's gonna look like that.

[Dracullus]

Please no. Fated is just a crutch for COVID screwing with dev time.

It has nothing to do with SL being 3 raid expansion. Time for 4th raid and 7.1/8.1 like patch was "eaten" by 8 month Season 1 and again 7 month Season 2, while perfect length for season is around 5-5.5 month.

Fated raid cut last raid length. Before SL ALL final raids (beside Sunwell I think) lasted 8+ months. Sepulcher lasted 5, just like mid expac Nighthold and Tomb during Legion. So even if they had patch support sorted out, making fated raids at the end is good idea to cut length of final raid while next expac is on Alpha/Beta stage.

--

Now question is if they want use fated raid same way again, or make full season from it and shift resources to, I don't know, making new patch every 2 months from start to finish (I remind 10.0.7 is bigger than 7.1/8.1 without raid; 10.1.5 is big too, although I treat it as extra stuff to otherwise lackluster 10.1) . M+ seems to be more popular than raids after all, in current season even main story was told through dungeon, raid was side stuff.

Or increased patch content is result of better managment and more resources put into game. Both scenarios are valid, that's why I can see either one happening. I just hope that if there is 10.3, it will be some laid back patch (let's say Pirate island and raid, something like that) and finale of DF will be 10.2, cause it would lead better to Blizzcon reveal.

Maybe we don't need an ED expansion... not if it's gonna look like that.

For sure we don't need it now. At least for me, it's same cathegory as SL/WoD/TBC. Dragonflight is something like Pandaria or WoTLK, exploring wild continent. Imo now we need something like Kul Tiras or Suramar, classic fantasy adventure in more 'civilized' setting.

Of course full continent could be made out of anything, usually thing we imagined as Outland, Northrend, Broken Isles, Shadowlands is one zone, rest is made up.

[Xilurm]

For sure we don't need it now. At least for me, it's same cathegory as SL/WoD/TBC. Dragonflight is something like Pandaria or WoTLK, exploring wild continent. Imo now we need something like Kul Tiras or Suramar, classic fantasy adventure in more 'civilized' setting.

Of course full continent could be made out of anything, usually thing we imagined as Outland, Northrend, Broken Isles, Shadowlands is one zone, rest is made up.

If we get the ED as a patch zone in 10.2 like we got Nazjatar in BFA then I doubt we'll ever going to see an expansion of the place.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

It has nothing to do with SL being 3 raid expansion. Time for 4th raid and 7.1/8.1 like patch was "eaten" by 8 month Season 1 and again 7 month Season 2, while perfect length for season is around 5-5.5 month.

Fated raid cut last raid length. Before SL ALL final raids (beside Sunwell I think) lasted 8+ months. Sepulcher lasted 5, just like mid expac Nighthold and Tomb during Legion. So even if they had patch support sorted out, making fated raids at the end is good idea to cut length of final raid while next expac is on Alpha/Beta stage.

--

Now question is if they want use fated raid same way again, or make full season from it and shift resources to, I don't know, making new patch every 2 months from start to finish (I remind 10.0.7 is bigger than 7.1/8.1 without raid; 10.1.5 is big too, although I treat it as extra stuff to otherwise lackluster 10.1) . M+ seems to be more popular than raids after all, in current season even main story was told through dungeon, raid was side stuff.

Or increased patch content is result of better managment and more resources put into game. Both scenarios are valid, that's why I can see either one happening. I just hope that if there is 10.3, it will be some laid back patch (let's say Pirate island and raid, something like that) and finale of DF will be 10.2, cause it would lead better to Blizzcon reveal.



For sure we don't need it now. At least for me, it's same cathegory as SL/WoD/TBC. Dragonflight is something like Pandaria or WoTLK, exploring wild continent. Imo now we need something like Kul Tiras or Suramar, classic fantasy adventure in more 'civilized' setting.

Of course full continent could be made out of anything, usually thing we imagined as Outland, Northrend, Broken Isles, Shadowlands is one zone, rest is made up.

They shouldn't develop their game around Blizzcon timing and besides Fated raids was ok and not great but it was an acceptable answer considering what they were dealing with. I still do not think ending DF with Fyrakk and Vyranoth is a good DF end.

Of course full continent could be made out of anything, usually thing we imagined as Outland, Northrend, Broken Isles, Shadowlands is one zone, rest is made up.

*Cough* Underground expansion is now dead *Cough*

[Bsirk]

I really want them to shake things up next patch. I hope the world content is not just another version of the timeless isle.

New bg
Brawler's guild
New mage tower
Archaeology

I want to see more things like this

If there ever was a more perfect time to revamp Archaeology it would have been Dragonflight. We went to an island that hasn't been visited in over 10k years.

[Mecheon]

If there ever was a more perfect time to revamp Archaeology it would have been Dragonflight. We went to an island that hasn't been visited in over 10k years.

Not only that, but one of the big factions is archaeology focused

(honestly if we get the rock climbing minigame elsewhere as an archaeology thing I'm not gonna say no to it)

[Cheezits]

Blizz is just going to make a Lifelands patch under the disguise of an "Emerald Dream" patch to keep people from shitting themselves on Twitter.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Or its just a Emerald Dream related patch with some Lifeland tangents. Don't think they are skipping any cosmic realm. And twitter's(I mean X lol) opinion of stuff really doesn't concern me.


I think they should not have WoW on the gamepass.

[Bsirk]

Fated raid around June

If so, I could see 10.2 released in December, 10.2.5 released in mis February and 10.2.7 released at the end of April. This leaves fated raids to start in June that will carry us until new expansion launch. I really hope I am wrong and that there is a 10.3 though.

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Very much doubt WoW will come to Xbox. The Games Pass yeah, but consoles is a tad unlikely.

With how heavily reliant the game is with addons, I agree. However, I wish I could bundle my WoW subscription into my Game Pass.

[Revamp Man]

If so, I could see 10.2 released in December, 10.2.5 released in mis February and 10.2.7 released at the end of April. This leaves fated raids to start in June that will carry us until new expansion launch. I really hope I am wrong and that there is a 10.3 though.

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With how heavily reliant the game is with addons, I agree. However, I wish I could bundle my WoW subscription into my Game Pass.

Depends on the 10.2 story
We need aspects

[Palapop]

Ok, so... I just finished Tyr's Fall questline (yeah... I'm a bit slower when its about questing D: )

And theres 1 interesting detail.

When Zakajz uses different shapes to mimic dragon aspects and attacks Tyr. Theres 1 interesting detail- he DOES everything as it happened already.
And at the end Ysera comes. And he says (in Yseras name) "I will die. And dream will be corrupted."
That's also true.

We could see that in aftermath of Emerald Nightmare. Theres that "void tear" lingering within the Emerald Dream.

You guys think that will have to do anything with 10.2?

And does it relate to "The vassal of life disguises treachery. Beware the eyes of green."

It could also imply that Eonar is corrupted too. For some weird reason, shes the only titan that never got captured by Sargeras. Somehow.
And Emerald Dream is heavily connected to her. Am I right?

[Lolites]

Remember earlier expansions?

when whole of patch was raid and if we were lucky few new daily quests?
yeah we remember, if thats what you want go to classic, rest of us prefers to have other content...

[Lolites]

Ah, brings me back to 2015.

Me: "I bet they'll announce the next expansion at Gamescom, here's why..."
Everyone on this forum: "Lol no, you're being dumb. They only announce stuff at BlizzCon."
Me on Aug 6: ""

you joined in 2022...

[Lolites]

My account was a different one.

i see, and did you change it bcs of your gf who we dont know bcs she is from different country?

like i can claim too that i was in fact only one saying they will announce expansion at blizzcon, and everyone including your old account was against it...
so yeah, unless its from this acc, it doesnt count bcs we cant verify

[Palapop]

That's a neat theory. There's just 1 itsy bitsy little teeney tiny oh so ever crucial detail however...

The remnant of the Void was plucked by a champion of Azeroth in BFA, so nothing more is gonna occur with that plot.

Meh... missed that detail.

I guess whole quest dialogue was like a "reminder" then.

Ty for the info

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I might be wrong, but I think the Remnant of the Void was destroyed in BfA and it is suggested that N'Zoth was the one sort of lurking on the other end of the Rift. But I suppose they could use that for the story, still.

Looks like youre right.
Soz my memory fails me sometimes. :/

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when whole of patch was raid and if we were lucky few new daily quests?
yeah we remember, if thats what you want go to classic, rest of us prefers to have other content...

Yeah. Now you get few more wqs and spammable "invasion-esque" time rotation.
And it takes them 10x more "devs" with much better technology.

[Lolites]

Dude...

Even IF that is a new account, there are other forums and discussion areas beyond MMO Champion. This has been the case for a long time now.

which would be relevant if he didnt specificaly say people ON THIS FORUM told him he is wrong...

like if you want to take unprovable claims at face value i would like you to know im Nigerian prince, and i have offer for you that could make you milionaire

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Yeah. Now you get few more wqs and spammable "invasion-esque" time rotation.
And it takes them 10x more "devs" with much better technology.

so more content with more devs...
you dont like the content thats fine, but its undeniable we are getting MUCH more of it, and have a lot more variety than it had in "good old expansions"... hell back then class tuning, which is now done via hotfixes was mentioned as patch content...
you might say otherwise bcs of your personal bias, but you would be objectively wrong

[loras]

That's a neat theory. There's just 1 itsy bitsy little teeney tiny oh so ever crucial detail however...

The remnant of the Void was plucked by a champion of Azeroth in BFA, so nothing more is gonna occur with that plot.

We plucked it twice already, once in Legion and once in BfA. Plucking has never removed a void, removing stuff from a void tends to only enlarge it.

[Hitei]

The Shadowlands were described as the spiritual realm on top of regular Azeroth, behind the veil. We thought we had a clear idea of what they were. Until we didn't.

The Emerald Dream has been described much the same way, as a sort of green and verdant realm on top of regular Azeroth, inside the Dream.

First, no, the Shadowlands have been very clearly delineated from just "on top of Azeroth" since they began actively using the term after Chronicle V1.

Second, no, we literally never had a clear idea of what they were, because there was never a clear established picture of them, because some spirits seemed stuck in what's now called the veil, and others just hung out on Azeroth and others seemed to move on entirely to some sort of afterlife (read: the Shadowlands). Even chronicle describes the Shadowlands as multiple realms and planes. So there has never been a "clear idea".

Third, please don't bother to respond if you can't be assed to actually read anything, and have to resort to shitty strawman arguments. For the third time, "Realms of the dead" and "Green and Verdant realm" are two entirely different scenarios, one is a specific sort of place, the other is any place with dead spirits in it.

I'm sure designers and players alike would love to explore a more nuanced and refined version of the Emerald Dream

If the devs wanted to explore a more nuanced and completely rewritten version of the Emerald Dream, they wouldn't keep making it small-scale side content that you actively visit, and that looks like all the other depictions of the dream. Metzen himself, the guy in love with druids, said that the dream is a neat idea and they talked about doing it but felt it was too boring and too samey and worked better as small content.

You're Mr. "omg they plan out expansion in sets of three a decade in advance!!!!" and yet you're over here pretending that they haven't not only doubled, or tripled, but like quintupled down on exactly what the Emerald Dream is for the past 10+ years. Do you know what the ED was in Wrath? Green Azeroth. Cata? Green Azeroth. Legion? Green Azeroth. BfA? Green Azeroth.

The fact that we are probably a few days away from getting an Emerald Dream patch zone (gee, I wonder what it's going to look like!?) should probably tell you that they haven't 180'd. It's still a thing with limited expansion potential.