Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Hitei]

Timewalking shouldn't have a restriction at all. It always bothered me that i can level from the beginning in legion and do the dungeons, but i have to level to 60 to queue the same dungeons as timewalking.
Thats at least a start to make it feel better while leveling. Especially since they really focus on the leveling aspect of timewalking with the five week exp bonus.

I assume the restriction is to avoid completely trivializing the content, since a level 10 or 11 can just 2 shot all mob packs solo and kill bosses in a few GCDs. The weekly (and instances) reward decent gear and a good bit of transmog, and mounts, so they don't want people to be able to just AFK into completing dungeons in a couple minutes because of scaling.

[Santandame]

As for why she didn't do anything in regards to the Nightmare? Idk, she was prolly busy or some shit. Could also just be poor writing, or could even be a case of her trusting the mortals and whatnot to handle it.

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"New dungeon Emerald Dreamway?"

What???

That is a poor excuse. She was too busy? Lmao. She was trusting the mortals to handle it? If there is a malevolent force in her realm meddling with corruption that she could easily take care of her, then she would.

Face it, everything @Hitei said was spot on and the Dream is more than likely not Elune’s domain. No need for poor justifications to fit it into your head canon.

[Xilurm]

Why would the Dream be Elune's domain anyway? It was created by the Titans.

[Santandame]

Why would the Dream be Elune's domain anyway? It was created by the Titans.

There’s very little to indicate it. It’s just @Cosmicpreds headcanon.

[Santandame]

Am I misremembering things, or didn't the Titans (primarily the Keeper Freya) merely shape the Dream? IIRC, there was already something primordial there.

It has never been confirmed. In the lore it is ambiguous. Some believe it to have always been there with Freya ordering it. With others believing that Freya created it. However, it being already present as opposed to crested by Freya is heavily implied that it was created by Azeroth itself. Either way, very little to zero indication that it was created by Elune or is completely Lifelands related. All lore indicates that the Dream is Titan in nature.

Either way, it is something that will likely be explored in the future.

[huth]

Am I misremembering things, or didn't the Titans (primarily the Keeper Freya) merely shape the Dream? IIRC, there was already something primordial there.

The Titans definitely did something with it, though the exact extent of their influence is currently unknown.

There's been some guesses that it's part of the Gardens of Life, but nothing solid. And even then it might not be part of Elune's specific domain, just like Maldraxxus isn't part of the Winter Queen's.

[Cheezits]

Why would the Dream be Elune's domain anyway? It was created by the Titans.

It isn't. However there is likely a connection between the Dream and the Lifeands that they will want to explore, to elaborate on Elune's connection to the Green Dragonflight and the Night Elves next patch.

It would also allow them to flesh the zone(s) out beyond just a copy of Old Azeroth if a portion of the dream is bleeding into the Lifelands. I feel like this is the implication of what the Fae Dragons represent.

[username993720]

Why would the Dream be Elune's domain anyway? It was created by the Titans.

She is part of the pantheon of life.
The titans could have lied like they sometimes do. They confuse ordered with created.

[Zaganite]

It isn't. However there is likely a connection between the Dream and the Lifeands that they will want to explore, to elaborate on Elune's connection to the Green Dragonflight and the Night Elves next patch.

Something I may have missed but who gifted the greens with Aspect power again? Because I thought it was Freya using some of Eonars power but the Winter Queen called Ysera her "sisters pet" which then turned out to be Elune. This is part I am hoping is clarified the most really is where does Elune fit into everything since she isnt in the Order Pantheon but still has connections with an Aspect.

[Cheezits]

Something I may have missed but who gifted the greens with Aspect power again? Because I thought it was Freya using some of Eonars power but the Winter Queen called Ysera her "sisters pet" which then turned out to be Elune. This is part I am hoping is clarified the most really is where does Elune fit into everything since she isnt in the Order Pantheon but still has connections with an Aspect.

I think the explanation will be that Freya gifted Elune her Dream powers, but the Dream itself is created from/an extension of the Lifelands that Freya and Elune cooperated on. So Ysera's powers are Titan-gifted, but they are an extension of Elune's powers, hence why Ysera is both a pet of the Titans (to the Primalists) and a pet of Elune (to the Winter Queen). In the most recent version of the lore it doesn't make much sense for Freya to have created the Dream from scratch, but to instead have wrangled something existing into something new (as Titans do).

It would certainly explain why Azeroth has so damn many wild gods if they organized some kind of highway between the Azeroth and the Lifelands/Ardenweald.

[Santandame]

She is part of the pantheon of life.
The titans could have lied like they sometimes do. They confuse ordered with created.

Why is that relevant? By that logic is the Emerald Dream related to the Everbloom because both are Life magic related?

The Emerald Dream is Titan related.

[Ersula]

She is part of the pantheon of life.
The titans could have lied like they sometimes do. They confuse ordered with created.

No, they ordered the universe: Separating the 6 cosmic forces into easily identifiable domains, but they very directly, and recently (compared to the age of the universe) created the Emerald Dream: It's a backup template of the world before they started messing with it, like a save scum. Same thing where they created elemental pocket dimensions for the Elemental lords: Entirely so they'd leave the Titans alone in their work.

Surely there is some sort of place the Pantheon of Life rules over, but what people are mistaken when they refer to the "lifelands" as a place where life originates. They already established all organisms originate from Zereth Mortis. And those organisms were used to seed life on all planets: This is established in those notes no one read in the Zereth Mortis zone. If all life comes from the Machine of Death creating life clearly isn't Elune's job; she seems more occupied with *protecting* life.

[huth]

No, they ordered the universe: Separating the 6 cosmic forces into easily identifiable domains, but they very directly, and recently (compared to the age of the universe) created the Emerald Dream: It's a backup template of the world before they started messing with it, like a save scum. Same thing where they created elemental pocket dimensions for the Elemental lords: Entirely so they'd leave the Titans alone in their work.

Surely there is some sort of place the Pantheon of Life rules over, but what people are mistaken when they refer to the "lifelands" as a place where life originates. They already established all organisms originate from Zereth Mortis. And those organisms were used to seed life on all planets: This is established in those notes no one read in the Zereth Mortis zone. If all life comes from the Machine of Death creating life clearly isn't Elune's job; she seems more occupied with *protecting* life.

You're mixing up Titans and First Ones there. Also, it isn't clear if the Titans created the Dream or merely modified a pre-existing plane.

[Ersula]

You're mixing up Titans and First Ones there. Also, it isn't clear if the Titans created the Dream or merely modified a pre-existing plane.

I was making two different points. The Dream isn't the Lifelands in either respect: The Titans created the dream: Freya tells you that. Other planets don't have one. Though they could be lying, it seems like its literally an alternate timeline the Titans are keeping a tab open on. Yeah that "Titans aren't being objective" casts aspersions on everything we know but you can't just say "This is in direct contradiction to what they told us so its unclear"

[Cheezits]

So I thought I was going crazy, but it does look like the Wavewhisker mount description WAS changed. It once referenced the Ankoan, but now it doesn't.

https://www.warcraftmounts.com/mount...avewhisker.php

https://www.wowhead.com/news/new-won...-bundle-333923

"Once hunted nearly to extinction, wavewhiskers were carefully cultivated by the ankoan, who revere them to this day."

Interesting...

[Aeluron Lightsong]

So I thought I was going crazy, but it does look like the Wavewhisker mount description WAS changed. It once referenced the Ankoan, but now it doesn't.

https://www.warcraftmounts.com/mount...avewhisker.php

https://www.wowhead.com/news/new-won...-bundle-333923

"Once hunted nearly to extinction, wavewhiskers were carefully cultivated by the ankoan, who revere them to this day."

Interesting...

Could be just an error. I don't want to think too much about it.

[username993720]

Why is that relevant? By that logic is the Emerald Dream related to the Everbloom because both are Life magic related?

The Emerald Dream is Titan related.

Come on... why would the titans have dominion over an obviously life realm. It is obviously old lore. That's like expecting the Shadowlands to have been created by the Titans. They can't have power over everything - Arcane, Life, Light (Tyr, Seekers).

No, they ordered the universe: Separating the 6 cosmic forces into easily identifiable domains

What? Where does it say that?

but they very directly, and recently (compared to the age of the universe) created the Emerald Dream: It's a backup template of the world before they started messing with it, like a save scum. Same thing where they created elemental pocket dimensions for the Elemental lords: Entirely so they'd leave the Titans alone in their work.

That is very likely old lore.

"Freya, one of the nine titan-forged Keepers, created the Emerald Dream during the Ordering of Azeroth to serve as the underlying blueprint for the planet. Some believe that she wove the Emerald Dream into being from nothing, others claim that this strange place had always existed in some form, a dream born from Azeroth's slumbering world-soul, which Freya tapped into and molded what would become known as the Dream as a way to commune with the nascent titan."

Not even a Titan. A Titan Keeper. Capable of that feat?
The second option seems more plausible.

Surely there is some sort of place the Pantheon of Life rules over, but what people are mistaken when they refer to the "lifelands" as a place where life originates. They already established all organisms originate from Zereth Mortis. And those organisms were used to seed life on all planets: This is established in those notes no one read in the Zereth Mortis zone. If all life comes from the Machine of Death creating life clearly isn't Elune's job; she seems more occupied with *protecting* life.

What? Zereth Mortis creates Afterlives.

[huth]

I was making two different points. The Dream isn't the Lifelands in either respect: The Titans created the dream: Freya tells you that. Other planets don't have one. Though they could be lying, it seems like its literally an alternate timeline the Titans are keeping a tab open on. Yeah that "Titans aren't being objective" casts aspersions on everything we know but you can't just say "This is in direct contradiction to what they told us so its unclear"

The domains was the First Ones, not the Titans. The latter are part of the domain of Order. We do not have definite confirmation on what exactly the Dream is.

[Cheezits]

If Chronicle, when Blizz was still figuring out what the Titans did and didn't do, says that there's a POSSIBILITY the Dream isn't exclusively titan-born, then you know it's not going to be post-Shadowlands.

Freya probably wrangled the Dream into being ordered, maybe with Elune's help, but I doubt she crapped out a whole copy of Azeroth on her own. Don't forget that Eonar was in refuge on a planet called ELUNaria. They probably are friends.

The second that a death goddess called Ysera Elune's pet instead of Eonar or Freya's, which many people suspected, the Dream stopped being just a Titan thing.

[Cheezits]

The "copy of Azeroth" stuff was likely done with the aid of G'hanir ngl, and I imagine Elune gave the Titans access to her realm, namely due to her seeming connections with them and whatnot.

Regarding G'hanir... I checked the wow wikipedia, and apparently it's grown back. Considering the zone probably isn't Amirdrassil, maybe G'hanir will be the zone instead? Or it will make an appearance? I think it checks out with how the Ohnaran Plains are so connected to a bird god (leading to Aviana).

I think "Gahanir" mobs appear in the Ulderoth invasions as well.