Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[GeometryWizard]

I think it's more about the overall approach to them than the questlines themselves. The Garrosh one is the biggest lore breaker. The rest are just sorta odd mischaracterizations.

Every single character is old and tired and weary and doesn't want to fight anything anymore. Every character is every character.

On top of that it's so offputting that all these fairly major characters in their respective factions are all gathering in this interdimensional tavern at once like they have nothing better to do. You get a quest from Eitrigg and Crowley to spar with their children and there's zero buildup. You get a portal to where they're at and they're standing around doing nothing and agree to fight immediately and then you leave. It makes the world feel so small and lifeless when every quest is just taking a portal to do a 10 second chore for an important character who are all chummy friends with each other now. They said it'd be venturing across the world uncovering artifacts but instead it's like the writers putting their Twitter impressions of their favorite characters into the game with the Twitter character limits and all

The whole experience feels like some kind of cheap private server hub and even that's outdated because of how much effort some recent private servers have put into presentation. This is like the lore version of Dastardly Duos, just pure slop content put out so the checklist of expac features is a little longer

[Lahis]

As an aside, did the recent round of layoffs at Microsoft hit Blizzard in any way?

Even if it didn't now, the next one will inevitably hit them.

Required 30% profit margins are insane. Microsoft will keep laying off people, shutting down studios and cancelling projects untill they hit that target (which is never, so all Microsoft owned game IPs are going to the shitter).

[Eldryth]

The Arcantina really just feels like an evergreen version of Everywhen Inn, that inn in Dragonflight that sent you on silly daily quests to fix the timeline. The tone was more or less the same back then too, but I guess it doesn't work as well when it's all set in the present and ostensibly canon.

[Mecheon]

Bruh, the magical flying unicorn is probably the most widespread depiction of unicorns in the modern day...

I'd argue The Last Unicorn or My Little Pony is probably more influential on what a unicorn is in the modern day, and unicorns don't fly in either.

Pegasi are the stereotypical flying horse, and if they had a bunch of pegasi hanging around (perhaps based on that fire horse for Lunar New Year), well, that's fine as a flight master mount. But unicorns are magic horses and more grounded

[Gurahk]

Is there another bad Arcantina quest? I have seen some griping about Nisha talking about wanting to chill and stop fighting but- the Sethrak war is done, so whatever.

Most of the arcantina quests from what I've seen is basically just how wars are over and now they get to laugh and have fun and hold hands.

[DenPhoenix]

Even more, the dev who placed the Sylverian Dreamer there had asked on Twitter what a high elf racial mount would be, was received with an overwhelming amount of responses saying "Unicorn" or "Hippogryph", looked at them and decided they didn't work and picked the Sylverian Dreamer.

The confusing part is why it had to be asked at all? They have always had a Unicorn in their iconography, and they have always ridden dragonhawks. Revamped Quel'thalas is full of dragonhawks and unicorns.

But we pick Sylverian Dreamer. I do not understand the logic at all.

Don’t look for "logic" in the actions of the person who wrote the Red Dawn storyline ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

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It seems this dev also had heavy involvement in the very well accepted Arathi Highlands questline, so maybe strongly worded receptions to questlines don't work.

He clearly saw all the PTR feedback on Twitter, took part in the discussions, and yet didn't change a single thing in the Red Dawn storyline)))

[Xilurm]

The dev that wrote the Red Dawn storyline is also the one that is giving players the option to tell Danath to shut up so I just think he doesn't like WC2 characters. Hopefully he doesn't touch Night Elves. Though the fact that Red Dawn is all about traditions being garbage, that might be the same dev that wrote the attrocious NE heritage questline anyway.

[Polybius]

The dev that wrote the Red Dawn storyline is also the one that is giving players the option to tell Danath to shut up so I just think he doesn't like WC2 characters. Hopefully he doesn't touch Night Elves. Though the fact that Red Dawn is all about traditions being garbage, that might be the same dev that wrote the attrocious NE heritage questline anyway.

You mean the same option to silence NPCs in Dornogal who ruin roleplay with their dialogue/emotes? I don’t think it’s that deep.

[milkmustache]

The dev that wrote the Red Dawn storyline is also the one that is giving players the option to tell Danath to shut up so I just think he doesn't like WC2 characters.

I'm critical of the Red Dawn quest, but I think this is a massive reach.

[Viridiel]

I could see the Twilights Blade as a source, but that leads to multiple areas and hard to pin down. Silithus and Twilight Highlands make sense. Even Caverns of Time make sense if it leads to Murozond involvement.

I think that's where I'm at when it comes to Xal'atath's story, not necessarily where we go in Midnight though. She could be dealt with in Midnight, but I'm thinking they really want to keep her in their pocket since she's a popular villain. Xal'atath, Denathrius, and Iridikron are the main three that have really resonated with players and I think they recognise that it would be a waste not to capitalise on that and keep them around for as long as they can.

We'll have to see what actually happens with her and the giant black sun she's created using the Dark Heart. If we actually completely foil her and destroy/disperse/purify the energy she's collected then I think she'll end up slinking back to the Twilight's Blade to show up later, probably with more traditional Old God styling rather than Cosmic Void (my headcanon is that Balor is now the headquarters of the Twilight's Hammer/Blade). If she manages to escape mostly intact, though, I do think there's a non-zero chance she'll choose to attack the Zereths since her goal is apparently to devour the entire universe, and I'm certain the titan conspiracy is going to involve the Zereths too. At this point it seems like it would need to be a universal threat to trigger the return of the titans, because they certainly don't seem to care all that much about immediate threats to Azeroth.

Otherwise I'm still wondering where the hell Azshara is. The Dawnwell seems very much like the kind of thing she would want to take control of, and she's scheduled to show up any day now.

[Luck4]

A few weeks ago, everyone was excited about the alpha... now everyone is in therapy.

Blizzard needs to stop using WoW as a propaganda machine; bringing politics into a fantasy setting completely kills the vibe. I suppose they didn't learn anything from the mistakes made by some infamous shows.

[Mecheon]

Blizzard needs to stop using WoW as a propaganda machine; bringing politics into a fantasy setting completely kills the vibe. I suppose they didn't learn anything from the mistakes made by some infamous shows.

Politics has always been in fantasy. Lord of the Rings is the obvious one but, y'know, Warcraft 3 was pretty political

Also like, what's political we're complaining about this time? The big upset at the moment are the dragons and the Arcanthia quests which, genuinely aren't political

[Cheezits]

A few weeks ago, everyone was excited about the alpha... now everyone is in therapy.

Blizzard needs to stop using WoW as a propaganda machine; bringing politics into a fantasy setting completely kills the vibe. I suppose they didn't learn anything from the mistakes made by some infamous shows.

If a couple shitty quests and mediocre writing is enough to send people to therapy, people need a new hobby, as WoW has suffered far worse- mechanically most of all.

I've yet to see a critique about Midnight's GAMEPLAY that isn't some of the specs feeling neutered.

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Also like, what's political we're complaining about this time? The big upset at the moment are the dragons and the Arcanthia quests which, genuinely aren't political

As stupid as the Garrosh questline is, lorewise, the fact that some people think it's insulting to them to be forced to shit on WoW Hitler is not only VERY timely to current politics but also very funny.

[Schwert]

Are "High Elf" players actually pissing themselves over... a random mount being used for a race that barely has any relevance?
This is just getting pathetic at this point.

The focus is on Blood / Void Elves, not the super hyper niche boring subrace elf. Of course the devs don't care. The fact that they even have any presence at all should be enough, and even then the focus should have entirely been on Void / Blood. You know, the core races?

Nothing will ever shut these people up except turning the game's lore actually upside down to appease them.
I hope the devs ignore them.

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Sigh

Why do they want another faction war

This is Warcraft.

[Mecheon]

Nah. It isn't 'timely' at all. In fact, that insinuation is exactly what a lot of people are pretty weary and wary of. Especially those of us who are not American and are tired of existing, beloved franchises being hijacked by deranged activists with a perpetual chip atop their shoulder.

If you think its being hijacked I'd recommend going back and replaying the MoP storyline all over again because you missed how Garrosh was written. MoP classic is right up on the classic realms, even

[GeometryWizard]

As stupid as the Garrosh questline is, lorewise, the fact that some people think it's insulting to them to be forced to shit on WoW Hitler is not only VERY timely to current politics but also very funny.

Beaten to it but I don't think the stir over the Garrosh quest has much to do with politics either. The character just has a lot of appeal right now because he was so unapologetically himself compared to now where every single character is being rewritten to become the same identical passive character. You can't imagine Garrosh being part of the silent virtuous peacenik crowd that's taken over WoW and that appeals to people that aren't happy with the current tone of the writing.

Furthermore his atrocities have become null and void after Sylvanas. Whenever you eventually do this quest it is impossible to not be reminded that one of the most heinous villains in the history of the series got off with a slap on the wrist and is greeted cordially by the main character of Midnight who meanwhile balks at every little unanswered injustice he sees elsewhere in the story. Blizzard had a sexism problem back in the day with how they treated their female characters but all they've done is reverse it to where a male character defending himself against a historical enemy is condemned for the entire rest of the story after that while a female character that committed genocide gets to shrug it off and say she doesn't regret it because that's an empowering girlboss moment for her

[Mecheon]

Are "High Elf" players actually pissing themselves over... a random mount being used for a race that barely has any relevance?
This is just getting pathetic at this point.

Its not HElf fans but just general lore people because seeing "Random Ass Shadowlands Mount" out and about in the world as opposed to the various mounts that make sense doesn't really fit the lore.

HElf fans are just happy there's HElves there that have some storyline to them with all the ghosts. Just give them a pre-existing hippogryph or the blue shade of the new dragonhawks like the HElves have used previously

Nothing will ever shut these people up except turning the game's lore actually upside down to appease them.
I hope the devs ignore them.

You. Do know the complaint is about the random Shadowlands mount showing up in the face of lore, right?

So as presented it is turning the game's lore upside down to have a bunch of Veilwings showing up with no explanation. Y'know. The Ardenweald dragons who shouldn't be in Azeroth?

You just want the lore ignored and a random Shadowlands creature out and about instead?

[Limayria]

Putting aside that much of his character development was thrown out of the window in order to hit him with the villain bat over and over again, he was simply written to be an entertaining villain in a make believe setting. During an era when both the development team and much of the community where less obnoxious about making their personal opinions on heavy topics widely known.

Garrosh has also been dead and buried for a decent amount of time within the timeline of the story, whereas certain other characters who inflicted atrocities of their own are still around in some fashion.

I will not claim to speak for anyone but myself, but personally I'm not at all interested in the writers trying to 'make a point' using Garrosh when they regularly excuse characters such as Wrathion, Vereesa and Sylvanas for the atrocities that they committed. In the case of Sylvanas, especially, her list of crimes is far beyond what Garrosh is responsible for - to the point where even Garrosh himself displayed disgust towards the Banshee Queen.

There's a fairly jarring double standard at play and so I'm not hugely keen on the writing getting preachy with that in mind. I want consistency, not pandering.

Garrosh has literally always been a fascist that's his whole fucking point as a character, disillusioned nepo baby falls upward into fascism to protect himself from his feelings of insecurity. It just felt less political to you at the time because you hadn't had 10 years of the gamergateifaction of everything video game adjacent rotting your brain yet.

This is the same dumb ass shit as people acting like Star wars suddenly got political.

[Cheezits]

Beaten to it but I don't think the stir over the Garrosh quest has much to do with politics either. The character just has a lot of appeal right now because he was so unapologetically himself compared to now where every single character is being rewritten to become the same identical passive character. You can't imagine Garrosh being part of the silent virtuous peacenik crowd that's taken over WoW and that appeals to people that aren't happy with the current tone of the writing.

Furthermore his atrocities have become null and void after Sylvanas. Whenever you eventually do this quest it is impossible to not be reminded that one of the most heinous villains in the history of the series got off with a slap on the wrist and is greeted cordially by the main character of Midnight who meanwhile balks at every little unanswered injustice he sees elsewhere in the story. Blizzard had a sexism problem back in the day with how they treated their female characters but all they've done is reverse it to where a male character defending himself against a historical enemy is condemned for the entire rest of the story after that while a female character that committed genocide gets to shrug it off and say she doesn't regret it because that's an empowering girlboss moment for her

Sylvanas's killing everyone indiscriminately to serve what she thought was (and probably was right about) a more noble purpose than anything in reality is a more noble goal than imprisoning and killing 90% of the Horde because it's not Orcs. Hate it or love it, Cata-MOP Garrosh was turned into a racist fascist. As badass as he was, and a cool character at that, it is 100% in character for most, if not all, surviving WoW characters to hate his guts.

Sylvanas killed everyone because she was spoiled that the universe is mechanical/evil. Garrosh did most of everything he did because he was stupid.

[GeometryWizard]

Sylvanas's killing everyone indiscriminately to serve what she thought was (and probably was right about) a more noble purpose than anything in reality is a more noble goal than imprisoning and killing 90% of the Horde because it's not Orcs. Hate it or love it, Cata-MOP Garrosh was turned into a racist fascist. As badass as he was, and a cool character at that, it is 100% in character for most, if not all, surviving WoW characters to hate his guts.

Sylvanas killed everyone because she was spoiled that the universe is mechanical/evil. Garrosh did most of everything he did because he was stupid.

I can't buy the noble goal thing when Arthas thought culling Stratholme was the noblest thing he could do in the moment and that is portrayed as the point of no return for him. "I will never serve" established Sylvanas as the biggest idiot in the entire franchise

Either way you are just pointing out the double standard. We're expected to hate Garrosh to the point of breaking lore to time travel to a wartorn Draenor that's also supposed to have been broken so we can defile his grave but Sylvanas is treated like all she did was send mean tweets to someone. The assumption is you're a giant Sylvanas and Windrunner fangirl and they don't think of any other perspectives as being valid

If they suddenly brought Garrosh back and act like he did nothing wrong and you're supposed to treat him like a friend it'd be stupid too and I'd be complaining about it