Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[COBRAstriker]

I feel like Blizzard keeps banking on the haronir and Turalyon's family and Anduin a lot, and didnt expect us to like amani, Lor'Themar and other stuff so much.

Also, watching the Nobbel videos, aparently you do the haronir quests acompanied by an overworld character, who is... a belf. Why not bring a zandalari character, for a change? Aren't these new furries back from the times of the empire of Zul? Then why not bring Talanji, for example? I know the troll agenda is too strong on me, but is it too much to ask? That belf guy won't be seen in the future. Was the other option yet ANOTHER nelf?

Talanji? Hell no. We're talking about a zone full of vines and roots. Bring out Rokhan. Who else could be better in such an environment other than the Horde's best scout

[Garrac]

Talanji? Hell no. We're talking about a zone full of vines and roots. Bring out Rokhan. Who else could be better in such an environment other than the Horde's best scout

Honestly at this point Im desperate enough to want even poor Zen'Tabra to at least come by and say hi

[allegrian]

Talanji? Hell no. We're talking about a zone full of vines and roots. Bring out Rokhan. Who else could be better in such an environment other than the Horde's best scout

I mean, any night elf druid would be. It's about the freakin world trees and the NE ancestors.

[Garrac]

I mean, any night elf druid would be. It's about the freakin world trees and the NE ancestors.

Counter-point: Im bored of NE, no more NE for 10 yearss, we had NE content too much, let them suffer the troll treatment for a while

[Raetary]

That belf guy won't be seen in the future.

The Belf guy is Halduron, Ranger General of Silvermoon...
We will see him plenty, alongside the rest of the Regency.

And idk why you expect a Zandalari to show up here.
The Plotline is one about dealing with a direct threat to Quel'thalas, one stemming from the energies of the Sunwell.

Why would the Regency just let a random Zandalari character waltz in, rather than sending in one of their own?

And why would Talanji and co. give a shit?

Aren't these new furries back from the times of the empire of Zul?

Yes, so?
They have no ties whatsoever to the empire.

They are a divergent evolution of a proto-elf ancestor that initially evolved by magic means from an isolated Troll Tribe.

[allegrian]

Counter-point: Im bored of NE, no more NE for 10 yearss, we had NE content too much, let them suffer the troll treatment for a while

The NE content was about them getting beaten constantly and not getting final revenge nor recovering their lost land. While the good NE content became a horde allied race.

We need good NE content and this zone and lore scream NE lore, it even has burning teldrassil roots lol

[Super Dickmann]

The NE content was about them getting beaten constantly and not getting final revenge nor recovering their lost land. While the good NE content became a horde allied race.

We need good NE content and this zone and lore scream NE lore, it even has burning teldrassil roots lol

Yes, terrible isn't it? Consider that even in a scenario where we're finally rid of them for an expansion they still manage to appear and we still get to listen to whining about their goddamn tree. Meanwhile the greatest orc contribution lately has been Thrall helping some dwarves, the Forsaken will have more appearance as dungeon baddies than they had in the whole of TWW, and the goblin patch is all about one goblin faction leader killing the previous one after a revolution springs over the death of the only Alliance goblin.

[allegrian]

Yes, terrible isn't it? Consider that even in a scenario where we're finally rid of them for an expansion they still manage to appear and we still get to listen to whining about their goddamn tree. Meanwhile the greatest orc contribution lately has been Thrall helping some dwarves, the Forsaken will have more appearance as dungeon baddies than they had in the whole of TWW, and the goblin patch is all about one goblin faction leader killing the previous one after a revolution springs over the death of the only Alliance goblin.

Not being happy with undermine is silly and shows you're not really a fan of goblins. And orcs will have presence forever as the default horde rep and thrall being everywhere.

[Super Dickmann]

Not being happy with undermine is silly and shows you're not really a fan of goblins. And orcs will have presence forever as the default horde rep and thrall being everywhere.

I mean guilty as charged, I don't really care about goblins and I find their turn to trade unionism and friendship absolutely terrible, though Undermine at least had atmosphere and music going for it as compared to that Chick Tract of a short story about Noggenfogger we were inflicted with before TWW. As regards presence, Thrall appears only physically, he has no real arc of his own and hasn't for a decade and a half. The time to do it would have been Dragonflight, an expansion about shamans and partly about the Earth Warden, as well as about dragonriders, of which orcs were the originals. Instead, the only orc appearance is one sidequest while the second elemental expansion is yet again about night elves and druids.

[Xilurm]

Yes, terrible isn't it? Consider that even in a scenario where we're finally rid of them for an expansion they still manage to appear and we still get to listen to whining about their goddamn tree. Meanwhile the greatest orc contribution lately has been Thrall helping some dwarves, the Forsaken will have more appearance as dungeon baddies than they had in the whole of TWW, and the goblin patch is all about one goblin faction leader killing the previous one after a revolution springs over the death of the only Alliance goblin.

Trust me most Night Elf fans would prefer that instead of getting shit smeared in our faces for the hundredth time in a row. I'd much prefer a single quest where a druid is tending to some plants or a priestess is praying to Elune than the devs trying to send more Night Elves to the circus.

[Garrac]

The Belf guy is Halduron, Ranger General of Silvermoon...
We will see him plenty, alongside the rest of the Regency.

What do belves even have to do with haranir at all? There's no link between both plots, we saw thanks to Orweyna that any haranir can create a portal to Harandar from any place.

And idk why you expect a Zandalari to show up here.
The Plotline is one about dealing with a direct threat to Quel'thalas, one stemming from the energies of the Sunwell.

Sorry for expecting zandalari in a expansion where zandalari have been explicitly mentioned in the publicity, next time I'll expect nelfs

Why would the Regency just let a random Zandalari character waltz in, rather than sending in one of their own?

And why would Talanji and co. give a shit?

Because... they are members of the Horde as well? And Blizzard explicitly talked about their involvement? And zandalari care about all troll knowledge and loa, be it from any tribe?

Yes, so?
They have no ties whatsoever to the empire.

They are a divergent evolution of a proto-elf ancestor that initially evolved by magic means from an isolated Troll Tribe.

No troll tribe is isolated. Dark trolls ended up in the Well of Eternity following the araqi by order of the Zandalari Empire. All tribes are connected thanks to Dazar'Alor.

[Super Dickmann]

Trust me most Night Elf fans would prefer that instead of getting shit smeared in our faces for the hundredth time in a row. I'd much prefer a single quest where a druid is tending to some plants or a priestess is praying to Elune than the devs trying to send more Night Elves to the circus.

Yes, I know every night elf appearance is a net negative where Night Elf fans are dissatisfied with their depiction and everyone who isn't a Night Elf fan gets dick all because they eat up all the attention, which is why the Zero Night Elf Plan is necessary:

1) No matter what additional tree or zone is given to the Night Elves, it'll never fill the Teldrassil-sized gap
2) No amount of non-faction conflict story, regardless of its scope or quality or time spent will be able to appease the Night Elf fanbase's grievances with the story
3) Blizzard haven't done faction conflict for four years and while they'll eventually return to the well, it won't be for at least the next six years
4) Stories in the franchise are meant to appease at least one part of its fanbase
5) Screentime is zero sum, for one party to have it, another has to not have it

Taking into account all of the above, there has been no point in telling any night elf story in the past four years and as a corollary, there's no reason to tell any in the subsequent six.

[Nymrohd]

I have a question. I see people here often want to see Elisande back as an ally. Replaying Suramar one thing is clear, she set up a fascist state, tortured dissidents, summarily executed people for minor insubordination, sold her people to slavery or soul destruction. It wasn't Gul'dan doing everything, it was Elisande. She didn't do this to save the Nightborne, she did it to save herself and her court, everyone else was expendable. And much of that state existed before Gul'dan. People would be exiled to a fate worse than death even though by all accounts Elisande should have been able to see outside Suramar and figure out the world had stabilized long ago and monsters were allowed among the nobility unopposed.

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I mean guilty as charged, I don't really care about goblins and I find their turn to trade unionism and friendship absolutely terrible, though Undermine at least had atmosphere and music going for it as compared to that Chick Tract of a short story about Noggenfogger we were inflicted with before TWW.

I know we want the game to retain some edge but the reality is, maintaining a Gallywix style leadership would have seen full societal collapse in less than two generations.

[Garrac]

The NE content was about them getting beaten constantly and not getting final revenge nor recovering their lost land. While the good NE content became a horde allied race.

We need good NE content and this zone and lore scream NE lore, it even has burning teldrassil roots lol

I mean, fair enough, and good point on the haronir link, Im just tired after all the road from Legion to Dragonflight having nelfs and nelf plots on the main focus, by Amirdrassil I was annoyed at Sylvanas not because burning the tree was a stupid war crime, but because it made nelfs and the cause of protecting nature anoying.

[Super Dickmann]

I know we want the game to retain some edge but the reality is, maintaining a Gallywix style leadership would have seen full societal collapse in less than two generations.

There's nothing to maintain, because goblins are a mess of competing cartels and no one would set for long. The goblin starting zone is all about you, someone who I remind had as his first quest driving out of your mansion to beat your crop of troll slaves into line, gunning for Gallywix's job. There's no real moral difference between the PC and Gallywix, the PC is just better positioned in Kezan while Gallywix is better positioned after. Before he became a trade unionist Gazlowe himself was also not at all different, what with his first appearance consisting of sending suicide bombers to blow up mines for cash and sending Rexxar to kill interfering kobolds. The whole thing is meant to be both extreme and tongue-in-cheek.

In this respect, Gallywix worked as a rep because he was the goblin position taken to its natural conclusion and also because he had some funny short stories, and one of his portrayals, the one in the Blank Scroll easily put him head and shoulders above every goblin character before or since. That Mists had a character who switched sides purely out of pragmatism and profit made that rebellion work out. That the day was won not by friendship and hugs but partly by nodding along to people like Sylvanas and Gallywix, and that sides were swapped by people like Bob not out of association with orcish honor culture but by pure calculus about his racial interest made that story work.

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I have a question. I see people here often want to see Elisande back as an ally. Replaying Suramar one thing is clear, she set up a fascist state, tortured dissidents, summarily executed people for minor insubordination, sold her people to slavery or soul destruction. It wasn't Gul'dan doing everything, it was Elisande. She didn't do this to save the Nightborne, she did it to save herself and her court, everyone else was expendable. And much of that state existed before Gul'dan. People would be exiled to a fate worse than death even though by all accounts Elisande should have been able to see outside Suramar and figure out the world had stabilized long ago and monsters were allowed among the nobility unopposed.

She had a great voice actor and a great gimmick (time magic). Her allegiance was just forced enough to give her some depth, ditto her helping the PCs without hard feelings once her visions were disproven. That and her speech dissecting the various kinds of elves was very good. Does any of that quality her as coming back as a heroic ally? No, not really. Suramar is a complete story and she should stay dead. Her only crime is not being the end boss of her own palace.

Now if you want characters who should've stayed allies, played around with future sight and were part of a race that later became Horde playable, Prophet Zul is right there. The quests with him were amazing and him turning into a maggot cultist who's plan didn't make any sense since the dungeon story was disconnected from the main one was criminal.

[DenPhoenix]

Also, watching the Nobbel videos, aparently you do the haronir quests acompanied by an overworld character, who is... a belf. Why not bring a zandalari character, for a change? Aren't these new furries back from the times of the empire of Zul? Then why not bring Talanji, for example? I know the troll agenda is too strong on me, but is it too much to ask? That belf guy won't be seen in the future. Was the other option yet ANOTHER nelf?

According to the story, Eversong is suffering from LightBlooming, like Harandar, so Halduron sets out with Orweyna to investigate it.

BUT COME ON… why do we even need trolls there, lol?? Maybe their druids, yes. Or maybe some history researchers/archaeologists. But, God, we’re literally heading to the convergence of all World Trees, and there are no Night Elves in this story... Or someone from the Cenarion Circle...

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Sorry for expecting zandalari in a expansion where zandalari have been explicitly mentioned in the publicity, next time I'll expect nelfs

If you’re referring to the mention of the Zandalari in the first press kit with the zone descriptions, it was a mistake, and they removed it right away.

[Nymrohd]

According to the story, Eversong is suffering from LightBlooming, like Harandar, so Halduron sets out with Orweyna to investigate it.

BUT COME ON… why do we even need trolls there, lol?? Maybe their druids, yes. Or maybe some history researchers/archaeologists. But, God, we’re literally heading to the convergence of all World Trees, and there are no Night Elves in this story... Or someone from the Cenarion Circle...

Why did it even have to be an original race at all that is down there?

[Super Dickmann]

Why did it even have to be an original race at all that is down there?

If we really had to do even more content about trees and trust me, we really don't, it should have been tauren, specifically our tauren heading in while you could keep the various primeval animals down there. The Earthmother has never been relevant and neither have they. They dodged the shot of making An'she the Bald Man, so they deserve to have the Earthmother be Azeroth and to be stolen away by The Man (TM). Then they can snatch their first W of their thankless existence.

Mind, just putting Halduron in there is still a vast improvement, and, as terrible as it seems to be purely conceptually putting Liadrin in fr the Zul'Aman segment also does what used to be baseline back in the day, which is entering the new land from the perspective of the races we know and care about instead of encountering these sectioned-off side tribes that swallow the narrative oxygen and high resolution assets and then never recur.

[DenPhoenix]

Why did it even have to be an original race at all that is down there?

Well then, maybe it’s time to bring back the dark trolls in the game, not the Zandalari?)) Like Ik’nal from BFA.

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Mind, just putting Halduron in there is still a vast improvement.

One aspect of Halduron’s involvement in this story is the revival of the idea of the Farstriders’ interaction with Nature.

I don’t remember exactly, but it will definitely be mentioned in the quests. Like Halduron senses something, and so on.

[Raetary]

What do belves even have to do with haranir at all? There's no link between both plots

Are you serious?

We are venturing into Harandar at all because the latest Sunwell surge caused the Lightbloom to go out of control.
Orweyna realized that the core of the issue is growing out of Harandar, so we go there and meet them.

Our Harandar escapades are entirely linked to the plot in Quel'thalas.

Sorry for expecting zandalari in a expansion where zandalari have been explicitly mentioned in the publicity, next time I'll expect nelfs

Maybe you should be looking for them in the designated Troll zone, or are we just gonna ignore Zul'Aman and the very obvious patch zone right next to it?

No troll tribe is isolated. Dark trolls ended up in the Well of Eternity following the araqi by order of the Zandalari Empire. All tribes are connected thanks to Dazar'Alor.

This is nonsense.

The Dark Trolls lived completely detached from the other Troll tribes, not concerning themselves with their politics whatsoever.
They stumbled on the WoE by accident, after migrating towards to the center of the continent on their own, not on Zandalari behalf.

Yet one tribe was unconcered with these battles for land and power. Known as Dark dark trolls, they lived in a network of deep caverns that stretched beneath Mount Hyjal.
They abhorred daylight, only emerging from their underground burrows at night. The dark trolls' nocturnal habits changed them over time, turning their blue-hued skin into shades of gray.
The dark trolls cherished their independence from greater troll society, and they largely ignored the activities of other tribes. Unlike their Gurubashi and Amani cousins, they longed for a peaceful connection to the natural world. Dark troll mystics often sought ways to commune with the land and live in harmony with it.
Many of these trolls gradually migrated towards the center of Kalimdor.
They explored the labyrinthine groves at the heart of the continent, crossing paths with the elusive faerie dragons, chimaeras and dryads. In time, the dark trolls also discovered am enormous lake of scintillating energies, a lake they would later know as the Well of Eternity.