Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Cheezits]

I wonder, Maxwell was part of the Argent Dawn since Vanilla, and he was in the past often depicted as more level headed than other wielders of the Light (talking to Zabra Hex, instead of just killing the troll). Perhaps he is not zealous enough to be called by the well? I always liked the Argent Dawn and i would love to see them as a more mature and level headed counterpoint to the Vanguard of the Light.

That would be an interesting point considering Anduin, Velen, Faerin and others that are pretty chill are there to counteract the ones who would likely side with Turalyon if he did a coup (Fareeya, random new Arathi lady, Belf guy whose name I forget that is rounding up "sus folk" like Tehd). Then you have the could go either way characters like Salandria, Rommath, Kyron.

I think a Vanguard of Light Coup is inevitable but I'm unsure Turalyon will be the instigator, and why the light brought such a varied group if it knew one would happen.

By the way it's bizarre that this random Arathi is one of Turalyon's top agents instead of someone like Great Kyron. I assume she will be explained in the novel but still, if Great Kyron sided with the Light/Turalyon over Azeroth, it would be such a great arc for Faerin to have to fight him. Instead we get a random bigback to get villainbatted.

[LarryWithTheWeatherReport]

This, BfA content is more than fine if there's no Azerite system. It is also the last expansion that was not a two patch wonder, I think BfA remix would work just fine.

I hope The Last Titan is back to the 3 major patch one to end off the trilogy.

TBC and Wrath remix would work if they remastered all the sets and mounts.

Would love WOTLK but also really want a Cataclysm, BFA, and WoD too. If they expand the time thing with the Infinite, I can see some good connections with WoD. As that expansion was always awesome but was bad from a lore standpoint.

[milkmustache]

Oh, we get some Ebon Blade there?

At the moment, it seems we only get the Horsemen, but I imagine that's updated.

[Enrif]

That would be an interesting point considering Anduin, Velen, Faerin and others that are pretty chill are there to counteract the ones who would likely side with Turalyon if he did a coup (Fareeya, random new Arathi lady, Belf guy whose name I forget that is rounding up "sus folk" like Tehd). Then you have the could go either way characters like Salandria, Rommath, Kyron.

I think a Vanguard of Light Coup is inevitable but I'm unsure Turalyon will be the instigator, and why the light brought such a varied group if it knew one would happen.

hmm, yeah, i wouldn't call Anduin zealous usually... but then there is his whole arc of despising his "pleasure" of inflicting harm during his domination time. perhaps it is that? The satisfaction of aggression? But then we get people like Velen who... should be more wise, and after Legion especialy, should know how to see the light in a more level headed way.

hmm... a real mystery, why not Maxwell. What makes him different?

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At the moment, it seems we only get the Horsemen, but I imagine that's updated.

That is a start, and i would imagine it could be enough. Though, i think Thassarian and Koltira would have been a better choice, considering the setting of Midnight. (Thassarian was one of the soldiers under arthas, and as a DK he marched onto Quel'thalas with Arthas, and killed Koltira, thus recruiting him to the DKs)

[Vakir]

BFA deserves a Remix. Its systems are the primary thing that stood in the way of its quality, kumbaya ending lore aside. The zones were great, the raids were great, the opening cinematic is for my money the single best in the game's history. The only weakness to the major patches was the reuse of zones for the assaults. The Heart is perfectly suited for an Infinite setup without being reliant on the Azerite pieces.

Islands with an infinite M+ scalable difficulty attached to the PvP AI would be fun if possible. They can also go a little crazier with Warfronts which I thought were the most wasted potential feature of all time.

[Limayria]

That would be an interesting point considering Anduin, Velen, Faerin and others that are pretty chill are there to counteract the ones who would likely side with Turalyon if he did a coup (Fareeya, random new Arathi lady, Belf guy whose name I forget that is rounding up "sus folk" like Tehd). Then you have the could go either way characters like Salandria, Rommath, Kyron.

I think a Vanguard of Light Coup is inevitable but I'm unsure Turalyon will be the instigator, and why the light brought such a varied group if it knew one would happen.

By the way it's bizarre that this random Arathi is one of Turalyon's top agents instead of someone like Great Kyron. I assume she will be explained in the novel but still, if Great Kyron sided with the Light/Turalyon over Azeroth, it would be such a great arc for Faerin to have to fight him. Instead we get a random bigback to get villainbatted.

Id be heart broke to fight Great kyron. I've always kinda felt it's gonna happen for some reason tho.

I think he might not be turyalon's second in command because he's a lamplighter and not a general. And at least from what I gather d doing the Arathi quest lamplighters are more of solo or small group special forces units rather than large scale military people. So Kyron is more like the Shaw of the Arathi


Also on the topic of remixes, BFA would be incredible. Islands are the literal perfect remix content, maybe even add an island mode with no opposing team. Has a big pool of m+ dungeons, lots of raids, lots of quest, tons of cosmetics etc. BFA also would have the heart for infinite power, and then azertite armor or corruptions for our power boost

Shadowlands would also make a good remix, the maw would be more bearable with remix power level, we'd have torghast too and shadowlands remix would be a great time to get non covent locked versions of all the covent cosmetics

[LarryWithTheWeatherReport]

BFA deserves a Remix. Its systems are the primary thing that stood in the way of its quality, kumbaya ending lore aside. The zones were great, the raids were great, the opening cinematic is for my money the single best in the game's history. The only weakness to the major patches was the reuse of zones for the assaults. The Heart is perfectly suited for an Infinite setup without being reliant on the Azerite pieces.

Islands with an infinite M+ scalable difficulty attached to the PvP AI would be fun if possible. They can also go a little crazier with Warfronts which I thought were the most wasted potential feature of all time.

Always did thought BFA had the potential to be the best expansion as it has a bunch of good stuff in it like the Zandalari, Kul Tiras, cool island pve mode where we see a lot of different variety of enemies. Naga, old god, N'zoth, Azshara. They just didn't use most of them to their full potential and wasted the Black Empire and Azshara along with N'zoth. While I'm not a fan of faction wars storywise but I'll admit the way they did it was pretty cool and awesome. The Cinematic trailer was one of my favorite easily top 3 at least or even first place like you say.

Even with some disappointing things, BFA still remains among one of the better expansions.

[Rosstafa]

BFA deserves a Remix. Its systems are the primary thing that stood in the way of its quality, kumbaya ending lore aside. The zones were great, the raids were great, the opening cinematic is for my money the single best in the game's history. The only weakness to the major patches was the reuse of zones for the assaults. The Heart is perfectly suited for an Infinite setup without being reliant on the Azerite pieces.

Islands with an infinite M+ scalable difficulty attached to the PvP AI would be fun if possible. They can also go a little crazier with Warfronts which I thought were the most wasted potential feature of all time.

BFA deserves a reix if purely for the fact it will give us the opportunity to easily obtain the heroic warfronts gear again.

IMO the only reason BFA isn't remembered fondly is because two of its main features - warfronts and island expeditions - completely fell flat. Everything else was great. The zones and questing were awesome, the raids generally brilliant, and we got tonnes of allied races added to the game. The lack of tier sets and each raid being limited to 4 appearances was pretty rubbish too, to be fair.

[Ashahalasin]

Would love a BFA remix. Use the essences and crank those up to 11, you've already got the overpowered affixes in place to choose from.
Could also gate it by patch as well, which would work well, as you've got choice of horde/alliance levelling for multiple alts.

This way could also scrap the heart, or do a remix, where the heart just functions like the weapon does now and we just power it up, with essence affixes for boosts.
Would recontextualize all the work that's already been done, and fix up the rougher systems.

[Enrif]

BFA deserves a reix if purely for the fact it will give us the opportunity to easily obtain the heroic warfronts gear again.

IMO the only reason BFA isn't remembered fondly is because two of its main features - warfronts and island expeditions - completely fell flat. Everything else was great. The zones and questing were awesome, the raids generally brilliant, and we got tonnes of allied races added to the game. The lack of tier sets and each raid being limited to 4 appearances was pretty rubbish too, to be fair.

warfronts and islands were not the issue, but the azerite farming tied to, though for me as a casual, both were absolutely fine.

Also, i vividly remember the shit talking about the Azshara and N'zoth patches and their conclusions.

[bruxx]

BFA deserves a reix if purely for the fact it will give us the opportunity to easily obtain the heroic warfronts gear again.

IMO the only reason BFA isn't remembered fondly is because two of its main features - warfronts and island expeditions - completely fell flat. Everything else was great. The zones and questing were awesome, the raids generally brilliant, and we got tonnes of allied races added to the game. The lack of tier sets and each raid being limited to 4 appearances was pretty rubbish too, to be fair.

To be fair, with the tier sets that we have gotten since, I kinda get the idea of going armor type sets instead... The art is generally uninspired and generic, yet a lot of work.

[Vakir]

Also on the topic of remixes, BFA would be incredible. Islands are the literal perfect remix content, maybe even add an island mode with no opposing team. Has a big pool of m+ dungeons, lots of raids, lots of quest, tons of cosmetics etc. BFA also would have the heart for infinite power, and then azertite armor or corruptions for our power boost

Shadowlands would also make a good remix, the maw would be more bearable with remix power level, we'd have torghast too and shadowlands remix would be a great time to get non covent locked versions of all the covent cosmetics

Also, time.

A faster Maw even with no flying is reasonable, and I think they could probably find a way to enable it anyway. There's tons of content I would have way more enjoyment playing if it wasn't either time or resource gated, like the party invites or the resources to start the various trials. Cutting all that shit would make a lot of those activities orders of magnitude more enjoyable. I liked the prepping of the former and the Shartuul event type mechanics of the latter. I hated having to do invites more than once.

So many system problems got in the way of BFA, SL, and even a lot of Legion. If they launched with the DF standard we have now in terms of talents and the like, they'd probably be fondly remembered other than the dogshit stories, which has been a sticking point in WoW in some capacity pretty much forever.

Worst iteration of the mission board by far, too.

[Nymrohd]

It could. Though you could also argue that sending players to Northrend right before an expansion also in Northrend is a weird choice. Even if there will be large changes.

Personally I am not sure which expansion would work best though. Legion was definitely the best choice if you assume Remix will always be designed to last this long. Though that could just be me wanting loads of cosmetics to farm.

Might be a weird choice in terms of it being so recent. But I could honestly see Dragonflight being given the Remix treatment. Less of a focus on cosmetics (even if there are several options) and more just about bringing players up to speed on important story beats. (Though admittedly, maybe Lore walking is a better choice for that)

Remix gameplay is M+ and raid runs. Dragonflight had the least raid content of all expansions until TWW came with even less.

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Also, time.

A faster Maw even with no flying is reasonable, and I think they could probably find a way to enable it anyway. There's tons of content I would have way more enjoyment playing if it wasn't either time or resource gated, like the party invites or the resources to start the various trials. Cutting all that shit would make a lot of those activities orders of magnitude more enjoyable. I liked the prepping of the former and the Shartuul event type mechanics of the latter. I hated having to do invites more than once.

So many system problems got in the way of BFA, SL, and even a lot of Legion. If they launched with the DF standard we have now in terms of talents and the like, they'd probably be fondly remembered other than the dogshit stories, which has been a sticking point in WoW in some capacity pretty much forever.

Worst iteration of the mission board by far, too.

Would things like the Venthyr Court parties even exist in a Remix?

[Rosstafa]

To be fair, with the tier sets that we have gotten since, I kinda get the idea of going armor type sets instead... The art is generally uninspired and generic, yet a lot of work.

Not every raid tier is equal, and there have definitely been some stinkers, but I'd much rather have more options than be limited to a single set for my class in a tier. The raid sets have generally been pretty great the past couple of expansions overall, with some decent options for multiple armour types.

warfronts and islands were not the issue, but the azerite farming tied to, though for me as a casual, both were absolutely fine.

Also, i vividly remember the shit talking about the Azshara and N'zoth patches and their conclusions.

Everyone shit on expeditions and warfronts at the time. They just didn't engage with people. The azerite system wasn't popular either but it wasn't exactly a huge selling point of the expansion that required such a huge amount of development time. Expeditions and warfronts were planned to be a lot bigger, and their failure kind of screwed the rest of the expansion.

[Enrif]

To be fair, with the tier sets that we have gotten since, I kinda get the idea of going armor type sets instead... The art is generally uninspired and generic, yet a lot of work.

on one hand, yes, on the other we got some really great sets in TWW and DF that we would have not gotten otherwise.

I think there could be a middle ground, were raid themed sets, and class themed sets are used alternating. Even the maligned raid themed class sets (Sepulcher of the First Ones/Vault of the Incarnates) could have a place in there.

Example for TWW: the first tier is full on class themed, each class has their best version of class set that we got in TWW. second tier, full Goblin themed class sets. third tier, raid themed sets per armor type.

[Nymrohd]

A Classic remix which includes Classic, TBC and Wrath would be a lot better than just Wrath alone which I feel would just be a total waste as outside of Invincible and Mimiron’s Head it would just feel redundant.

They can bring back removed stuff like you said. However, I still think all appearances and mounts from those expansions would be in dire need of reskin.

Oh so . . . what China is getting?

[Enrif]

Everyone shit on expeditions and warfronts at the time. They just didn't engage with people. The azerite system wasn't popular either but it wasn't exactly a huge selling point of the expansion that required such a huge amount of development time. Expeditions and warfronts were planned to be a lot bigger, and their failure kind of screwed the rest of the expansion.

Expeditions specifically were tied to azerite, which made them the Torghast before Torghast. A mandatory thing. If it would have had a reward structure like delves have now, it would have easily been a great feature. And in a way, it is a prototype of what delves have become.

warfronts took too long, that was their biggest sin. Elsewise they were a cute addition to get some gear.

[Vakir]

Would things like the Venthyr Court parties even exist in a Remix?

Probably not, but board skips in Lemix or not needing to roll into your spec defining Legiondary instead of dumping a Sephuz into your inventory puts into perspective how completely hostile the artificial lengthening process is to the game as a whole when relating the expediting to last expansions.

Even with the time gating of Lemix it at least gives you an idea of the story progression and the content cadence rather than just immediately face rolling into Argus at the right time.

The mechanics behind so many time wasters in BFA and SL made them actively worse than just having them be accessible regularly.

Everyone shit on expeditions and warfronts at the time. They just didn't engage with people. The azerite system wasn't popular either but it wasn't exactly a huge selling point of the expansion that required such a huge amount of development time. Expeditions and warfronts were planned to be a lot bigger, and their failure kind of screwed the rest of the expansion.

Expeditions didn't launch in the manner they exist now, though.

On launch, a big Azerite eruption was the mid event literally every queue. Nobody knew how rewards worked and they said it was for the purposes of mystery and exploration, but upon cracking it on the forums, it became increasingly clear that getting pets and mounts incentivized killing mobs but not the priority of winning via the intended end goal of getting your Azerite up as fast as possible. Creating a huge conflict between the two.

Naturally the final system was way more reasonable, just like Corruption and Legiondary vendors. It was all designed to be as hostile as possible to keep you playing until they said "we hear your feedback!" at the last minute until they realized nobody was taking that shit anymore around the SL exodus.

Of course, Warfronts were the opposite. Literally nothing mattered and it was a bland face roll. They didn't even try to construct what could have been an interesting smaller group MMO combat MOBA.

This was also pre-Warband where everything was deliberately anti-alt. All of this is WHY these content ideas failed.

[Rosstafa]

on one hand, yes, on the other we got some really great sets in TWW and DF that we would have not gotten otherwise.

I think there could be a middle ground, were raid themed sets, and class themed sets are used alternating. Even the maligned raid themed class sets (Sepulcher of the First Ones/Vault of the Incarnates) could have a place in there.

Example for TWW: the first tier is full on class themed, each class has their best version of class set that we got in TWW. second tier, full Goblin themed class sets. third tier, raid themed sets per armor type.

In my opinion, they've found a good system now; let the raid sets reflect the diversity of themes of the classes, and let the outdoor sets for that tier reflect the theme of the raid. The four Karesh/ethereal sets we got were sick - we did not need any more than that. Same with the Undermine outdoor sets.

Expeditions specifically were tied to azerite, which made them the Torghast before Torghast. A mandatory thing. If it would have had a reward structure like delves have now, it would have easily been a great feature. And in a way, it is a prototype of what delves have become.

warfronts took too long, that was their biggest sin. Elsewise they were a cute addition to get some gear.

The borrowed power systems being tied to content that wasn't particularly engaging just compounded the issue. Island expeditions were marginally better than warfronts in the sense that there were some diversity to them. Once you did a warfront for the first time, you'd kind of seen it all.

[allegrian]

BFA had the problem of feeling like 3 litttle expansions instead of one. We went from kul tiras + zandalar and faction war to azshara and then nzoth. In Legion you were building up the counterattack to the legion (with a random sprinkle of emerald nightmare), from suramar, then closing the portal + killing kiljaeden and finally raiding argus. It was a continious story that made sense. TWW has a similar problem to BFA, were every patch is basically an standalone story mostly unrelated to the previous ones.

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In my opinion, they've found a good system now; let the raid sets reflect the diversity of themes of the classes, and let the outdoor sets for that tier reflect the theme of the raid. The four Karesh/ethereal sets we got were sick - we did not need any more than that. Same with the Undermine outdoor sets.



The borrowed power systems being tied to content that wasn't particularly engaging just compounded the issue. Island expeditions were marginally better than warfronts in the sense that there were some diversity to them. Once you did a warfront for the first time, you'd kind of seen it all.

Warfronts were stupid and should have been epic battlegrounds. Everything was about getting enough lumber to build the siege machines.