Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[micwini]

We need to make elf outside of the containment thread a criminal offense

Yeah not sure what is going on.
One day I check in and its High Elf talk.
Another day I check in and people are talking about hairstyles.
Then elves again.

Not sure what this has to do with WSS speculation. It goes way off course lots of times.

[Ersula]

I got to say this trip down memory lane with legion remix really makes the subsequent expansions look like crap. Order hall questlines have way more detail, especially the scenarios.

[huth]

Yet, lordaeron as a human area is dead, as is any other human kingdom that occupied any land that once belonged to the amani. The amani had no beef with the undead, technically speaking, and might see the forsaken as a just fate for those pesky humans. And we also have to look at the amani empire before the troll wars, and we see all of stromgarde and nearly up until uldaman was theirs. So, the stromian humans are just as much occupiers for them, as any other human, with the only exceptions perhaps be the stormwind humans, which were too far south

Should have told Danath about that before we got that questline. Apparently his kingdom doesn't actually exist.

[Enrif]

Yeah not sure what is going on.
One day I check in and its High Elf talk.
Another day I check in and people are talking about hairstyles.
Then elves again.

Not sure what this has to do with WSS speculation. It goes way off course lots of times.

well, the next installment of the WSS is based in Quel'thalas, home to the high elves. If anything, now is the most appropriate time to talk about them.

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Should have told Danath about that before we got that questline. Apparently his kingdom doesn't actually exist.

his kingdom barely holds together. If not for the victory of the alliance during the fourth war, there wouldn't be a stromgarde. Up till BfA Stromgarde was on its deathbed.

[micwini]

well, the next installment of the WSS is based in Quel'thalas, home to the high elves. If anything, now is the most appropriate time to talk about them.

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his kingdom barely holds together. If not for the victory of the alliance during the fourth war, there wouldn't be a stromgarde. Up till BfA Stromgarde was on its deathbed.

There is a difference between "They could be coming/not coming, here's why:" and pages upon pages off discussion what a high elf is, how void elves/blood elves are already playable high elves, etc.

[Sondrelk]

I got to say this trip down memory lane with legion remix really makes the subsequent expansions look like crap. Order hall questlines have way more detail, especially the scenarios.

That's because most of the questlines outside them are pretty terrible. The insurrection storyline was amazing, but let's not forget how 7.2 had actual jack shit for campaign, and that your fill of narrative came in two burts of questlines, once for the new Order Hall champion, and once for the new mount.

[Ersula]

That's because most of the questlines outside them are pretty terrible. The insurrection storyline was amazing, but let's not forget how 7.2 had actual jack shit for campaign, and that your fill of narrative came in two burts of questlines, once for the new Order Hall champion, and once for the new mount.

But 7.1 & 7.3 were really good too. And the allied race acquisition quests.

[Tourmaline]

Please tell me when Alleria and the High Elves of outland betrayed Silvermoon? From their perspective, Silvermoon and their Prince betrayed their allies when they sold out to demons, and found out that they pacted with the horde, the enemy they went to hunt down when they crossed the dark portal? In the eyes of high elves, the blood elves betrayed all they stood for.

The elves of Allerian Stronghold are the only group of High Elves (aside from those not yet born) who can't be reasonably considered to have betrayed Silvermoon. There is a reason they are the one group of High Elves that's officially allowed access to the Sunwell, despite their affiliation with the Alliance.

The other High Elves that ignored King Anasterion's orders to return home when Quel'Thalas left the Alliance are effectively deserters who defected to the Alliance.

High Elves again abandoned Silvermoon by not returning to their former home to rebuild and reclaim after Arthas destroyed it. If they had returned, they would be Blood Elves. Not going back is the reason they remained High Elves and not Blood Elves. To be fair, the High Elves inhabiting some of the distant lodges may never have called Quel'Thalas home and didn't have much reason to go to rebuild a place they never considered theirs.

The High Elves of Dalaran betrayed their (now former) Prince and the Blood Elves by not lifting a finger to stop Garithos and help their countrymen when they were held prisoner in Dalaran. Rommath makes it clear that some Blood Elves (including himself) blame all of Dalaran and the Kirin Tor for being complicit in their capture and incarceration, though he does not specifically mention the High Elves.

I mean they addressed this directly in shadow of the sun, it was the blood elfs who exiled those who didn’t want to feed off the living and then the blood elfs allies in the forsaken who started killing the high elfs of the lodges.

It was very much the blood elfs betraying the high elfs.

"In the Shadow of the Sun" tells the story of Lor'themar exiling a group of Blood Elf Farstriders and a Priest to Quel'lithien Lodge. They clearly renounced the Blood Elf name after being abandoned (and who can blame them?) by the time players meet them in-game. There are no known connections between this group of elves and the other High Elves dispersed throughout the Eastern Kingdoms.

If there is another group of exiled Blood Elves "In the Shadow of the Sun" does not depict them.

[Enrif]

There is a difference between "They could be coming/not coming, here's why:" and pages upon pages off discussion what a high elf is, how void elves/blood elves are already playable high elves, etc.

well, those things will always go out of hand, as it is a emotionally charged topic since at least TBC. I tried to bring it up in a different way with the Silvermoon Event with the 4 military groups, but no one took that opportunity

[milkmustache]

well, those things will always go out of hand, as it is a emotionally charged topic since at least TBC. I tried to bring it up in a different way with the Silvermoon Event with the 4 military groups, but no one took that opportunity

I fully expect the Silvermoon Court grouping to be Blood Knights, Farstriders, Magisters and one other probably more faithfully light related.

[Enrif]

The High Elves of Dalaran betrayed their (now former) Prince and the Blood Elves by not lifting a finger to stop Garithos and help their countrymen when they were held prisoner in Dalaran. Rommath makes it clear that some Blood Elves (including himself) blame all of Dalaran and the Kirin Tor for being complicit in their capture and incarceration, though he does not specifically mention the High Elves.

You may forget the little part about Dalarans destruction? Silvermoon wasn't the only city that fell. And the elves that called dalaran home for decades or even centuries might have been inclined to help were they are right now? Dalaran was like a second home to many high elves.

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I fully expect the Silvermoon Court grouping to be Blood Knights, Farstriders, Magisters and one other probably more faithfully light related.

assuming it is only blood elf military groups: how does the Aldor/Scryer comparison make sense here? They should be all pretty aligned in their defense of Silvermoon, as they all are under the grand command of Lor'themar, are they not? The Aldor/Scryer situation would make more sense with people who are allowed in Silvermoon but are not under the same supreme command

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Yet, lordaeron as a human area is dead, as is any other human kingdom that occupied any land that once belonged to the amani. The amani had no beef with the undead, technically speaking, and might see the forsaken as a just fate for those pesky humans. And we also have to look at the amani empire before the troll wars, and we see all of stromgarde and nearly up until uldaman was theirs. So, the stromian humans are just as much occupiers for them, as any other human, with the only exceptions perhaps be the stormwind humans, which were too far south

From The look of night elf empire map the Amani we’re pushed out of the area of Strom/alteract long before the humans showed up. And unlike QT which is stated to be troll land Strom is notably referred to as human land that the trolls were making incursions into instead of the other way round so the trolls didn’t retake it after the night elfs left.

So while ya it’s technically troll land it wasn’t the humans who pushed them out of it and the trolls didn’t really care about it leaving it to the humans for 8000 years prior to the troll war.

[Pyrophax]

So, the stromian humans are just as much occupiers for them, as any other human, with the only exceptions perhaps be the stormwind humans, which were too far south

Well, yes. Stormwindians just occupy Gurubashi lands instead of Amani.

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well, those things will always go out of hand, as it is a emotionally charged topic since at least TBC. I tried to bring it up in a different way with the Silvermoon Event with the 4 military groups, but no one took that opportunity

In new devs article was said that 4 military groups are Silvermoon Court/Saltheril’s Soiree - four of Silvermoon's military factions. So I think its not about any Alliance faction or Army of the Light.

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From The look of night elf empire map the Amani we’re pushed out of the area of Strom/alteract long before the humans showed up. And unlike QT which is stated to be troll land Strom is notably referred to as human land that the trolls were making incursions into instead of the other way round so the trolls didn’t retake it after the night elfs left.

So while ya it’s technically troll land it wasn’t the humans who pushed them out of it and the trolls didn’t really care about it leaving it to the humans for 8000 years prior to the troll war.

Point of view, I suppose.
To Elves - Amani raided Elven lands, to Amani - they are returning their sacred lands. Both are correct in fact, just High Elves being ignorant as usual.
Amani maybe tried to deoccupy their lands, human mages holded too much power them to handle.

[milkmustache]

assuming it is only blood elf military groups: how does the Aldor/Scryer comparison make sense here? They should be all pretty aligned in their defense of Silvermoon, as they all are under the grand command of Lor'themar, are they not? The Aldor/Scryer situation would make more sense with people who are allowed in Silvermoon but are not under the same supreme command

Did Blizzard make an Aldor/Scryer comparison, or is that assumed? As far as I know they only said "Burning-Crusade era reputation".


Going off of the rest of the information given, it seems specific to Silvermoon itself. The Void Elves get their own footing and event in the Voidstorm.

[Nymrohd]

assuming it is only blood elf military groups: how does the Aldor/Scryer comparison make sense here? They should be all pretty aligned in their defense of Silvermoon, as they all are under the grand command of Lor'themar, are they not? The Aldor/Scryer situation would make more sense with people who are allowed in Silvermoon but are not under the same supreme command

It is Saltheril's Soiree. It sounds like a social event. Saltheril had a party while most of Eversong was under attack by Scourge, Trolls and Wretched and mostly cared that his wine and bloodthistle shipments kept moving. So it sounds to me it is more about noble house politics than actual military clashing. E.g. how the Windrunners always dominated the Farstriders, perhaps we find that other similar houses dominate specific military wings.

[Hearthfinder]

The elves of Allerian Stronghold are the only group of High Elves (aside from those not yet born) who can't be reasonably considered to have betrayed Silvermoon. There is a reason they are the one group of High Elves that's officially allowed access to the Sunwell, despite their affiliation with the Alliance.

The other High Elves that ignored King Anasterion's orders to return home when Quel'Thalas left the Alliance are effectively deserters who defected to the Alliance.

High Elves again abandoned Silvermoon by not returning to their former home to rebuild and reclaim after Arthas destroyed it. If they had returned, they would be Blood Elves. Not going back is the reason they remained High Elves and not Blood Elves. To be fair, the High Elves inhabiting some of the distant lodges may never have called Quel'Thalas home and didn't have much reason to go to rebuild a place they never considered theirs.

The High Elves of Dalaran betrayed their (now former) Prince and the Blood Elves by not lifting a finger to stop Garithos and help their countrymen when they were held prisoner in Dalaran. Rommath makes it clear that some Blood Elves (including himself) blame all of Dalaran and the Kirin Tor for being complicit in their capture and incarceration, though he does not specifically mention the High Elves.



"In the Shadow of the Sun" tells the story of Lor'themar exiling a group of Blood Elf Farstriders and a Priest to Quel'lithien Lodge. They clearly renounced the Blood Elf name after being abandoned (and who can blame them?) by the time players meet them in-game. There are no known connections between this group of elves and the other High Elves dispersed throughout the Eastern Kingdoms.

If there is another group of exiled Blood Elves "In the Shadow of the Sun" does not depict them.

How are they all deserters when they weren't even all part of an army?

How many elves just settled across Azeroth and had nothing to do with Silvermoon's armed forces? They might've been adventurers, scholars, magi, or merchants.

Would you consider some random peasant from Stormwind a deserter for not returning home on Anduin Wrynn's bidding? Somebody who just happened to have settled in Lakeshire or whatever?

In fact, I'd argue the elves that were in Quel'Thalas during the Scourge invasion probably went a little bit mad from their experiences. After all, it is they who suddenly started sniffing fel magic, enslaved a naaru and joined the Horde.

One might say that it is they who abandoned the High Elven cause, their proud culture and legacy, while the ones who chose to stay away are the ones who saved it.

[Daniri]

Did Blizzard make an Aldor/Scryer comparison, or is that assumed? As far as I know they only said "Burning-Crusade era reputation".

They did, but the amount of qualifiers used means we shouldn't take the comparison that much to heart.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Well, yes. Stormwindians just occupy Gurubashi lands instead of Amani.

Stormwind was unoccupied land post sundering, to the point that the only threat they faced were gnolls after a thousand years.

Point of view, I suppose.
To Elves - Amani raided Elven lands, to Amani - they are returning their sacred lands. Both are correct in fact, just High Elves being ignorant as usual.
Amani maybe tried to deoccupy their lands, human mages holded too much power them to handle.

ya I agree with you, though I’m on a trolls side of things as a troll fan.

I’m more so just pointing out that the trolls tend to hate people on there land more then killing them and the Forsaken and Lorderon are currently on stolen land while Strom was build on land they didn’t seem to care for post losing it to the night elfs.

[Ersula]

Would you consider some random peasant from Stormwind a deserter for not returning home on Anduin Wrynn's bidding? Somebody who just happened to have settled in Lakeshire or whatever?

No, but I would consider them part of whatever nation took them in. The problem is canonically, if any High Elf retainers organized to defend the Alliance, they work for Umbric & Alleria. Even if you RP as a it doesn't make mechanical or contextual sense for them to have their own faction.

[Luck4]

I don't really think you need to have huge questlines to explain ethereals joining either faction. I see multiple hooks for them in both factions.

And it's not like they gave the earthen any reason to join one faction or the other in the first place. They just wen whereever they wanted.

Ngl, I completely forgot about how they handled the Earthen.

Remix feels a bit better now but I dont think theyll get around secondary stat scaling.

Still not quite "remix". It's also buggy as shit.

Did they add "power" infinite scalling?