Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Kiivar86]

well at least from the blog:

Hm, good point, I hadn't seen that. Though I wonder if there's a distinction between "united armies" and the tribes as a whole being united. Splitting hairs though, I think.

God, they really did bungle this whole reveal, huh.

[Makorus]

well at least from the blog:

I mean, we had the united armies of the Horde and Alliance march on plenty of things, that doesn't mean the Factions are unified.

[Enrif]

While I don't think they would ever remove a race from a faction, I think you've actually touched on something extremely possible in the narrative, and that's some tension around the Thalassian relationship to the Alliance. I think tensions will be high not just because Horde and Alliance are in close quarters, but because there is a huge elephant in the room about it. It seems like the Blood Elves are pretty unrelenting on their ties to the Horde nowadays, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of arm nudging by Alliance political figures towards them. Maybe some more hawkish members will insist that the "reuniting" really means reuniting the Alliance and Quel'thalas, not just the tribes. I think that'd create a really fun dynamic of tension to play on.

i would love to see that. As the horde relationship, if we would be honest, is really strained for blood elves. two warchief's that pulled them into a war, against people they have maybe known for decades. Then also the history of the horde orc that aided the trolls in the attack on quel'thalas. I wouldn't be suprised that a big portion of the blood elves would have actually a big resentment towards being in the horde. The situation with the forsaken could also be seen as a tasteless reminder of their biggest national trauma.
But we see nothing of that, which makes it so unsatisfiyng. But as long as we have the two hard coded factions, i don't see really any way out, unless the devs would be brave enough to embrace a factionless system going forward.

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Hm, good point, I hadn't seen that. Though I wonder if there's a distinction between "united armies" and the tribes as a whole being united. Splitting hairs though, I think.

God, they really did bungle this whole reveal, huh.

I mean, we had the united armies of the Horde and Alliance march on plenty of things, that doesn't mean the Factions are unified.

well, i can take that information only at face value, in addition to the whole "uniting the elven tribes" that we know since blizzcon. And we know that Silvermoon has a four way deadlock with four military groups. I think that Silvermoon renown will deal with the uniting thing.

[Cheezits]

Not only the blog post but we seem to be getting storylines that are resolved, more or less, in a single patch. So if the elf tribe thing is just Belf vs Velf it will most likely get resolved by 12.1 as there is a Belf and a Velf zone.

[Makorus]

It's not uniting that was said, it's reunifying, which is different

[snatchr]

Do we know this for sure? There was an interview with Destructoid a week ago where they only said that "in Midnight proper you will begin that effort to bring the tribes back together" (to be specific, Maria Hamilton said "But I can't say" ahead of that but given the context she likely meant to say "But I can say" because otherwise saying that "you won't begin the process to unify the elves" doesn't make much sense for Midnight).

Doesn't sound like they unite by the end of the launch campaign to me.

They've said both. That the unification happens at the sunwell and then that midnight just sees the first steps. Because nothing about Midnight can be consistent or clear lol

I don't see the blood elves as the second or third, they are the most popular race on Horde. I mean, even the lore has been pulling away from the primacy of orcs for a while now.

Either both factions get Amani, or neither do. Anything else doesn't make sense and is certainly not fair either.

Will never understand the WoW bases obsession with self sabotaging fairness in the face of stupid decisions. Like the need for things to continue being stupid so that its all evenly bad instead of just... Not doing that. Amani belong on the Horde, Alliance can get something else.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Amani and humans have nearly as long a bad history as high elves and amani. So, them joining the alliance wouldn't make make much sense, as the humans are the main race of the alliance. The blood elves are not the main race of the horde.

While ya the Amani weee fighting humans, it’s fairly notable that as far as actual kingdoms go Stormwind never actually had any thing to do with them both being founded after the troll wars and not on there land.

While Lorderon and thus the forsaken stole the Amani land just like the blood elfs.

[Enrif]

It's not uniting that was said, it's reunifying, which is different

you are right. Uniting, that is what horde and alliance often do to fight back a greater evil. But unifying would be and end to a previous existing division.

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While ya the Amani weee fighting humans, it’s fairly notable that as far as actual kingdoms go Stormwind never actually had any thing to do with them both being founded after the troll wars and not on there land.

While Lorderon and thus the forsaken stole the Amani land just like the blood elfs.

https://warcraft.wiki.gg/images/thum...Map.jpg?16f521

i would rather point at the Arathi (who helped the high elves in the troll wars) and their most direct descendants the Kingdom of Stromgarde, with "Trollbane" and things like Trol'kalar. Speaking of Stromgarde, they got quite the focus in TWW, even if it could have been handled a bit better.

[Ersula]

Will never understand the WoW bases obsession with self sabotaging fairness in the face of stupid decisions. Like the need for things to continue being stupid so that its all evenly bad instead of just... Not doing that. Amani belong on the Horde, Alliance can get something else.

But everyone says this but it really doesn't make sense. You're just saying that because Amani are trolls. Trolls are in the Horde, but the Amani have no sympathies or connections with the Zandalari or Darkspear. The most pertinent factor is that they've been at war with Silvermoon for thousands of years. 1000+ years of elf bloodshed. It's not impossible but that Zul'aman storyline would have to be a doozy.

People still have a problem with Blood Elves in the Horde....Amani in the horde make way less sense.

[Makorus]

But everyone says this but it really doesn't make sense. You're just saying that because Amani are trolls. Trolls are in the Horde, but the Amani have no sympathies or connections with the Zandalari or Darkspear. The most pertinent factor is that they've been at war with Silvermoon for thousands of years. 1000+ years of elf bloodshed. It's not impossible but that Zul'aman storyline would have to be a doozy.

People still have a problem with Blood Elves in the Horde....Amani in the horde make way less sense.

You could literally make the except same argument about the Zandalari.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

i would rather point at the Arathi (who helped the high elves in the troll wars) and their most direct descendants the Kingdom of Stromgarde, with "Trollbane" and things like Trol'kalar. Speaking of Stromgarde, they got quite the focus in TWW, even if it could have been handled a bit better.

I don’t really think you could say any human kingdom is more direct given that they all started from Storm, The trollbane line is just the obviously most notable family but all the humans took part.

Hell given that the trolls cared more about there land then actual lost of life I doudt they would be as angry at Storm who doesn’t hold any of there land compared to lorderon who’s made up internally of it.

[Rathwell]

...the Amani have no sympathies or connections with the Zandalari or Darkspear. The most pertinent factor is that they've been at war with Silvermoon for thousands of years. 1000+ years of elf bloodshed. It's not impossible but that Zul'aman storyline would have to be a doozy.

You're right, I guess we've no choice but to remove the Blood Elves from the Horde and put 'em on the Alliance to make this all work!

[Ersula]

You could literally make the except same argument about the Zandalari.

Good point. The Zandalari also fought the Amani for generations.

[Makorus]

Good point. The Zandalari also fought the Amani for generations.

... No, I am talking about the Zandalari joining the Horde.

In a vacuum, before knowing anything that happens in BfA, that is just as nonsensical.

[Sondrelk]

... No, I am talking about the Zandalari joining the Horde.

In a vacuum, before knowing anything that happens in BfA, that is just as nonsensical.

Prior to BfA, the only time the Zandalari were overtly hostile was during MoP, which was easy enough to retcon into a splinter faction.
The Amani have always been at war with the Blood Elves and Humans. There isnt a splinter faction you could point to that could be vilified.

[Jaggler]

Prior to BfA, the only time the Zandalari were overtly hostile was during MoP, which was easy enough to retcon into a splinter faction.
The Amani have always been at war with the Blood Elves and Humans. There isnt a splinter faction you could point to that could be vilified.

Well, they were also a bit hostile during Cata.

[Enrif]

I don’t really think you could say any human kingdom is more direct given that they all started from Storm, The trollbane line is just the obviously most notable family but all the humans took part.

Hell given that the trolls cared more about there land then actual lost of life I doudt they would be as angry at Storm who doesn’t hold any of there land compared to lorderon who’s made up internally of it.

Yet, lordaeron as a human area is dead, as is any other human kingdom that occupied any land that once belonged to the amani. The amani had no beef with the undead, technically speaking, and might see the forsaken as a just fate for those pesky humans. And we also have to look at the amani empire before the troll wars, and we see all of stromgarde and nearly up until uldaman was theirs. So, the stromian humans are just as much occupiers for them, as any other human, with the only exceptions perhaps be the stormwind humans, which were too far south

[Sondrelk]

Well, they were also a bit hostile during Cata.

That's true, forgot they were the instigators for the updated Zul'Gurub dungeon.
Still, it was the same group.

[FossilFree]

Will never understand the WoW bases obsession with self sabotaging fairness in the face of stupid decisions. Like the need for things to continue being stupid so that its all evenly bad instead of just... Not doing that. Amani belong on the Horde, Alliance can get something else.

Why is it okay for the Horde to get Earthen dwarves but Alliance can't have the equivalent with Amani trolls?

Why is it every time something Alliance themed goes to Horde it's okay, but every time Alliance wants something from Horde, it's the end of the world?

Blood elves, Nightborne, and Earthen. All Alliance coded, but now core to the Horde? That's just fine? But not Alliance trolls! Oh the humanity!

The coddling of Horde crybabies has gotten out of control. There are two factions, both deserve fair distribution of races.

I mean, we could always remove Blood elves, Nightborne, and Earthen from the Horde, if orc coding is THAT important. But of course that won't happen, and the Horde bias and hand holding will continue.

[Jaggler]

We need to make elf outside of the containment thread a criminal offense