Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Makorus]

Maria also said that midnight features would blow players socks off. My socks are still on.
Take anything she says with a huge grain of salt.

It would make sense to see naga, but I can't see them playing a large role. At least at launch.

That was said before housing was revealed, to be fair.

[Ersula]

The Dragonflight naga booklet flat out told you that Azshara would show up pending whatever Xal does, it wasn't subtle:

People have to remember the context of that passage: It was foreshadowing the events of Dragonflight & the Worldsoul Saga...It's a declaration of intent, not a prophecy. The naga were trying to do what Neltharian was trying to do. But they failed. Irridikron & Xal'atath beat them to the heart. The naga don't have the heart & they definitely aren't wrestling it away from Xal. Maybe Azshara & the Naga were working for Xal'atath at this point, but I severely doubt it.

[Super Dickmann]

People have to remember the context of that passage: It was foreshadowing the events of Dragonflight & the Worldsoul Saga...It's a declaration of intent, not a prophecy. The naga were trying to do what Neltharian was trying to do. But they failed. Irridikron & Xal'atath beat them to the heart. The naga don't have the heart & they definitely aren't wrestling it away from Xal. Maybe Azshara & the Naga were working for Xal'atath at this point, but I severely doubt it.

Nothing much bears it out. Not just from a meta perspective, i.e this is obviously hype material existing to foreshadow future events, even that factually take place - i.e Iridikron does reclaim Galakrond's hunger and Xal takes the dark heart, but also in-story. The text is prophetic, it isn't a mission statement, the text foresees that Xal will do something (fulfill the final prophecy, complete the awakening, presumably of Azeroth) and then Azshara will take over. Xal'atath taking the heart is part of that prophecy.

[Santandame]

The Dragonflight naga booklet flat out told you that Azshara would show up pending whatever Xal does, it wasn't subtle:



Azshara was once the queen of elves and elfposters and this is an elf expansion. Plus Sargeras is coming back next expansion and with the cosmic power she's gathered off-screen since last we saw her she could've found a way to help him sheathe his Gorribal this time around. Just like Khadgar being dead Azshara not being in this expansion is fake until proven otherwise.

Isn’t that far more likely to happen in The Last Titan then? Xal achieves whatever she initially set out to do at the end of this expansion (hopefully being sidelined in the process). Azshara sees that as an opportunity to swoop in and take control of the World Soul, which prompts the Titans to return.

The expansion reveal is then marketed as is finally getting the big bad Azshara/Sargeras team up vs the Titans with Iridikron waiting in the wings to unleash his trap.

If Azshara was showing up in this expansion then you can bet Blizzard would have hyped it to high heaven, just like they did with her in BfA.

As someone prior to Gamescom who was very belligerent with Midnight featuring Azshara heavily due to how fitting it would have been, I would love to be wrong. But the only way I see her showing up now is possibly during the final raid of the expansion cinematic showing up in the context I outlined earlier in this post.

Ultimately though, I do not have much, if any, faith in Blizzard as competent storytellers so her showing up in a half assed way a patch in wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest at this point.

I’m going purely off of Maria’s words at this point.

At the same time, I’m of the belief that Azshara makes most sense (if not featured HEAVILY as a major part of the spotlight of Midnight) as the centrepiece villain of a Northern Kalimdor revamp expansion post World Soul Saga.

[huth]

People have to remember the context of that passage: It was foreshadowing the events of Dragonflight & the Worldsoul Saga...It's a declaration of intent, not a prophecy. The naga were trying to do what Neltharian was trying to do. But they failed. Irridikron & Xal'atath beat them to the heart. The naga don't have the heart & they definitely aren't wrestling it away from Xal. Maybe Azshara & the Naga were working for Xal'atath at this point, but I severely doubt it.

Are we reading the same text here? To me, it seems the Naga move isn't until after Xal'atath's next step, and quite explicitly so.

[Sondrelk]

I really don't feel that "not seeing Naga" is necessarily hard proof against Naga being bit villains in coastal areas. Especially if the developers and writers are considering more Naga presence later on in the expansion.

Even though the Naga were very much present in various zones in BfA, I wouldnt necessarily say they were prevalent enough to really warrant a mention when it comes to Zandalar for instance.

[Bozzoltank]

We'll know soon enough! The Alpha / Beta should be up within weeks, which will confirm or deny everything we've spoken about so far; at least for the first act of Midnight.

Hell, maybe they'll be sloppy and leave in a Naga-themed icon like The War Within's Goblin weapon and Ethereal trinket or Dragonflight's underground map and Emerald Dream glaive. Give us something to speculate about!

[Vakir]

Unfortunately way to much of it though. At least there's plenty of greatness coming from outside of it. This year has been pretty good so far.

Depressingly so. But the interest shifting into other original titles and smaller studios is a good thing. Big annual soulless franchises will still exist but their returns diminish. People talking about how games suck are usually grifters and culture warriors with an axe to grind. There's definitely plenty of stuff out there.

But at the end of the day, WoW is a colossal franchise. People need to set their expectations considering that. The mill is trying to make the content more efficiently now. It's harmless fun and isn't intelligence insulting on a FIFA level.

But there's absolutely other games and hobbies to enjoy, people. It's not a "DON'T LIKE, DON'T PLAY" reaction to criticism. It's literally a "no, I get your criticism, you need a break."

[Nymrohd]

Nothing much bears it out. Not just from a meta perspective, i.e this is obviously hype material existing to foreshadow future events, even that factually take place - i.e Iridikron does reclaim Galakrond's hunger and Xal takes the dark heart, but also in-story. The text is prophetic, it isn't a mission statement, the text foresees that Xal will do something (fulfill the final prophecy, complete the awakening, presumably of Azeroth) and then Azshara will take over. Xal'atath taking the heart is part of that prophecy.

I think that could mean that the person whos tabs Xal in the back at the very end of the expac is Azshara instead of Iridikron.

[Dracullus]

I think they will use dead news week to announce 2.5/Remix dates oficially. So I have low hopes for Alpha next week, but maybe we will see some early signs it's close.

[Ersula]

Are we reading the same text here? To me, it seems the Naga move isn't until after Xal'atath's next step, and quite explicitly so.

I guess, that's one interpretation....but its been a whole expansion since she got the heart & doesn't mention anything beyond that. If everything is going according to plan, why were they trying to get the heart they never even got close to obtaining?

I really don't feel that "not seeing Naga" is necessarily hard proof against Naga being bit villains in coastal areas. Especially if the developers and writers are considering more Naga presence later on in the expansion.

Even though the Naga were very much present in various zones in BfA, I wouldnt necessarily say they were prevalent enough to really warrant a mention when it comes to Zandalar for instance.

But that pretty much confirms a non-consequential appearance. The devs saying "No naga in 12.0" even though we saw naga camps in the screenshots, shows they're just going to be minor quest fodder again.

[huth]

I guess, that's one interpretation....but its been a whole expansion since she got the heart & doesn't mention anything beyond that. If everything is going according to plan, why were they trying to get the heart they never even got close to obtaining?

The Heart wasn't broken until the end of 11.0. And she still hasn't awakened anything. Azshara is only said to rise after the Awakening.

[Ersula]

The Heart wasn't broken until the end of 11.0. And she still hasn't awakened anything. Azshara is only said to rise after the Awakening.

Wishful thinking. The note is prefaced with "I hope the harbinger remembers how good of servants were were." Cope.

Plus, the Heart was initially broken when it was left in Aberrus, then it was fixed. Then it was briefly broken again. But it's now fixed again. It states it's supposed to be taken when its broken, which it no longer is.

If Azshara is the villain for the next saga, I'm all for it. But that seems like the most likely scenario.

[extasy]

I'll just say this, and then I'll drop the subject because I realise it's getting tiresome hearing about it.

• BlizzCon 2010 had 6 WoW-specific panels with a total runtime of 6 hours.
• BlizzCon 2011 had 14 WoW-specific panels with a total runtime of 16 hours (to be fair, a few of these were more like discussions).
• BlizzCon 2013 had 7 WoW-specific panels with a total runtime of 7 hours and 30 min.
• BlizzCon 2014 had 4 WoW-specific panels with a total runtime of 4 hours.
• BlizzCon 2015 had 4 WoW-specific panels with a total runtime of 4 hours and 30 min.
• BlizzCon 2016 had 4 WoW-specific panels with a total runtime of 4 hours.
• BlizzCon 2017 had 6 WoW-specific panels with a total runtime of 6 hours.
• BlizzCon 2018 had 7 WoW-specific panels with a total runtime of 8 hours.
• BlizzCon 2019 had 8 WoW-specific panels with a total runtime of 6 hours and 45 min.
• BlizzConline 2021 had 9 WoW-specific panels with a total runtime of 5 hours and 45 min(some of these were tiny, but still).
• BlizzCon 2023 had 3 WoW-specific panels with a total runtime of 2 hours and 15 min.

That's not even counting the opening cermonies, e-sports events, live raids, community events, general Blizzard panels, meet and greets, interviews and small clips shown in breaks and as B-roll on the live feed, or events for related games like Warcraft 3, Rumble, Heroes of the Storm and Hearthstone. Just pure WoW content panels. I did include Classic-specific panels though, as well as the Warcraft movie back when that was relevant.

Keep in mind some of those were on off-years for WoW, when other games like Overwatch, StarCraft 2 or Diablo 4 had the main spotlight.

So yeah, I just don't think people these days realise or remember how good we used to have it, and what a legend Mike Morhaime was for keeping that train going year after year for so long. The value was insane too because of how many games they had going all at once around the mid-2010s, and they did a really good job at making each game feel relevant to you as a Blizzard player.

Most fans I know used to basically rotate between WoW, HotS, SC2, D3, Hearthstone, and Overwatch.

In particular, I miss how well they'd create this connective tissue, as it were, between games and their communities. When you watched BlizzCon, you were usually there for all of it.

I also really miss how well they'd elevate developers for all kinds of sessions. I mean who ever hears about somebody casting actors for voice acting these days, or get to see the methods used when creating music, or designing a new zone? Humanise the company again, let the devs shine!

But then it all came crashing down around 2019-2020 with the conflux of the 2019 lay-offs, COVID, the sexual harrassment scandal and a lot of the senior staff jumping ship.

Now we're in a different era altogether, begging for scraps of information.

I admit that the annual roadmaps and the occasional WoWCast videos are great. More of that. But it still pales next to what we used to have.

Game is millions times better now so i couldnt care less about any of those panel lengths

[micwini]

That was said before housing was revealed, to be fair.

Housing is not a socks off level feature.

[Jaggler]

Housing is not a socks off level feature.

It's one of the most requested features in the history of the game.

[Cheezits]

The issue is that there is not a socks-off feature for those who don't like housing.

[Vakir]

There's no existing expansion where every single feature appealed to every single type of player. Even Legion had people complaining who didn't care about scaling difficulty dungeons and being pigeonholed into one weapon.

To a very significant number, housing is colossal.

[Ersula]

The issue is that there is not a socks-off feature for those who don't like housing.

This. And I had high expectations because until the trailer, they were portraying it as a feature unrelated to the midnight expansion.

It may be worth it attracting new players, we'll have to see. But the current WoW population; Housing is going to be something keeps 10% of the players engaged forever. The other 90% are going to play it for an hour once & then never again.

[Vakir]

This. And I had high expectations because until the trailer, they were portraying it as a feature unrelated to the midnight expansion.

In the teaser:

"Your next adventure begins at home."
Midnight logo

This and materializing stats based on nothing.