Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Vakir]

speak for yourself. we need full on faction agnosticism for the game.

Not talking about playability as opt-in adventurers or other non-faction abiding decisions.

I mean the total removal of racial uniqueness by having Lordaeron humans walking around Tim Burton zombie land.

[Enrif]

Not talking about playability as opt-in adventurers or other non-faction abiding decisions.

I mean the total removal of racial uniqueness by having Lordaeron humans walking around Tim Burton zombie land.

okay, these are different things.

and as mentioned previously, the forsaken need something where they are heading into their future. Be it reconciling with living humans, becoming a cult of the damned organization that promotes undead, or what else

[GeometryWizard]

Bringing up factions again reminds me of people talking about how much more content we could have if they didn't have to split up content by faction and look at where we're at now

Midnight has less quests than ever with the story being incredibly short
Most of the dungeons and now delves are almost entirely reusing the open world
Less and less cutscenes with most of them just being characters talking without a lot of animation
Majority of TWW minor patch content is just reused or hastily repurposed content from older expacs

They got rid of faction questing after Bfa and that effort and budget wasn't invested back into the game they're just making less content so they can ship it out faster. Housing is the only exception to the decline in effort and that was given to a separate team that had 2 entire expacs to work on it. The fact they are rushing the addon and combat changes so hard makes me believe they know Midnight doesn't have much going for it but housing and are scrambling to do something transformational for the core game but just like the rest of their content it's coming out fast rather than good

[Vakir]

okay, these are different things.

and as mentioned previously, the forsaken need something where they are heading into their future. Be it reconciling with living humans, becoming a cult of the damned organization that promotes undead, or what else

Yes, and the general response to one of those options is negative because it makes things too homogenized.

Total faction agnosticism would mean every race being like the Earthen or Haranir. But the Undead especially would feel wrong mingling with the living and it undermines the overall sense of loss and/or outcast nature of the race.

The Cult of the Damned thing just picks things up from Edge of Night before they ruined it but without the Val'kyr reliance.

Are you all caught up now?

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Bringing up factions again reminds me of people talking about how much more content we could have if they didn't have to split up content by faction and look at where we're at now

Yeah, I am one of those people that advocated for some of the storylines being more neutral or working harder so things don't feel so split up that it undermines feeling a full experience (the Worgen have it rough going into Darkshore in Cata while the Forsaken have two of the best zones in the revamp back to back is the easiest example I think of). To some extent I still do and don't really trust them to tell a war story competently.

I can't really think of any narrative in WoW that felt unilaterally satisfying for faction die-hards, but for balancing faction conflict and larger threat neutral content, Stormheim remains the best.

But corporate greed being what it is, none of that extra dev time seemingly went anywhere. Better release cadence and more cosmetics (Trading Post) aside.

[Cheezits]

Bringing up factions again reminds me of people talking about how much more content we could have if they didn't have to split up content by faction and look at where we're at now

While I think the expansion would've been better with Azuremyst and a Draenei capital as well, the complaints to the story wouldn't change, because there would just be an Arator expy on the Alliance side people whine about.

Expansions are smaller but faster. They aren't better or worse despite being smaller, IMO, as there have been big and shitty expansions.

[milkmustache]

Yeah, I am one of those people that advocated for some of the storylines being more neutral or working harder so things don't feel so split up that it undermines feeling a full experience (the Worgen have it rough going into Darkshore in Cata while the Forsaken have two of the best zones in the revamp back to back is the easiest example I think of). To some extent I still do and don't really trust them to tell a war story competently.

I can't really think of any narrative in WoW that felt unilaterally satisfying for faction die-hards, but for balancing faction conflict and larger threat neutral content, Stormheim remains the best.

But corporate greed being what it is, none of that extra dev time seemingly went anywhere. Better release cadence and more cosmetics (Trading Post) aside.

Good call with Stormheim, it really is such a well balanced flow. That sort of conflict feels like the best route. It's not all out Horde vs Alliance, but it's two groups who have frequently skirmished. I suppose a modern day version of it would be a zone where the Mag'har take the lead for the Horde, and the Stromgarde for the Alliance, and we see some friction there.

A cold war with standoffs here and there is truly the best route for the storytelling. Sure, we're all denizens of Azeroth looking to protect our home from a larger outer world thread, but these factions should be pushing their spheres of influence as much as they possibly can. Colonize a bit, build a fort here or there. We don't have to always be the envoys of peace and harmony.

EDIT:

Looks like a new China-only mount, this time I believe it's a rostrum customizable mount? Our Panthera was actually just a Panther. Here's the Wowhead post confirming it is China only from their Titan Reforged servers.

[Cheezits]

Is that a Goblin and Blackfuse/Iron Horde themed panther??? That's a dream mount right there, good god.

I'm getting vibes that rhyme with Stinker, by the way.

I'm sure we'll be getting it eventually. Also some more funny mistranslations, including "Steel Horde" and "Gazlowe's Palace".

[Vakir]

We don't have to always be the envoys of peace and harmony.

It's kind of the idea of balancing the resolution of something being more satisfying after an initial struggle. Or even "how can I miss you if you don't leave?"

If there's no period of conflict that precedes cooperation, that cooperation doesn't feel meaningful. It's business as usual.

On the flip side, in a full blown war, there's a lack of tension because the worst possible thing that could happen politically already has. And if we're being real, a lot of very stretched contrivances are required to stop either side from being able to blow up the planet in 3 seconds at this point.

Needs a good combination of tension and release.

[Cheezits]

Also a Worldbreaker vendor mount (the whelps). Which I'm sure we WON'T get because it's literally the same mount.

[Gurahk]

An Iron Horde mount that's exclusive to Chinese servers (through a gacha system no less), talk about a monkey's paw.

[milkmustache]

It's kind of the idea of balancing the resolution of something being more satisfying after an initial struggle. Or even "how can I miss you if you don't leave?"

If there's no period of conflict that precedes cooperation, that cooperation doesn't feel meaningful. It's business as usual.

On the flip side, in a full blown war, there's a lack of tension because the worst possible thing that could happen politically already has. And if we're being real, a lot of very stretched contrivances are required to stop either side from being able to blow up the planet in 3 seconds at this point.

Needs a good combination of tension and release.

It's why MoP played it best, IMO. Paint that conteninent red.

It had a ton of cheesy moments (leftover Cata era pop culture writing), but there was an earnest story being told about war. In the end Garrosh overplayed his hand and led us into a larger scale conflict where even though he as the labeled agitator was now aligned with a third faction, the war still raged on.

I think maybe Blizzard got to a point where they were so concerned about making cross-faction systems work that they forgot to make it work in the story as well.

[Reive]

more effort from netease than from blizzard

the best blizzard could do for the anniversary was giving players a fugly questing set

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Bringing up factions again reminds me of people talking about how much more content we could have if they didn't have to split up content by faction and look at where we're at now

Midnight has less quests than ever with the story being incredibly short
Most of the dungeons and now delves are almost entirely reusing the open world
Less and less cutscenes with most of them just being characters talking without a lot of animation
Majority of TWW minor patch content is just reused or hastily repurposed content from older expacs

They got rid of faction questing after Bfa and that effort and budget wasn't invested back into the game they're just making less content so they can ship it out faster. Housing is the only exception to the decline in effort and that was given to a separate team that had 2 entire expacs to work on it. The fact they are rushing the addon and combat changes so hard makes me believe they know Midnight doesn't have much going for it but housing and are scrambling to do something transformational for the core game but just like the rest of their content it's coming out fast rather than good

Things off the top of my head

Delves
Follower dungeons
Reworked old dungeon for mythic + each season
Anniversary rework with remade sets and a raid
Dragon flight
Profession rework
Abunch of dumb world events
Plunderstorm
Undermine car
Prey

We may or may not be getting less quest but it’s not like the budget for said things has just disappeared it’s been spread to other parts of the game as well as having dev work be more spread out to Lower gap between release to cut out the year long gap we used to have between expansions.

[Cheezits]

An Iron Horde mount that's exclusive to Chinese servers (through a gacha system no less), talk about a monkey's paw.

I'm wondering where the Iron Horde even got Sabers from. Tigers from Stranglethorn would make more sense, but that involves updating tigers which they won't do.

[milkmustache]

I'm wondering where the Iron Horde even got Sabers from. Tigers from Stranglethorn would make more sense, but that involves updating tigers which they won't do.

Eh, rule of cool IMO.

[Lady Atia]

Can they ... please .... stop .... with the .... china only .... bullshit oO???

[Raetary]

So, finally got around to playing the beta.
Did the intro, did the Eversong quests, reached Harandar.

The zones are gorgeous and i am perfectly satisfied with how Eversong turned out.
But i ended up agreeing with the few people that criticized how spacious Silvermoon it, particularly Murder Row is just weirdly empty.
Though i take more of an issue with the general bulkiness of Elven buildings, it works at the scale they are working on for the most part, but when you get closer its just a bit much.
Oh, and i would've preferred if they kept more of the park/garden.
The city is very, very white, and could've kept more of the greenery.

As for story, Arator is really annoying.
Turalyons antagonism feels really forced it.
I still love Bob though.
And i really like Liraths demeanor and voice in the dungeon.

As for (priest) gameplay...
Boy, the priest class talents are an absolute mess.
I issued feedback on like half the tree, the entire right half is just all over the place with underwhelming stat buffs that should not be that early, or exist at all, with basic spells being so deep down.
It feels like i have to pick between static healing/damage increases and very milquetoast utility that require 3-5 times as many talent points.
I also don't understand why they felt the need to remove Shadow Word: Pain for Holy/Shadow, the lack of a proper tagging tool is really noticeable.

Unopular opinion apparently, but i don't like the Shadow tentacle either.
I know people hated the reticle, but i would've preferred if they used the directional one like Evokers have instead.
Idk how many times i had to use both my stacks to dot the bunch of mobs (that i ran into to quickly aggro them because there is no SW:P to do it from a safe distance...) because some of them ended up behind the tentacle animation.

There are some nice changes though.
I do like that talent that merges Sanctify into Serenity, Benediction is nice as spell upgrades go.
Moving Restitution next to Guardian Angel is lovely.

[Ersula]

Can they ... please .... stop .... with the .... china only .... bullshit oO???

WoW currently has more subscribers in China than they do in North America, so no.

[Lady Atia]

I'm wondering where the Iron Horde even got Sabers from. Tigers from Stranglethorn would make more sense, but that involves updating tigers which they won't do.

There were tigers on Draenor.

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WoW currently has more subscribers in China than they do in North America, so no.

I mean, even if that would be the case .... there is 0 reason to give region exclusive stuff again outside of netease contract bullshitting.

[Pheraz]

... As for story, Arator is really annoying.

Please tell me he is not another generic weak teenage man with too many emotions sterotype like Anduin or the blue drake?