Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Lady Atia]

I think while in other expansions Blizzard made poor choices, WoD is the one where we know they actually failed. Their original concept for Garrisons could never be realized and they sunk months of development into it until we got what we got. As the cost of development of a single feature kept rising, they had nothing else to show for gameplay systems so everything had to be tied to it. The rewards team had so little time to work on WoD that we got reputarions more basic than vanilla's

But .... the WoD reps (aswell as their rewards ...) were an answer tp direct feedback back than after MoP's shitty daily grinds. That's why we got Apexis "proto Worldquests", followed by proper worldquests in Legion.

I remember people being hyped about reps being similiar to classic back than, lol. It was deliberate, and had nothing to do with the garrisons. In fact, iirc even Legion only had the paragon mounts for rep added later on aswell, after they realized that mounts sell the game?

[Santandame]

Call me crazy, but I liked WoD. I enjoyed the Garrison, it didn’t bother me. I loved the zones. I loved the levelling. I loved the vibes. I loved the instances. I liked Ashran. I liked Stormshield. Lack of content sure, but I play seasonally and the content we did get I liked immensely.

It’s not a top 3 expansion for me but if it had shipped with WQ’s and Keystones with their own version of Legion Assaults then it would have been a top 3 expansion for me.

[Lady Atia]

Yeah, while you can argue, that other expansions like BfA and SL certainly had (massive) flaws, WoD is probably the only (and hopefully last) expansion, that failed on a fundamental level.

The dungeons and raids were good, but WoD had basically the same issues as Shadowlands - too long patches, and yes, cut content (Shattrath Raid / Farahlon / Karabor as city).

Both WoD and Shadowlands would have been great with the current design philosophy and the mini patches, and both can easily work as a remix (even though WoD would have to be shorter, which is also not a bad thing as you can just tack it on alongside a turboboost mid expansion).

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Call me crazy, but I liked WoD. I enjoyed the Garrison, it didn’t bother me. I loved the zones. I loved the levelling. I loved the vibes. I loved the instances. Lack of content sure, but I play seasonally and the content we did get I liked immensely.

It’s not a top 3 expansion for me but if it had shipped with WQ’s and Keystones with their own version of Legion Assaults then it would have been a top 3 expansion for me.

Yeah, wod leveling was really good, shadowmoon valley is in my top 3 favourite zones alongside silverpine forest (1) and valsharah (2). Talador was also great, as was the short Nagrand questline. And I really loved what they did with the different clans.

But yeah, I would play WoD/Shadowlands remixes 10 times over shitty BfA. Besides that, classic remix (vanilla - wotlk) would be dope aswell, or MoP remix 2.0 with M+ and recoloured cm sets (give me the red pala set).

[Nymrohd]

Call me crazy, but I liked WoD. I enjoyed the Garrison, it didn’t bother me. I loved the zones. I loved the levelling. I loved the vibes. I loved the instances. I liked Ashran. I liked Stormshield. Lack of content sure, but I play seasonally and the content we did get I liked immensely.

It’s not a top 3 expansion for me but if it had shipped with WQ’s and Keystones with their own version of Legion Assaults then it would have been a top 3 expansion for me.

I mean, I liked what was there. It was enough content for maybe 6-8 months and it lasted 20. That's a problem.

[Santandame]

I mean, I liked what was there. It was enough content for maybe 6-8 months and it lasted 20. That's a problem.

I don’t disagree. But I only play for probably half of even that. So selfishly, for me, I loved it. But I can absolutely see why many didn’t find it acceptable.

[Nymrohd]

I don’t disagree. But I only play for probably half of even that. So selfishly, for me, I loved it. But I can absolutely see why many didn’t find it acceptable.

Hey I also just stopped playing for a full 6 months switching to other games instead.
I'd argue that if you could find a group of 10-30 people, you could experience most expansions in a concentrated 3-4 months of quality gaming. Which is what fated seasons could be. With all catch up systems live, with the best version of gameplay after everything was adequately fixed.

[Lady Atia]

Hey I also just stopped playing for a full 6 months switching to other games instead.
I'd argue that if you could find a group of 10-30 people, you could experience most expansions in a concentrated 3-4 months of quality gaming. Which is what fated seasons could be. With all catch up systems live, with the best version of gameplay after everything was adequately fixed.

No. People should play a season to see a raid, there shouldn't be an easy cheat mode version of it at the end of an expansion that invalidates the past 3 tiers.

I would be ok with making mythic pugable by the end of a season (which was the case with Undermine tbf), but the whole fated system was bullshit and hopefully, never comes back. Remix is a far better version of that since it gives some years breather before we experience the content again.

[Jaggler]

The dungeons and raids were good, but WoD had basically the same issues as Shadowlands - too long patches, and yes, cut content (Shattrath Raid / Farahlon / Karabor as city).

Both WoD and Shadowlands would have been great with the current design philosophy and the mini patches, and both can easily work as a remix (even though WoD would have to be shorter, which is also not a bad thing as you can just tack it on alongside a turboboost mid expansion).

Yeah, the raids were good indeed, but content outside of raids was basically non-existant. That's why I put Shadowlands a smidge above WoD, because at least it had stuff to do outside of your weekly raid.

Hey I also just stopped playing for a full 6 months switching to other games instead.
I'd argue that if you could find a group of 10-30 people, you could experience most expansions in a concentrated 3-4 months of quality gaming. Which is what fated seasons could be. With all catch up systems live, with the best version of gameplay after everything was adequately fixed.

You just know, they wouldn't be able to fix Dawnbreaker in time for a fated season. I don't believe thrid time's the charm in that case.

[Bozzoltank]

Blackrock Foundry is, in my opinion, the greatest raid of all time. A visual treat, unique bosses, and a killer Blackhand encounter. It's fantastic.

[Joshuaj]

Antorus is my favorite raid, easily. That opinion will NEVER change.

[THEORACLE64]

Antorus is my favorite raid, easily. That opinion will NEVER change.

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[Xilurm]

It's a pretty good raid. The Eonar encounter is kinda iffy though. People are gonna be annoyed by that in Remix.

[GeometryWizard]

Eonar will be fine by the time Argus comes out IMO. More and more people will be ilvl 740 with over 100+% versatility so you'll only need a few people to stay back and defend Eonar when the ship starts charging

[Cheezits]

Antorus fights are really fun and varied, probably one of the best raids IMO besides Eonar.

I haven't had that much fun in a raid since- controversial opinion- Sanctum of Domination. Undermine was good too.

[Joshuaj]

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What? It's good. The music is amazing, the art is peak, the story importance has never been topped, the bosses were pretty entertaining (Yes, even Eonar...), etc.

[Sondrelk]

Eonar will be fine by the time Argus comes out IMO. More and more people will be ilvl 740 with over 100+% versatility so you'll only need a few people to stay back and defend Eonar when the ship starts charging

Assuming it isn't changed back to how it used to work as well, you could easily just have one person do the entire thing. Just need one person per spawn point to not require anyone running around preventing Eonar from begin attacked.

[huth]

Eonar will be fine by the time Argus comes out IMO. More and more people will be ilvl 740 with over 100+% versatility so you'll only need a few people to stay back and defend Eonar when the ship starts charging

Conversely, you'll probably be able to handle the ship with 4 people or less.

[Enrif]

Aside from Invincible and Mimiron’s Head, what rewards are there in Wrath that are worth it for a remix? Essentially that’s what remix is. A fast paced event to easily and reliably get cosmetics from that expansion.

All Wrath cosmetics are horribly dated, as well as easily farmed with the exception of Invincible and Mimiron’s Head. It has very little content outside of raids and dungeons - and remix raids and dungeons are hardly content as they’re just fast, essentially one shot boss rushes.

It would feel totally redundant to have a Wrath remix. Little content and dated cosmetics that for the most part are easily obtained already.

BfA and Shadowlands without all the rubbish that bogged them down (azerite armour, covenants, timegating) are much better candidates for a remix. A breadth of content including expeditions, warfronts and Torghast as well as a large roster of cosmetics that are still a ball ache to obtain to this day.

Wrath has a few things that could be worthwhile, but in a much shorter remix thant legion. For one, a few weapons that were removed from the Trial of the Crusader. And since other remix added new stuff too, there are a few pieces in the files or part of visual sets that are not avialable to the players. Like the Argent Crusader Shields. Also, with a Wrath Remix, they could give us a Frostmourne. Just saying.

[LarryWithTheWeatherReport]

Call me crazy, but I liked WoD. I enjoyed the Garrison, it didn’t bother me. I loved the zones. I loved the levelling. I loved the vibes. I loved the instances. I liked Ashran. I liked Stormshield. Lack of content sure, but I play seasonally and the content we did get I liked immensely.

It’s not a top 3 expansion for me but if it had shipped with WQ’s and Keystones with their own version of Legion Assaults then it would have been a top 3 expansion for me.

Same! Love how I get my little own garrison and the zones were awesome and especially enemies were awesome. Like fighting the Iron Horde and the plant faction and breaker faction. The characters like Yrel, Blackhand, Gul'dan, Cho'ghall etc were all great too. Blackhand was so much more badass than MU Blackhand.

Only thing I didn't like at first was the lore and I guess not enough content.

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What? It's good. The music is amazing, the art is peak, the story importance has never been topped, the bosses were pretty entertaining (Yes, even Eonar...), etc.

Yeah Artorus was epic, I can understand that reaction if someone said the Deathwing raid was their favorite.

[Lady Atia]

Yeah, the raids were good indeed, but content outside of raids was basically non-existant. That's why I put Shadowlands a smidge above WoD, because at least it had stuff to do outside of your weekly raid.



You just know, they wouldn't be able to fix Dawnbreaker in time for a fated season. I don't believe thrid time's the charm in that case.

But, remix is literally raid and m+ rush mode. You don't really need anything more than that (and now please, don't say how much you enjoy the heroic world tier hahaha).

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Antorus fights are really fun and varied, probably one of the best raids IMO besides Eonar.

I haven't had that much fun in a raid since- controversial opinion- Sanctum of Domination. Undermine was good too.

I ..... I .... I actually .... I actually liked Eonar.

Yes I said it.

And I mean it.