Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Nymrohd]

Oh duh, there's also all of housing. I imagine it must be, right? I anticipated a separate housing PTR... I still sort of feel that way.

The only thing on 11.2.7 other than housing will be some questlines so I doubt they'll need a separate PTR.

[Joshuaj]

Oh duh, there's also all of housing. I imagine it must be, right? I anticipated a separate housing PTR... I still sort of feel that way.

Either way, I'm getting my house early, cause I pre-ordered. Til then, I'm chilling in my apartment at Undermine.

[Tourmaline]

You may forget the little part about Dalarans destruction? Silvermoon wasn't the only city that fell. And the elves that called dalaran home for decades or even centuries might have been inclined to help were they are right now? Dalaran was like a second home to many high elves.

I would assume that is how the High Elves in Dalaran that stayed behind rationalized doing so. That does not negate the fact that they abandoned their ancestral homeland in its time of greatest need, or their complicity in the imprisonment of Kael'thas and the Blood Elves at Dalaran.

How are they all deserters when they weren't even all part of an army?

How many elves just settled across Azeroth and had nothing to do with Silvermoon's armed forces? They might've been adventurers, scholars, magi, or merchants.

Considering the notorious xenophobia of the High Elves, very few. At that time the only place with a notable population of High Elves outside Quel'thalas was Dalaran. The lodges were Farstrider outposts, and therefore military.

[Nymrohd]

Btw every time I do another quest for the Ecological Succession questline I have to wonder if the dev responsible was given some requirement for minimum time played required for the questline. Because having three quests in order that ask you to effectively just target the exact same mob in the exact same locations 7/7/8 times respectively but given one by one instead of all at once feels not just lazy but forced. It is like they were told, this questline needs to take 30 minutes at the very least on reset day. Like, why are the lassos for the necrorays on a 6 second cooldown while the rays spawn all next to each other? And there is a variety of triggers and activities since almost none of the quests are combat quests so I doubt this was an intern. Was it just someone not given enough time?

[Sondrelk]

Btw every time I do another quest for the Ecological Succession questline I have to wonder if the dev responsible was given some requirement for minimum time played required for the questline. Because having three quests in order that ask you to effectively just target the exact same mob in the exact same locations 7/7/8 times respectively but given one by one instead of all at once feels not just lazy but forced. It is like they were told, this questline needs to take 30 minutes at the very least on reset day. Like, why are the lassos for the necrorays on a 6 second cooldown while the rays spawn all next to each other? And there is a variety of triggers and activities since almost none of the quests are combat quests so I doubt this was an intern. Was it just someone not given enough time?

Like so much in K'aresh, I find it all makes sense if you assume it was meant to be part of Midnight, possibly as launch content.

Ecological succession was the event for that zone, and would have been somewhat in the vein of the Ardenweald seed minigame, where you keep topping it up for rewards.

Once it was pushed into 11.2 instead, a whole lot of stuff was left unfinished, and all the quests became dailies so they were at least not wasted.

[Nymrohd]

Like so much in K'aresh, I find it all makes sense if you assume it was meant to be part of Midnight, possibly as launch content.

Ecological succession was the event for that zone, and would have been somewhat in the vein of the Ardenweald seed minigame, where you keep topping it up for rewards.

Once it was pushed into 11.2 instead, a whole lot of stuff was left unfinished, and all the quests became dailies so they were at least not wasted.

The issue is that the quests are just poorly designed though. Even not counting that you are given quests one by one when it would absolutely make sense to get 3 at a time, things like e.g. the lasso having 6s cd are just time wasting and lazy design. Because you could have the lasso take 6 seconds but also spawn the rays with some distance from each other so players have to run around a bit to get to the next target and it naturally resets in between. Not have 8-10 rays spawn almost on top of each other and the player is just waiting for the CD to drop.

[Mecheon]

Why is it okay for the Horde to get Earthen dwarves but Alliance can't have the equivalent with Amani trolls?

Why is it every time something Alliance themed goes to Horde it's okay, but every time Alliance wants something from Horde, it's the end of the world?

Blood elves, Nightborne, and Earthen. All Alliance coded, but now core to the Horde? That's just fine? But not Alliance trolls! Oh the humanity!

The coddling of Horde crybabies has gotten out of control. There are two factions, both deserve fair distribution of races.

I mean, we could always remove Blood elves, Nightborne, and Earthen from the Horde, if orc coding is THAT important. But of course that won't happen, and the Horde bias and hand holding will continue.

Earthen have a history of being neutral. Deepholm's obviously the big one, but they were involved in quests in Storm Peaks for both factions, and hung around as Brann's helpers during BFA. Plus, well, TWW

Amani don't have a history of being neutral

also like, I'm pretty sure most of the 'no Amani for Alliance' posters are Alliance, who want something that actually fits the faction rather than the Horde's cast-offs. The only "We'll accept this as a troll race on Alliance" has generally been Dark Trolls

[Ersula]

Amani don't have a history of being neutral

In the entire history of Azeroth, the Amani periodically goes to war with Silvermoon, Zandalar & the Alliance. That's pretty neutral.

[Nymrohd]

In the entire history of Azeroth, the Amani periodically goes to war with Silvermoon, Zandalar & the Alliance. That's pretty neutral.

An Amani tribe has been a member of the Horde since vanilla. They even used to have their own rep. And by Cataclysm the Revantusk have some fairly sizeable holdings in Jintha'alor that likely makes them the second strongest Forest Troll tribe.

[Ersula]

An Amani tribe has been a member of the Horde since vanilla. They even used to have their own rep.

(former) Amani. They're forest trolls but they specifically *leave* the Amani empire to join the Horde....because the Witherbark keep eating them. That's typically how empires work. Individual parts of an empire don't get to start independent political alliance.

This would be a good scenario for the Revantusk to join the horde but those aren't the ones getting focus in Midnight.

[Viridiel]

Who do we think these four will be?

The call back to the feud between Aldor and Scryer makes me think they are not Blood Knights, Farstriders, Magisters and ... perhaps Spellbreakers? These are all the standard Blood Elf military factions and shouldn't have feud going on.

I'm glad they clarified that it is in fact Silvermoon's military factions, not just military factions in Silvermoon. There's no doubt in my mind that it's Blood Knights, Farstriders, Magisters, and Spellbreakers -- they are the military factions of Silvermoon, and famous for their disagreements. Spellbreakers are in a tenuous position, but there were a whole bunch in Suramar so a good chance for some new lore.

The four military factions all have very distinct ideologies and strategies, and have historically had a lot of overlap which has caused friction between them and meant they've struggled to carve and maintain their niche. The Blood Knights impinge on the Farstriders' historical position as Quel'thalas' defense force. The Farstriders are the most likely to be against the peace arrangements with the Amani, whereas the other groups are less likely to have the same grudges (especially the Blood Knights, given their recent turn as regular paladins, Catholic guilt and all). The Magisters have some members who never really denounced Kael'thas, some who have no remorse for the treatment of M'uru (a sore point with the Blood Knights), and are known to have frequent run-ins with the Farstriders. We don't know a lot about the Spellbreakers, but a conflict with the Magisters is pretty obvious, and I could see ideological conflicts with the Blood Knights when it comes to the Sunwell and its protection. I can't really think of a good reason for the Spellbreakers and Farstriders to have conflict, but otherwise the groups all have reasons to dislike one another and that's made evident basically any time the blood elf leadership are in a room together.

I have a feeling the reference to the lore of the expulsion of the highborne from night elf society will be part of the Spellbreakers' story. It's still not clear if they're retconning spellbreakers into being a night elf invention or if the nightborne and blood elves independently created them, so it'd be good to have that clarified.

[Hitei]

I'm glad they clarified that it is in fact Silvermoon's military factions, not just military factions in Silvermoon. There's no doubt in my mind that it's Blood Knights, Farstriders, Magisters, and Spellbreakers -- they are the military factions of Silvermoon, and famous for their disagreements. Spellbreakers are in a tenuous position, but there were a whole bunch in Suramar so a good chance for some new lore.

Still feels incredibly stupid that Alliance players are expected to be sucking up to and doing favors for a chosen branch of the military that will actively kill them if they take a wrong turn in the city. Why am I not spending that time supporting the paladin forces?

Just feels like the shitty Darkspear Rebellion/Battlefield Barrens situation all over again.

[Hitei]

Then...don't partake?

Not really a reasonable response. Putting aside for the moment that not partaking amounts to opting out of cosmetic reward groups with no alternative, one would assume that just like TWW's zone-specific-rep-events, actual player power gating in the form of things like bountiful keys, potentially secondary things like profession recipes, crests, valorstones, and meta achievements.

It's also not actually completely optional, because like any other version of this, it will be baked into the campaign that has to be complete for everything else. Much the same way that TWW's campaign involves the proscenium, gundargaz assistance, a quick version of the feeding crystals to the hallowfall beacons in the dark and helping the severed threads.


This is also just a deflection as a whole. The issue isn't to what degree the bit is optional, it's that the writing makes zero sense. They are trying to both write faction conflict as still being a thing and also simultaneously asking for the faction conflict to be ignored. Pick one. Either the factions don't like each other in which case the Alliance have no reason to be helping Horde miltiary groups plan a better party to get more political influence, or the factions are okay with each other and the Alliance are involved in personally assisting Horde military leaders with their political careers and shouldn't be being attacked by those leaders' forces.

[Eeram]

Not really a reasonable response. Putting aside for the moment that not partaking amounts to opting out of cosmetic reward groups with no alternative, one would assume that just like TWW's zone-specific-rep-events, actual player power gating in the form of things like bountiful keys, potentially secondary things like profession recipes, crests, valorstones, and meta achievements.

It's also not actually completely optional, because like any other version of this, it will be baked into the campaign that has to be complete for everything else. Much the same way that TWW's campaign involves the proscenium, gundargaz assistance, a quick version of the feeding crystals to the hallowfall beacons in the dark and helping the severed threads.


This is also just a deflection as a whole. The issue isn't to what degree the bit is optional, it's that the writing makes zero sense. They are trying to both write faction conflict as still being a thing and also simultaneously asking for the faction conflict to be ignored. Pick one. Either the factions don't like each other in which case the Alliance have no reason to be helping Horde miltiary groups plan a better party to get more political influence, or the factions are okay with each other and the Alliance are involved in personally assisting Horde military leaders with their political careers and shouldn't be being attacked by those leaders' forces.

This plays into the whole setting of the expansion tho?
Like we know the factions tensions are rising again an things are going to come to blows at the end of the campaign of the 12.0
So without seeing the quest an what actually happens id say with what we were given id say how silvermoon is set up is pretty good honestly an this is as a Main alliance player. i think ive got like one goblin.

ill say i dont like the writing but i cant judge Midnight without actually seeing it.
An if your going to play this whole "i am my character" persona thing i dont think you can judge what were doing until we do it.
Also I think you can have both in regards to the faction stuff.
the factions can not like each other but can actively help each other for the "greater" good of azeroth

[Ersula]

Like we know the factions tensions are rising again an things are going to come to blows at the end of the campaign of the 12.0

Wait, why do we think this? I was getting the impression the tensions would be front-loaded. Seems more like the horde is rightfully suspicious about a ton of alliance guys popping into the sunwell at the beginning & we're a proper "unified" front by the March Raid.

[Tourmaline]

I feel like we're just spinning wheels about Saltheril's Court until we get more information on who is involved and what groups/factions they're associated with.

I do feel like there is a level of cognitive dissonance when they try to pair serious conflict with frivolous seeming activities. But I don't feel like I've seen enough information to render any kind of judgement about it... yet.

Like we know the factions tensions are rising again an things are going to come to blows at the end of the campaign of the 12.0

I believe conflict coming towards the end of 12.0 is meant to be about our void vs our light allies, rather than Horde vs Alliance.

[Eeram]

Wait, why do we think this? I was getting the impression the tensions would be front-loaded. Seems more like the horde is rightfully suspicious about a ton of alliance guys popping into the sunwell at the beginning & we're a proper "unified" front by the March Raid.

https://youtube.com/shorts/QjPesrkfU...yz0VFzv-rQCAbD
Absolutely stupid to talk about it in a short.
But at the end when they talk about the last dungeon they talk about it.

I feel like we're just spinning wheels about Saltheril's Court until we get more information on who is involved and what groups/factions they're associated with.

I do feel like there is a level of cognitive dissonance when they try to pair serious conflict with frivolous seeming activities. But I don't feel like I've seen enough information to render any kind of judgement about it... yet.



I believe conflict coming towards the end of 12.0 is meant to be about our void vs our light allies, rather than Horde vs Alliance.

I mean, i think its that but i think they will just be used as proxys for the faction conflict we know Turalyon is heavily light based.
Unsure how Void will tie to the horde. but im assumption will be the windrunner sisters will come back since we know Sylvannas is coming.

[Tourmaline]

Absolutely stupid to talk about it in a short.
But at the end when they talk about the last dungeon they talk about it.


I mean, i think its that but i think they will just be used as proxys for the faction conflict we know Turalyon is heavily light based.
Unsure how Void will tie to the horde. but im assumption will be the windrunner sisters will come back since we know Sylvannas is coming.

Nothing about that clip makes me think of a Horde vs Alliance conflict, particularly the way they said "our allies".

I think the problem of trying to tie Light vs Void to Horde vs Alliance is that the people most connected to the Void AND the people most connected to the Light are all a part of the Alliance.

[Eeram]

Nothing about that clip makes me think of a Horde vs Alliance conflict, particularly the way they said "our allies".

I think the problem of trying to tie Light vs Void to Horde vs Alliance is that the people most connected to the Void AND the people most connected to the Light are all a part of the Alliance.

So we know that Turalyon and the army of light plus some other light bound people an creatures come out of the sunwell.
We know that our key players are Alleria,Turalyon,Faerin(this is a toss up)Umbric, and Arator. Along with whatever factions they hold.
So even considering the whole "Light Vs Void" are you trying to say that this is just going to be a full on alliance story line?
Who do you think "Our Allies" are other then are factions?

[Tourmaline]

I would bet real money that the Arathi from the Empire, not just Hallowfall, show up to fight the Void.

The Hallowfall group were supposed to set up a base camp and use their mages to create portals back to the empire to bring their army through to fight in Renilash. But all of their mages died, except for one lone apprentice who had never been taught to create portals.

Either we will find a way to bring them over, they will find a way over themselves, or the Light will bring them over probably via the Sunwell.

They will have a serious issue with having to align with void users to fight against the void and that will create conflict with our allies.