Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

The base of The War Within, the campaigns of 11.1 and 11.2 are to me excellent. Do I have some qualms about certain elements? Sure, but I think our biggest issues have been anything involving the Old World (EK and Kalimdor) because they just seem deeply uncomfortable by it and unless they can get comfortable its' going to be very hard to see the Elven Tribes reunification not end up as a elongated Gilneas Reclaimation/Legacy of Arathor. The whole A Plot justification for The War Within though was absolutely one of the low points and it kind of reminded me of the "We go and get the Primus's Sigil stolen so that the A Plot story can continue" from Shadowlands in its execution by the Narrative Team but like way worse because its the entire justification for the Live Service portion of The War Within.

Our transitioning from the Base Expansion to Live Service needs to be better at engaging and keeping excitement for the next Story moment it cannot be a "Oh, so that happened guess we wait now". But, other than that and the awkwardness of Old World (EK/Kalimdor) storytelling its' not like the prose quality has gotten significantly worse. Its just the way they handle characters feel more like possession/puppeteering than actually writing from the characters perspective based on understanding of their background and within the in-universe.

Obviously, I am not optimistic but I could see them somehow managing to pretzel themselves into some really good stuff at some point. But again, the A Plot is so hard for them to get right that I remain kind of unsure if even a pretzeling situation could occur.

[allegrian]

I still think that we just need more resources, more time and more possibility for the Narrative Team to have room in the product cycles. But, again I feel like they are just going to keep being weird about the Story and repeat "The saga is not over" and then when the saga is over it just turns into "World Revamp, please forget about the World Soul Saga" as a response to potential backlash (if it even occurs). (At least that's a positive in all this? I don't know.)

I just don't think the fault lies with the Narrative Team for the outcomes that could potentially occur here, the blame lies elsewhere on individuals and teams who laid out this grand vision of Story Focus and then just let it dry up and rot honestly.

There's certainly faults with the Narrative Team, their committee based writing and their cleartext storytelling while the character writing has become essentially puppeteering the character instead of a deep understanding of using the characters background to tell the story they want to tell. Theres' certainly some qualms and complaints I have and especially with how every time there's a Old World (EK/Kalimdor) story its almost always so stilted and written in the most "I am deeply uncomfortable with this and I have to write dialogue that make sure that I as a writer oppose that I've been put in a position to write this".

But again, what remedies can you have for that type of issue? Its not really remedial compared to just getting more funding, more effort, more resources and more support from the leadership and financiers to make the narrative product better. But of course, it is existing rot that does make it even harder but we're kind of just looking for 3 minute cinematics at this point to get things moving in a more positive direction with some energizing momentum. I cannot deny that all I really want these days is at least some signs of life from the Narrative Team before we get rid of this World Soul conundrum. (ho ho, they won't get rid of it will they?)

Again, World of Warcraft from a Narrative fans perspective is a game about lost potential. So many storylines, so much intrigue, so many mysteries and interesting things and unfortunately because I talk like a dreamer about it, I usually get punched out immediately because "no, game story trash and should stay trash 9ever" being the easy retort. Both Warlords and Shadowlands could've been some absolutely incredible expansions storywise but again, its just not the focus when there's more money to be made in the next box sale.

At least World of Warcraft is continuously getting better and improving elsewhere though, but man why did they have to market the worst aspect when its in these current conditions and in a structure that is more focused around Gameplay is beyond me. Housing will keep me occupied and whatevers' next on the Roadmaps.

I'm tired of all the pivots. They clearly didn't have a written origin and goal for xalatath in TWW. They are dropping the dark blood stuff in midnight already, and we stull dont know what the hell does she want to do with her power.

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Some of Sylvanas' writing in Cataclysm genuinely irked me, primarily the Plaguelands actions having zero consequence for her when being directed at an ally (Koltira, eventually mentioned and dropped because we have an apocalypse to deal with guys) and flanked on all sides by an actual anti-undead neutral order of paladins. Also the contradiction of her sudden post-gunshot death revelation of the significance of her resurrection and bond seeming to ignore her already existing familiarity with the Val'kyr in the first place.

But man, I'll never ignore how, for my money probably the best short story in Warcraft and a prelude for the best revamp zone story, amounted to near absolutely fucking nothing.

What short story are you talking about?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

It's because Chronicles is, whether you like it or not, an actual lore book that is a thing in-universe.
It is portrayed as a Myth because the Titans literally do not want the info to leak, and as much is said in game.

An actual lore book in universe which calls Azeroth the world of Warcraft and refers to us directly as players.

[Vakir]

What short story are you talking about?

Edge of Night.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I'm tired of all the pivots. They clearly didn't have a written origin and goal for xalatath in TWW. They are dropping the dark blood stuff in midnight already, and we stull dont know what the hell does she want to do with her power.

To be fair, it could be possible that they give her a monologue during the launch marketing that explains why she attacked Quel'thalas instead of claiming the World Soul (Most likely theorized she needs the Sunwell to do so but again lol just claim the soul? (Also miss me with the "SHE WANTS TO MAKE THIS ELF SUFFER", why? Don't get me wrong, I know characters that operate like that but usually their background story is kind of defined for having the sadist streak and picking their targets or obsessions) Its like Zovaal all over again, if the audience can yell at the screen that the villain can win then you as writers keep saying "no" and adding artificial barriers to the villains victory that's not good.)

Then, again maybe the whole Dark Heart submerged in the Sunwell turns it into a Voidwell or something. Whooo knows.

When it comes to the background info dump on her its supposed to be placed in the Voidstorm(?) zone but again considering peoples' reaction to the "Oh she's just Silver Surfer on some dumb distant planet who got turned into the Harbinger by Dimensius. lol" its probably not going to be easy to write background lore that keep her interesting until the end.

A lot of this does feel very zig-zag writing wise.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

There is, but I mean thats not new info, right?

It’s not, it’s just a reaffirmation, which is also nice to have with how fast and lose wow canon is.

[Tourmaline]

One thing I still hope is used when they explore the Light in more detail is Bridenbrad. Obviously that was more of a memorial than lore exposition but together with Calia and potentially with U'unat's "The Light has struck a bargain with the enemy of all." I think there is potential for a Light-based Afterlife in that plane instead of the Shadowlands. It could further tie in with Auchindoun; why did a Light-focused culture keep their souls away from the Shadowlands?

Maybe that's where Naaru come from?

But seriously we saw the Light interfere with Uther's death. It wouldn't be a surprise if they could do that with others of sufficient faith.

[Luck4]

Sure, but I think our biggest issues have been anything involving the Old World (EK and Kalimdor) because they just seem deeply uncomfortable by it and unless they can get comfortable its' going to be very hard to see the Elven Tribes reunification not end up as a elongated Gilneas Reclaimation/Legacy of Arathor.

I've a strong feeling that the "Elven Tribes Reunification" will be a nothing burger, and when some ask Blizzard about they'll say: "Haven't you seen the Night Elves, Nightborne, Void Elves NPC's in the March on Quel'danas raid?"

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I've a strong feeling that the "Elven Tribes Reunification" will be a nothing burger, and when some ask Blizzard about they'll say: "Haven't you seen the Night Elves, Nightborne, Void Elves NPC's in the March on Quel'danas raid?"

I mean, at least they're handling it in Base Expansion. So there is content here for this storyline.

Absolutely, it could be very thin with just a "Wow, we're all friends now?" "A hell yeah because we're friends now" "Hell yeah" "Lets go march on Quel'danas to showcase our unified strength and hopefully convert this to a kickass sequence (maybe)" rather than any actual maximized output of "stay awhile and listens" involving the subject. But we'll see.

[Tourmaline]

I mean, at least they're handling it in Base Expansion. So there is content here for this storyline.

Absolutely, it could be very thin with just a "Wow, we're all friends now?" "A hell yeah because we're friends now" "Hell yeah" "Lets go march on Quel'danas to showcase our unified strength and hopefully convert this to a kickass sequence (maybe)" rather than any actual maximized output of "stay awhile and listens" involving the subject. But we'll see.

Actually doing a real reunification story would require a lot of heavy lifting. I think it would need to require more than just some stay awhile and listens. But I'm not sure the writing team is up to that.

[Joshuaj]

Nobody cares if something is factually right. They care if it's a satisfying and coherent outcome.

You don't understand the investment because you've outright admitted you're - what, a Mists-baby, I think? While cosplaying as an oldbie with actual stakes in this, which is where it turns this for me from "well, everyone is allowed to enjoy this, gatekeeping isn't cool," which is still true, to "this is a disingenuous tourism of importance."

People of value don't care to this extent about power scaling or canon confirmation of their personal theories unless they're so completely insecure of their enjoyment in something that it's a narcissistic validation of their specific engagement. See Pyromancer.

You can change your social media handle to whatever the next bigger fish is in terms of lore hype, or delete and rename here, as many times as you want - it's still going to be empty.

You don't know me. Also, again, you're gonna get humbled.

Reminder that I've known WoW for quite a bit, but I personally didn't get fully into it til MoP. I still watched my dad play it throughout, and I've learned some stuff from him as well. Doesn't matter if I joined in late or not, I like to think I have a say in some of this lore, especially since it's more consistent than y'all think it is.

But you're hanging me cause I'm saying don't expect a big piece of lore to get retconned like that?

[Throren]

I do find it funny that the eco-dome questline is longer, more involved with more voice acting than the main campaign story quest, feels like a weird choice

[Joshuaj]

No. I’d only really care for the mops parts.

But if you have a a digital version to turn into a PDF and then weeeeell.

What part of the MoP stuff do you want to see?

[Eldryth]

I mean, at least they're handling it in Base Expansion. So there is content here for this storyline.

Absolutely, it could be very thin with just a "Wow, we're all friends now?" "A hell yeah because we're friends now" "Hell yeah" "Lets go march on Quel'danas to showcase our unified strength and hopefully convert this to a kickass sequence (maybe)" rather than any actual maximized output of "stay awhile and listens" involving the subject. But we'll see.

Actually doing a real reunification story would require a lot of heavy lifting. I think it would need to require more than just some stay awhile and listens. But I'm not sure the writing team is up to that.

According to this interview, at least, we'll only see the start of that plotline at launch and it'll span the whole expansion. Which is good, imo- it'll take time to do a story like that right, and given all the complaints about TWW jumping around it'd probably be best to have something like that as a consistent thread.

[Joshuaj]

It is fanfiction, focusing on the things enjoyed while ditching all the context and themes involved. It engages with what it likes and ditches what it doesn't, but it's very familiar with what it's getting at. It would be less bad if it were either more out there or more sedate. It's why DF is a lot less interesting to talk about, as it's less bad and basically divorced entirely from pre-WoW material.



It is basically Edge of Night, which only checking back while writing this did I realize is as short as it is, and the Cataclysm Forsaken direction worked backwards, with some of what I'd wanted from Anduin's holy bones worked in, from a selfless perpsective instead of a self-serving one. Honest to God, while it started as a pisstake I quite enjoyed writing it, it'd be much more concise if I didn't. I don't expect Blizzard to go anywhere in this direction, mind, what with putting both Calia and the elephant in the room that is Shadowlands' sorting system at the backburner.

It's not fan fiction if it's official

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The cope comes from believing that Blizzard will waste resources on the garbage lore added in Shadowlands. They'll try to incoporate what is salvageble into the old lore like making the Brokers related to Ethereals and former inhabitants of K'aresh, and scrap the rest that damaged the IP as they should be.

That's not how writing a multi-expansion narrative works.

[Ersula]

It's not fan fiction if it's official

That's not how writing a multi-expansion narrative works.

People are clinging to this idea that an new in-universe interpretation of the cosmology chart somehow retcons shadowlands lore, despite shadowlands itself doing this multiple times during that expansion as well. It doesn't. Nothings been retconned.

[huth]

I do find it funny that the co-dome questline is longer, more involved with more voice acting than the main campaign story quest, feels like a weird choice

Given that it has both the main campain quest shields as well as the questlog telling you to come back later, it seems Blizzard considers it to be a main campaign story quest.

[Joshuaj]

People are clinging to this idea that an new in-universe interpretation of the cosmology chart somehow retcons shadowlands lore, despite shadowlands itself doing this multiple times during that expansion as well. It doesn't. Nothings been retconned.

People don't seem to realize it, but the Chronicle and Grimoire cosmologies don't contradict eachother. Heck, Light and Shadow representing creation and destruction is still a thing to this day.

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Was a thing in the old lore, was a thing in 2015, was a thing in SL, and it's a thing now.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

What part of the MoP stuff do you want to see?

All of it as I have no actual clue what it covers.

[Vakir]

You don't know me. Also, again, you're gonna get humbled.

I'm not going to "get humbled," because I reserve basement level expectations in the first place. It's hard to be fully disappointed with Warcraft's lore when you've seen it have plenty a car wreck since somewhere between 1995 and 2002.

There's a reason the longer posts between me and others that aren't negative...are meta commentary. It's way more interesting to talk about how this thing is made, why, and what could've been done differently/what was done well. Canon doesn't matter, my dude. TLT can end with us fighting Chris Metzen's sentient asshole. It's canon, but it doesn't mean I need to value or respect it.

But that requires not being incurious and having a basic understanding of characters and themes and story structure.

I'm "hanging you" because you appear very simple. "This is staying and is canon!" is not an own or some kind of groundbreaking statement. Our point is that these things will scale back if they seek quality and are extremely mockable if they aren't. You're the joke if it stays, not the people who are incorrect about the better direction.

"Rhonin has a raptor army" is a factual statement. If I didn't believe that, and it ended up being brought to my attention that it was true, there would not be any humility on my part. There would just be incredulous laughter at the expense of the fucking hack who wrote it.