Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Nymrohd]

I always assumed that the Widow Arak'nai would step in to rule Azj-Kahet in place of Neferess or Ansurek, since the latter is now dead and the former is more or less incapable. She would probably be supported by the Vizier Nizrek in the process, and perhaps the former queen herself, assuming she continues to recover from the horrific transformation Xal'atath forced her to undergo.

The issue is, does the queen have a biological function or just a political one? The Mantid cannot exist without a queen, they would die out. Maybe the same is true of the Nerubian.

And honestly it would be a massive shame if TLT has no Nerubians and spending plenty of time with them in TLT and not having the two kingdoms interact just two expansions after when Azj'kahet is full of references to Azjol'Nerub would be wasteful. And I don't see the Kaheti going north to proselytize or conquer, they are in no condition to do so. So I am looking at possible reasons why they'd make the trip.

[Makorus]

I would be shocked if TLT doesn't have a Azj-Kahet/Azjol'Nerub crossover, even if it is just a .5/.7 story.

Then again, based on Midnight, it's hard to say how much Northrend we will actually get.

[Pyrophax]

I always assumed that the Widow Arak'nai would step in to rule Azj-Kahet in place of Neferess or Ansurek, since the latter is now dead and the former is more or less incapable. She would probably be supported by the Vizier Nizrek in the process, and perhaps the former queen herself, assuming she continues to recover from the horrific transformation Xal'atath forced her to undergo.

I think its other way around. Vizier Nizrek will be king, with Arak'nai his "vizier" or Cardinal.

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The issue is, does the queen have a biological function or just a political one? The Mantid cannot exist without a queen, they would die out. Maybe the same is true of the Nerubian.

And honestly it would be a massive shame if TLT has no Nerubians and spending plenty of time with them in TLT and not having the two kingdoms interact just two expansions after when Azj'kahet is full of references to Azjol'Nerub would be wasteful. And I don't see the Kaheti going north to proselytize or conquer, they are in no condition to do so. So I am looking at possible reasons why they'd make the trip.

Anub'Arak was the king, so its political to me.
Mantids are more like ants, rather then spiders as Nerubs are.

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The issue is, does the queen have a biological function or just a political one? The Mantid cannot exist without a queen, they would die out. Maybe the same is true of the Nerubian.

And honestly it would be a massive shame if TLT has no Nerubians and spending plenty of time with them in TLT and not having the two kingdoms interact just two expansions after when Azj'kahet is full of references to Azjol'Nerub would be wasteful. And I don't see the Kaheti going north to proselytize or conquer, they are in no condition to do so. So I am looking at possible reasons why they'd make the trip.

If Harandar was delayed to Midnight and their questline shifted into another expansion - finish of Neruby questchain could be in TLT.
Maybe we will get proper finish to both Nerubian kingdoms? Like Forsaken will help with Neferess condition, maybe Anub'Arak will be raised once again to serve as General once again. 2 undead spiders that stay as long as new king (who am I kidding, new Queen) needs their help.
Maybe they will find royal heir in An'kahet and unite both kingdoms?

[Aucald]

The issue is, does the queen have a biological function or just a political one? The Mantid cannot exist without a queen, they would die out. Maybe the same is true of the Nerubian.

And honestly it would be a massive shame if TLT has no Nerubians and spending plenty of time with them in TLT and not having the two kingdoms interact just two expansions after when Azj'kahet is full of references to Azjol'Nerub would be wasteful. And I don't see the Kaheti going north to proselytize or conquer, they are in no condition to do so. So I am looking at possible reasons why they'd make the trip.

No idea on that score, but I don't think the Nerubians require a queen, as it appears that the Nerubians in Azjol-Nerub don't have a queen but persist in the modern era. Perhaps, like with some real-world insects, the role of queen can be passed on outside of the bloodline through a special form of cultivation or biological process, much like how feeding drone bee larvae royal jelly will turn it into a queen as opposed to another drone. It's also possible, albeit just speculation, that the Widow Arak'nai is actually part of Neferess' bloodline - the two seemed to enjoy a bond that goes beyond the bond of a functionary serving their ruler, so it wouldn't surprise me at all if we were to discover that Arak'nai is perhaps a daughter born outside the line of royal succession, a half-sister to Ansurek, or maybe even a younger sister that wasn't acknowledged to cement Ansurek's future claim.

As for why the Kaheti Nerubians would journey to Northrend for TLT, well, I can think of a lot of reasons. Perhaps with the loss of Neferess and Ansurek, the Kaheti seek to reconsolidate their people. Perhaps Seer Ixit, the current nominal ruler of Azjol-Nerub, sends another emissary to the Kaheti, revealing the outcome of the War of the Spider in-depth, and offering a plan for both groups to prosper in light of their twin plights. It's also noteworthy that after the defeat of Herald Volazj in Ahn'kahet, Ixit and his fellow Nerubian sorcerers immediately go to work doing something to a large cocoon suspended above the fallen temple where Volazj had set himself up - this could conceivably be a new queen or king, and thus, without its own royalty, Azj-Kahet would fall under the dominion of this new monarch of the Nerubians.



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I think its other way around. Vizier Nizrek will be king, with Arak'nai his "vizier" or Cardinal.

Also possible, as Arak'nai herself showed no real inclination or desire to rule, and still sees Neferess as the rightful queen despite her conversion into an Ascended Hulk.

Anub'Arak was the king, so its political to me.
Mantids are more like ants, rather then spiders as Nerubs are.

The Nerubians of Azjol-Nerub did have a queen, though. Queen Nezar'Azret ruled Azjol-Nerub during the War of the Spider alongside King Anub'arak, and continued to do so after Anub'arak had been turned into a Crypt Lord by the Scourge. She was killed in WC3: TFT by Arthas and Anub'arak on their way to Icecrown, when they passed through the Azjol-Nerub.

[huth]

Also possible, as Arak'nai herself showed no real inclination or desire to rule, and still sees Neferess as the rightful queen despite her conversion into an Ascended Hulk.

She's more of a behind-the-scenes kind of person, so she would probably feel rather uncomfortable being in the center of attention as well.

I don't think Nerubians actually need any royalty though. They're just used to that kind of leadership. And they could probably create a new queen type transformation if needed, or maybe even fix the Hulk conversion now that they can do so openly.

[Makorus]

I mean, the max renown questlines of the Azj'kahet factions really do paint Vizier as the leader, until they find a way to reverse Neferess' ascendance. She is definitely not in a position to lead. They do make a point that both the upper class and lower class love Nizrek and Arak'nai seems a more spy-ish type, plus, she is caring for Neferess.

[Avikur]

Hopefully they at least give us class blogs this week.

I’d hope so, although since Gamescon it’s been very quiet, a blog recapping what we already knew and that’s about it.

My guess is some new information (hopefully class blogs) this week, then alpha next week.

[Super Dickmann]

I mean, the max renown questlines of the Azj'kahet factions really do paint Vizier as the leader, until they find a way to reverse Neferess' ascendance. She is definitely not in a position to lead. They do make a point that both the upper class and lower class love Nizrek and Arak'nai seems a more spy-ish type, plus, she is caring for Neferess.

Neferess working her way back into the role and then leading efforts to make it up to Azjol'nerub for leaving Anub'arak's requests unmetin TLT would be a good direction. This serves to follow up on the ascension-possession plotline being cut off to tying in with where we left that beat with Lilian, a character defined by how undead actually transformed her into a better, more capable person in the long run giving Neferess a pep talk. It also skips two of the main banes of modern WoW, plucky support girls taking over while the main and more developed monarch dies and ineffectual councils taking over every organisation.

[Bozzoltank]

I’d hope so, although since Gamescon it’s been very quiet, a blog recapping what we already knew and that’s about it.

My guess is some new information (hopefully class blogs) this week, then alpha next week.

I do wonder what sort of major class changes we can expect. Personally hoping they'll work Nether Portal back into Demonology (demo main, woop woop). Maybe make all spells casteable while moving? Also hoping Rogues receive some love, alongside Aff Warlocks. Maybe give Warriors a shout-like BL to make up for the lack of DPS tools at their disposal in M+?

[Makorus]

I do wonder what sort of major class changes we can expect. Personally hoping they'll work Nether Portal back into Demonology (demo main, woop woop). Maybe make all spells casteable while moving? Also hoping Rogues receive some love, alongside Aff Warlocks. Maybe give Warriors a shout-like BL to make up for the lack of DPS tools at their disposal in M+?

I mean, I doubt we will get big things like making spells casteable while moving (especially because every caster bar Shadow Priest has ways to deal with that problem), but we will definitely see a Rogue redesign. It just reeks of "We'd rather you didn't play Demonology". Honestly, Rogues suffered the most from the weird "unpruning" that they did in Shadowlands that I still don't understand.

[Nymrohd]

As a queen, Nezar'Azret was both leader and mother to her subjects. It is rumored that nerubian queens can genetically pass knowledge from mother to daughter.

This does suggest Nerubians are all born to the queen. And the latter part was used in the Kaheti lore, with queens passing information between generations, interrupted at least by Zaltra(/The Mad Nerubian)

So yeah, if Nezar'Azret had a heir, perhaps she would be needed to succeed Neferess in a combined kingdom.

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I mean, I doubt we will get big things like making spells casteable while moving (especially because every caster bar Shadow Priest has ways to deal with that problem), but we will definitely see a Rogue redesign. It just reeks of "We'd rather you didn't play Demonology". Honestly, Rogues suffered the most from the weird "unpruning" that they did in Shadowlands that I still don't understand.

Priest absolutely needs a way to deal with forced movement.

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Neferess working her way back into the role and then leading efforts to make it up to Azjol'nerub for leaving Anub'arak's requests unmetin TLT would be a good direction. This serves to follow up on the ascension-possession plotline being cut off to tying in with where we left that beat with Lilian, a character defined by how undead actually transformed her into a better, more capable person in the long run giving Neferess a pep talk. It also skips two of the main banes of modern WoW, plucky support girls taking over while the main and more developed monarch dies and ineffectual councils taking over every organisation.

The question is, can Neferess produce new nerubians any longer?

[Makorus]

This does suggest Nerubians are all born to the queen. And the latter part was used in the Kaheti lore, with queens passing information between generations, interrupted at least by Zaltra(/The Mad Nerubian)

So yeah, if Nezar'Azret had a heir, perhaps she would be needed to succeed Neferess in a combined kingdom.

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Priest absolutely needs a way to deal with forced movement.

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The question is, can Neferess produce new nerubians any longer?

Priest gets fucked over with a lot of things that are common place for other casters/healers and I just don't understand why.

[Bozzoltank]

I mean, I doubt we will get big things like making spells casteable while moving (especially because every caster bar Shadow Priest has ways to deal with that problem), but we will definitely see a Rogue redesign. It just reeks of "We'd rather you didn't play Demonology". Honestly, Rogues suffered the most from the weird "unpruning" that they did in Shadowlands that I still don't understand.

I still absolutely dig Demonology, and as weird as some of the class changes are, it still absolutely slaps in Mythic+. It's somewhat disheartening to see all those Destruction players in the top 100 kills for Manaforge Omega but, as a wise man once said, it is what it is. Warlock, in general, feels a bit meh at times. Destruction is awfully slow, Affliction has Malefic Rupture (need I say more), and Demo is a cookie cutter "big CD" spec with very little variety, apart from the optional Diabolist playstyle.

Rogues absolutely deserve a thorough rework.

Also, Blizzard needs to give Survival Hunters DF's Bombardier back... and Snake Trap. I need Snake Trap in my life again.

[Super Dickmann]

The question is, can Neferess produce new nerubians any longer?

My assumption is that the ascended are sterile but I don't get the impression that the Kaheti need queens to reproduce the way the mantid do. As @Aucald posted up top, Azjol'nerub doesn't and the aqir don't have them and reproduce just fine. The Queen seems to be more of a specific sub-type gene-engineered to rule and carry hereditary memory rather than necessary to continue the species.

Checking again, yeah, traditionally the wife eats the husband after marriage and we know that they just breed regularly since Arax'ne got this passed on by her mother.

Ever since she was a spiderling, her mother had been weaving stories about the beauty of consuming the object of one's love. About how that way, they are guaranteed to be together until the end of time.

Her mother ate her first husband, and her grandmother before that.

[Nymrohd]

My assumption is that the ascended are sterile but I don't get the impression that the Kaheti need queens to reproduce the way the mantid do. As @Aucald posted up top, Azjol'nerub doesn't and the aqir don't have them and reproduce just fine. The Queen seems to be more of a specific sub-type gene-engineered to rule and carry hereditary memory rather than necessary to continue the species.

Checking again, yeah, traditionally the wife eats the husband after marriage and we know that they just breed regularly since Arax'ne got this passed on by her mother.

Then why is Nezar'Azret listed as both ruler and mother? Perhaps just a lore inconsistency

[milkmustache]

I mean, I doubt we will get big things like making spells casteable while moving (especially because every caster bar Shadow Priest has ways to deal with that problem), but we will definitely see a Rogue redesign. It just reeks of "We'd rather you didn't play Demonology". Honestly, Rogues suffered the most from the weird "unpruning" that they did in Shadowlands that I still don't understand.

Aside from gameplay, Rogue has felt absent of a class identity for a while now, Outlaw especially. I've said it before, but Fatebound completely misses the mark in understanding the fantasy behind a rogue. Why on earth would an Outlaw Rogue depend on the flip of a coin? They're a trick, a cheat-- the coin would always be heads.

[Super Dickmann]

Then why is Nezar'Azret listed as both ruler and mother? Perhaps just a lore inconsistency

I'm inclined to be charitable as TWW's worldbuilding on these tends to be fairly sensible, and chalk it up to it just being figurative, like being called the father of the nation or how Merkel was called 'Mutti'. We didn't literally spawn from Merkel's folds.

If you want to be even more charitable than this and considering nerubian forms are the products of scientific and magical experimentation, whether the queen also handles the bulk of reproduction or not could vary based on the form and the time period.

[Sondrelk]

I'm inclined to be charitable as TWW's worldbuilding on these tends to be fairly sensible, and chalk it up to it just being figurative, like being called the father of the nation or how Merkel was called 'Mutti'. We didn't literally spawn from Merkel's folds.

If you want to be even more charitable than this and considering nerubian forms are the products of scientific and magical experimentation, whether the queen also handles the bulk of reproduction or not could vary based on the form and the time period.

I could imagine an explanation where the queen only handles some of the reproduction, and the lower ranked drones are handled by more generic methods.

Another possibility is that the queen is only responsible for supplying some material necessary for Evolution.

[Super Dickmann]

I could imagine an explanation where the queen only handles some of the reproduction, and the lower ranked drones are handled by more generic methods.

Another possibility is that the queen is only responsible for supplying some material necessary for Evolution.

Either would work honestly. We know that the nerubians aren't caste-based, but conversions are based on expedience (e.g. the spiderlords were made during war) and the City of Threads endboss can swap between forms via the splicing she does. Reproduction could be handled primarily by one form (the reggo nerubians) and the body then adjusted to take on whatever function is needed.

[Ersula]

I could imagine an explanation where the queen only handles some of the reproduction, and the lower ranked drones are handled by more generic methods.

Another possibility is that the queen is only responsible for supplying some material necessary for Evolution.

This reminds me of the Dragonflight problem where they never actually explain how their "aspectral" powers work and how that relates to their reproduction....despite that being the main focus of the entire expansion.

But taking the stuff with Tyr into consideration, I can surmise that the various dragonkin produce eggs normally, but the Aspect needs to use its special titan-given power to transform the egg into a full-fledged dragon. Otherwise they're born as drakonoids or dragonkin, or in the case of ancient times, proto-dragons.

Nerubians might be a similar situation. This would also explain away the whole incest thing in the black dragonflight. Effectively the leader of the flight is only a parent to all dragons in a magical third-party sense.