Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Woggmer]

I guess that might of been dropped because the other narratives in the game(Primalists vs Dragons/Titans) take focus. Its not necessarily how I'd done it(See the Black Dragon stuff) but its certainly GOOD.

I'm just wondering if Magetha Grimtotem is involved in all this, since one of her disciples (Kurog) was responsible for freeing Raszageth. That she's been helping the Primalists just so she could get the Doomstone back from the Earthen Ring.

[Foolicious]

Killing Xavius, literal source of the rift.
And i mean Thros' continued existence as per SL also reminds us the void retains a foothold. It's an offshoot of the Emerald Nightmare after all.

I think there is some confusion about the remnant of the void, the flower we picked in bfa, and the rift of aln. These two are seperate things.
The remnant gave n'zoth access to the heart of the dream and that we removed with the heart of azeroth.
The rift of aln is a natural part of the dream. There is some presence down there other than xavius, but we don't know what. Killing xavius just made it harder for the nightmare to spread since he was the driving force in legion. But others could take his place anytime.

[Revamp Man]

Sure its creative but its certifiably not what the Emerald Dream is: They can't stop reminding us the Emerald Dream is just a copy of Azeroth before the sapient races affected it; Could be a good setting for a wilderness survival expansion but, wait, that's what Dragonflight is supposed to be.So you're sincerely suggesting they're planning to release no wow content between 10.2 & the *normal* expansion release timeline? Why? How? For what purpose?

Don't do that
I never said "no content"
There's always the. 5 and .7 content plus any seasonal content

I believe that if they did so then it would be to give them more dev time on the next expansion and allow the launch to not be mid holiday season thus making it easier

- - - Updated - - -

Let's go crazy DMs with "leaks"

[Catastrophy349]

IMO, I don't think the number of "major patches (e.g. 10.1, 10.2, 10.3 (?))" matters as long as the expansion feels "complete" and not "rushed" to begin the next one. For example, if it comes down to dumping resources/time on the current expansion to work on the following expansion (WoD and arguably (not really, everyone knows it by now) SL), AND the current expansion feels "half-baked", then yeah, this is bad. However, if the expansion can tell a "fulfilling enough" story with a lot of content in "X number of patches regardless of the number", that is ALWAYS preferable.

In other words, having 3 major patches versus 2 major patches doesn't make having "3" better because of the quantity. Quality > Quantity ALWAYS.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

IMO, I don't think the number of "major patches (e.g. 10.1, 10.2, 10.3 (?))" matters as long as the expansion feels "complete" and not "rushed" to begin the next one. For example, if it comes down to dumping resources/time on the current expansion to work on the following expansion (WoD and arguably (not really, everyone knows it by now) SL), AND the current expansion feels "half-baked", then yeah, this is bad. However, if the expansion can tell a "fulfilling enough" story with a lot of content in "X number of patches regardless of the number", that is ALWAYS preferable.

In other words, having 3 major patches versus 2 major patches doesn't make having "3" better because of the quantity. Quality > Quantity ALWAYS.

By that logic we shouldn't have any content patches(Quality>quantity" so no.... not necessarily. Their content patch system is a plus and not having major content patches is bad and its irrelevant to "Quality/Quantity" arguments.

[Catastrophy349]

By that logic we shouldn't have any content patches(Quality>quantity" so no.... not necessarily.

I am not trying to argue that an expansion can feel "complete" in just a X.0 patch because by my logic "quality>quantity". I'm simply saying that the "crowd of people losing their minds over DF being only 2 major patches" need to realize that we also had patch: 10.0, 10.0.5, 10.0.7, 10.1, 10.1.5, 10.1.7, and obviously at the very least a 10.2, and possibly 10.2.5/.7.

If anything I am arguing that smaller, regular updates is a better model compared to just having larger "major patches". Again, people are forgetting all of the "in-between" patches and just focusing on the "OMG, 10.2? That's it? Fail expansion."

[Skildar]

I think the better example would be BfA which is clearly an expansion that blizzard worked on heavily, lots of systems, lots of content and lots of zones. But if they've stopped at Nazjatar with a better fleshed out zone with more interesting activities, etc. The expansion would have been better overall.

The last patch zones, events, activities and raid are great but detrimental to the story in my opinion

[Aeluron Lightsong]

If anything I am arguing that smaller, regular updates is a better model compared to just having larger "major patches". Again, people are forgetting all of the "in-between" patches and just focusing on the "OMG, 10.2? That's it? Fail expansion."

No we don't need smaller updates. Take away the Major content patches and the game will suffer. The minor patches existing between them wouldn't be ok if thats all that existed. I don't think the content plan of .1 .2 .3(Major content patches) are bad. Its what its in them that matters.

[Catastrophy349]

By quality>quantity, I'm not trying to suggest that Blizzard sells us "less content" for the same price. 2 Major Patches in SL was a disgrace, especially considering the size of those patches, the story content, AND the lack of much in between. 9.0 to 9.1 was like 7-8 months (9.0.5 was a "valor patch", in other words, a joke). 9.1 to 9.2 was another 7-8 months (however, credit where credit is due (although it still was a disgrace (IMO)), 9.1.5 gave us "Covenant swapping"). Now, look at DF for comparison: From the time it took us to get Patch 9.1 in SL (November to June 29 (THIS IS JULY BTW)), that is 7 months. In the SAME amount of time (give or take 2 weeks), we got patches: 10.0.5 (although small), 10.0.7, 10.1, AND 10.1.5.

- - - Updated - - -

No we don't need smaller updates. Take away the Major content patches and the game will suffer. The minor patches existing between them wouldn't be ok if thats all that existed. I don't think the content plan of .1 .2 .3(Major content patches) are bad. Its what its in them that matters.

Either I am having a really difficult time explaining myself (which is possible because of how tired I am today), or you are misunderstanding what I am saying. I am not trying to say that "smaller updates ALONE" is a better model. I am saying that having a .5/.7 patch between major patches is a great model to have compared to ONLY having major patches in almost ALL previous expansions.

[Revamp Man]

I think the better example would be BfA which is clearly an expansion that blizzard worked on heavily, lots of systems, lots of content and lots of zones. But if they've stopped at Nazjatar with a better fleshed out zone with more interesting activities, etc. The expansion would have been better overall.

The last patch zones, events, activities and raid are great but detrimental to the story in my opinion

8.3 seemed like just an extra patch
I know it tied up the N'Zoth story but imo it had a logical end point at Sylvanas and saurfang

[Catastrophy349]

All in all, I am 100% expecting and hopeful for a patch 10.3 in Dragonflight. What will be interesting is whether or not we get the last two Dragonflight stories (Red and Green) in patch 10.2 (similar to the Black and Blue in 10.1), or will 10.2 be focused ONLY on the Green, and Red will be a smaller patcher (like 10.1.5), or 10.3?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

8.3 seemed like just an extra patch
I know it tied up the N'Zoth story but imo it had a logical end point at Sylvanas and saurfang

It would of been really silly to just have N'zoth be free from his prison and not deal with it which was the whole point Azshara taunting us.

[Revamp Man]

It would of been really silly to just have N'zoth be free from his prison and not deal with it which was the whole point Azshara taunting us.

Having a big bad get released and left for future content can lead to good shit though
Imagine if we didn't Kamehameha N'Zoth

He could be slowly gathering allies

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Having a big bad get released and left for future content can lead to good shit though
Imagine if we didn't Kamehameha N'Zoth

He could be slowly gathering allies

They could of done that via a Time skip instead of *Prison breaks, Nzoth is unleashed and high up individuals of Alliance and Horde know this but nothing comes of it* It would of been silly if we dealt with Sylvanas despite knowing N'zoth is free and then we jump into Shadowlands.


I'd prefer only learning about N'zoth escaping his imprisonment as if it was a recent event(Like the inciting event of said expansion would be N'zoth prison breaking after a few years).


But thats off topic and not DF related.

[Murlocos]

Content cadence encompasses the entire lifespan of the expansion, not just the first year. Shadowlands had a slightly shorter end of expansion drought than usual; it came at the expense of abysmal content pacing for the first year. The PR pitch of Dragonflight releasing content more quickly than ever before becomes null and void if we enter a 10-12 month drought yet again and the most salient observation reached is "we used to get 3 major content patches and now we only get 2". Fated content is not a major content patch, even more so now that the gimmick has been baked into standard M+.

Blizzard is not in a position where they can turn back to implicit defenses of "that's just how things are" when it comes to content delivery failures, or even worse, expansion quality flipflopping between good and bad. I think plenty of people that are even enjoying DF currently are wary and curious to see if this is a genuine turning point for the game, or a temporary acquiescence to player demands before they try returning back to the throne where they dreamt up BfA and SL. A more lasting goodwill towards the team isn't going to be solidified until 11.0 at least (assuming they pull off a win there), they can't start fumbling a year prior.

[micwini]

Content cadence encompasses the entire lifespan of the expansion, not just the first year. Shadowlands had a slightly shorter end of expansion drought than usual; it came at the expense of abysmal content pacing for the first year. The PR pitch of Dragonflight releasing content more quickly than ever before becomes null and void if we enter a 10-12 month drought yet again and the most salient observation reached is "we used to get 3 major content patches and now we only get 2". Fated content is not a major content patch, even more so now that the gimmick has been baked into standard M+.

Blizzard is not in a position where they can turn back to implicit defenses of "that's just how things are" when it comes to content delivery failures, or even worse, expansion quality flipflopping between good and bad. I think plenty of people that are even enjoying DF currently are wary and curious to see if this is a genuine turning point for the game, or a temporary acquiescence to player demands before they try returning back to the throne where they dreamt up BfA and SL. A more lasting goodwill towards the team isn't going to be solidified until 11.0 at least (assuming they pull off a win there), they can't start fumbling a year prior.

This. If they release 10.2 and it's just another zone with rares, M+ season and raid and then this is the last patch with a 3 month fated season after it, I think the expansion has failed.
1. Class balance is currently a disaster
2. We are getting more patches, but each patch has less content than before, totalling the same amount of content overall. They are delaying content from major patches and releasing it in a small patch afterwards to give people an illusion that they are releasing more content.
3. The new profession system is a step in the right direction conceptually (more depth), but a disaster in implementation (too many reagents and a crafting order system that is a complete failure).
4. Zaralek Cavern is the most uninspired and poorly designed patch zone since, I think ever.
5. The tone of the expansion sucks.
6. The second raid has a nobody as the final boss (this one is worse the less patches this expansion will have)

The only good things I can say about this expansion is the rate at which they communicate and change stuff and the talent rework.

It's better than Shadowlands, but I am indeed waiting and seeing if they keep this up and improve over time, or if this is a temporary respite from going back to releasing sub-optimal content

[Catastrophy349]

This. If they release 10.2 and it's just another zone with rares, M+ season and raid and then this is the last patch with a 3 month fated season after it, I think the expansion has failed.
1. Class balance is currently a disaster
2. We are getting more patches, but each patch has less content than before, totalling the same amount of content overall. They are delaying content from major patches and releasing it in a small patch afterwards to give people an illusion that they are releasing more content.
3. The new profession system is a step in the right direction conceptually (more depth), but a disaster in implementation (too many reagents and a crafting order system that is a complete failure).
4. Zaralek Cavern is the most uninspired and poorly designed patch zone since, I think ever.
5. The tone of the expansion sucks.
6. The second raid has a nobody as the final boss (this one is worse the less patches this expansion will have)

The only good things I can say about this expansion is the rate at which they communicate and change stuff and the talent rework.

It's better than Shadowlands, but I am indeed waiting and seeing if they keep this up and improve over time, or if this is a temporary respite from going back to releasing sub-optimal content

You hit the nail on the head, for sure. Again, I want a 10.3, especially after SL NOT having a X.2 patch AND feeling incomplete. Additionally, I feel like there is "enough" story content leftover in DF for there to be a 10.3 to tell those stories. However, in the same breath, if 10.2 is a LARGE enough patch that is NOT simply a "repeat of 10.1 in terms of outdoor content/scale" AND we get a ton of story in 10.2.5/10.2.7, that could work, too. Finally, one "other option" that I am not necessarily saying would be good/bad (matter of perspective), but imagine if we got a 10.3 (not a fake 10.3 like the fated season being 9.3 "lite"), I mean a REAL 10.3 BUT it DOES NOT have a raid tier (so story content, outdoor stuff, maybe new zone/maybe not, new season (whether a "fated style" or a new season entirely)), that could work, too.

[Luck4]

If anything I am arguing that smaller, regular updates is a better model compared to just having larger "major patches". Again, people are forgetting all of the "in-between" patches and just focusing on the "OMG, 10.2? That's it? Fail expansion."

That's because people get used to the old patch name scheme where every patch was X.+1, 5.3, for instance, had the same amount of content we got in 10.0.7, and most expansions that had X.3/X.4 have the same or less amount of content of DF, the only thing that DF might feel a bit short if it ends in 10.2 is the number of raids, but people also forgot that expansions with more than 3 raids consist of multiple smaller/rehashed/outdoor zone raids.

I've been reading these pre-expansions threads since 2011, and every time people argue about a patch in the year following the announcement, if we're in patch X.3 then we must get an X.4, if we're in X.2 then we must get an X.3, it never gets old. Another common debate is whether the expansion will release at the beginning of summer, which also never gets old.

11.0 is the 10th WoW expansion, and people still didn't get the memo, the closest a major patch release can get to an expansion release is 8 months.

10.2 will probably release in November, and the Season will reach 6 months in May, so another 8 months would mean 11.0 in January/February of 2025, thus why 10.3 is not happening.

[Catastrophy349]

Yeah, unless something horribly goes wrong, I can't see Blizzard completely screwing up the 10th WoW expansion, 20th anniversary of WoW, AND 30th anniversary of Warcraft, all lining up for November (or at-least the year) 2024. Whatever they need to do between now and 11.0 to get it out before the year hits 2025.

[micwini]

Yeah, unless something horribly goes wrong, I can't see Blizzard completely screwing up the 10th WoW expansion, 20th anniversary of WoW, AND 30th anniversary of Warcraft, all lining up for November (or at-least the year) 2024. Whatever they need to do between now and 11.0 to get it out before the year hits 2025.

Yeah for sure. Just like how the pulled off the amazing 10th anniversary expansion.

.......wait