Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Vakir]

Even Shadowland WoW is more interesting and better than those.

If you say so, dude. I have no idea what frame of reference you have with regard to taste or preferences. I'm also gonna presume someone who didn't like things that early didn't engage with anything a solid 80 hours later.

But I think it's a universal sentiment WoW's story and writing, without comparison to anything else or any other game, definitely could do with some catching up to its quality of core gameplay.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Haven’t seen it posted so here’s some relevant answers from Goldens AMA related to recent topics.

Spoiler: 

How involved are you in penning the plot for these WoW novels? Does Blizzard come to you and ask you to write a story that incorporates certain set-in-stone lore moments, or do you have pretty free rein over things?

Other than writing WoW’s novels, are you involved with the game as a player?

It varies! Sometimes they just have an idea and we get to brainstorm together, but that was mostly for the earlier books. It's been different in recent years as Blizzard got so much bigger. Now what happens is, the game team has an idea for what they want to see in the novel. They work up an outline, which is looked over by the editors over at Blizzard and the appropriate members of the game team, and Lore, then it's handed off to me. We go back and forth and I write various drafts of the novel, all of which are gone over, until Blizzard signs off on the outline. Then the same process repeats with the various drafts of the book. All media tie-ins are challenging, in that you are playing in someone else's sandbox, not your own world. That's part of the challenge, though! Nothing goes in the books has hasn't either come directly from Blizzard or is something I have put in that they have all approved. I always remember they are not publishing my story, I'm being hired to write theirs. So...not a lot of free rein, but a lot of beautiful scenery in which to gallop. As for playing...YES, I never played video games until WoW at ALL but fell in love with the world. I played so much that I had my agent reach back out to Blizzard, because I had to justify all the time I was spending in Azeroth lol!

Did the way you depict characters in your stories sometimes influence the way they are presented ingame?
(Specific example being the Desolate Council leading to more content of individual Forsaken with focus on their lives before death.)

Of course all the characters and events of the book, whether it's something that originally came from the game team or is something I created, are there for the team to use as they wish. It happened a lot in the earlier years (a lot of Draenor comes from Rise of the Horde, for instance) but less so as the world itself became more defined and complex. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Sometimes things get retconned. Writers need to understand that this is how media tie-ins work. Having said that, it's always a delight when the game team wants to take a character further, and it was quite meaningful that the team opted to take on the idea, and the title, of the Desolate Council in game at the end.

How has it been to write for a character like Arator which has not been explored much at all previously? Has it been fun, challenging, made you feel more creative etc?

It's exciting and quite rare in media-tie ins to have an opportunity like this. In one way he's already well known, but we we don't yet KNOW him. The team briefed me on some of the events of Midnight (sorry no spoilers!) so I could lay the groundwork in my head as I wrote, and I collaborated with the team as we co-created the character as the outlines and the book drafts progressed. I grew very fond of him and I can't wait for readers to get to know him better.

Are there any lore bits you've added to books that you'd like to see more of in game? Like I loved the Grizzek and Sapphy storyline in Before the Storm and was so happy to see them in BFA. I know I wish they were in the game more since then.

Ahhhhh that was so amazing! Everyone wanted to know what had happened to them You can thank a WoW team member who wanted to write about them for a quest for their surviving that blast. It's lovely when the team does this, a very warm, cozy feeling, but it's always their choice.

Love your work, Christie!

How closely do you work with Chris Metzen? Is it an everyday sort of thing or does he and Blizzare CDev give you an outline, let you write the book, and then they have final edit?

Also, do you still play on role-play servers? Excited for housing and Midnight?

I touch on the process elsewhere, but to recap, in earlier years it was much more face to face. I'd come out and Chris and others and I would jam out an outline, and I would leave raring to get to work Blizzard has grown so much that now there are many more people who need to have input into the projects, and Chris is a very busy man! In my time as an employee I only had one meeting with him, but I do know he still reads and signs off on the projects TL;DR Blizzard makes all the decisions, which include deciding about my decisions. Still a lot of fun and rewarding work, in a world and with characters I will always love.

What was your inspiration for Faerin Lothar? Why does she exist?

Thanks!

So many people still think I was on the WoW team when I was at Blizzard. I was not. I was in Story and Franchise Development, so, ironically, everything I worked with was OUTSIDE of the game writing. So as with almost every character in WoW, Faerin was created by the WoW team. I did enjoy getting to write her, however briefly, in one of the in-game cinematics.

Very notable one, light undead Calia is officially not a product of Golden.

Do you feel Calia Menethil was a good fit for the Forsaken or would you change her in hindsight? Was she created to replace Sylvanas?

As originally written, Calia was to be nothing more than Arthas's sister who felt responsible for "fixing" her brother's atrocities. She was to learn a harsh lesson, either dying on the battle field or having to live with her choices. The idea to have her become a Light-raised Forsaken was introduced later by the game team.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...so_excited_to/

[Vakir]

"Learning a harsh lesson" sounds like an actual conflict for her, so that's disappointing considering the glowing tumor we got instead.

[Zardas]

Forsaken and sylvannas fans like sylvannas mainly because she's a sexy goth edgy elf, she can return a bit less evil and they wouldn't care, as they didn't when she became full evil in bfa.

As a undead player, I confirm that I wouldn't mind if she returned evil. I'm not playing a undead to be a good guy.

This!

WoW is way better than FFXIV in everything. The characters and style of FFXIV are also horrible.

There's a huge gap from WoW being 1st to the 2nd best MMORPG that WoW alone is greater than the other MMORPGs combined. Only thing that's going to take the crown away is a WoW 2 that won't happen or perhaps a nice big well done Starcraft MMORPG and that's only a big maybe since Starcraft ain't as big as what it used to be. Final Fantasy, Fallout, Star Wars, and Elder Scrolls are huge popular franchises and they still failed to get close to WoW's power in the MMORPG department.

Azeroth is easily the most interesting and long lasting world out of all these franchises.

Just out of curiosity, what mmorpgs have you played ?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

"Learning a harsh lesson" sounds like an actual conflict for her, so that's disappointing considering the glowing tumor we got instead.

Ya I assume the rewriting for BTS must have been pretty massive for the change in plans and we would have gotten a much harsher human/undead meeting leading better into BFA.

[JohnnyCasual]

Idk if that includes sizes though. Nelf and Belf exteriors, yes, but that's it.

We will find out later today. Are you excited yet?

[Super Dickmann]

Ya I assume the rewriting for BTS must have been pretty massive for the change in plans and we would have gotten a much harsher human/undead meeting leading better into BFA.

If true and Calia was meant to just die that would also gel much better with the original blurbs of BTS, which were far more even-handed in the bio re: Sylvanas and Anduin’s moral framing relative to the final blurb and especially what we got.

[Joshuaj]

This!

WoW is way better than FFXIV in everything. The characters and style of FFXIV are also horrible.

There's a huge gap from WoW being 1st to the 2nd best MMORPG that WoW alone is greater than the other MMORPGs combined. Only thing that's going to take the crown away is a WoW 2 that won't happen or perhaps a nice big well done Starcraft MMORPG and that's only a big maybe since Starcraft ain't as big as what it used to be. Final Fantasy, Fallout, Star Wars, and Elder Scrolls are huge popular franchises and they still failed to get close to WoW's power in the MMORPG department.

Azeroth is easily the most interesting and long lasting world out of all these franchises.

Calm down now. I don't think either deserve best ongoing game atm. NMS for the win

- - - Updated - - -

We will find out later today. Are you excited yet?

Lmao I still love your name

[Avikur]

If M+ testing starts in a few hours on the beta, I assume we'll get a new build with lvl 90 templates? Surely there aren't enough people that have levelled to 90 to do testing?

[Vakir]

Damn, I have a whole fucking omelette on my face with regards to Calia, huh?

I don't like plenty of her prose or the performative aspects of the whole "non-toxic masculinity" schtick but that really sucks for Golden. But whatever, I guess they all get paid in the end.

[Super Dickmann]

Damn, I have a whole fucking omelette on my face with regards to Calia, huh?

I don't like plenty of her prose or the performative aspects of the whole "non-toxic masculinity" schtick but that really sucks for Golden. But whatever, I guess they all get paid in the end.

She had previously said the role existed in Blizzard’s outline but she suggested it go to Calia. Not contradictory per se, as the role would be shit regardless who got it mind, but it, like Sylvanas’s book and the Shattering version of Garrosh are the main shows that she’s ultimately a commissioned writer and she’s given the assignment to not kill a race/character she can do a good job of it. BTS is still the worst book in the franchise, mind.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

If true and Calia was meant to just die that would also gel much better with the original blurbs of BTS, which were far more even-handed in the bio re: Sylvanas and Anduin’s moral framing relative to the final blurb and especially what we got.

Knowing she wasn’t a Golden throw away like say the goblin and gnome that the wow team picked up and instead the team it self changed the novels plans to set her up really raises the question of who was actually pushing her and why she’s flip flopped in being the sylvanas replacement.

My best wild guess would be that Metzen was around for the first idea draft where she was going to die, Alex changed it cause he didn’t like sylvanas, then Steve left to pick up the pieces reintroduces the council idea as he didn’t want to replace sylvanas.

[Vakir]

Ah, to get an extended expose on the writing machinations in the background instead of the bullshit about harassment and breast milk nobody wanted to happen or hear about...

[Cheezits]

Calia hasn't done anything and will never do anything so those plans got binned bigtime.

[Vakir]

If M+ testing starts in a few hours on the beta, I assume we'll get a new build with lvl 90 templates? Surely there aren't enough people that have levelled to 90 to do testing?

It's possible they'll do a "stat aura" for characters to soft scale them. Right now because of the cap on keys and the like it's hard to really get much going in the way of gear otherwise. I'm like 240.

- - - Updated - - -

Calia hasn't done anything and will never do anything so those plans got binned bigtime.

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of that was the result of the poor reception.

Like whatever idiot wrote that blurb about the Forsaken defending the living for their primary identity description.

[Cheezits]

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of that was the result of the poor reception.

Like whatever idiot wrote that blurb about the Forsaken defending the living for their primary identity description.

Honestly, no, considering how much they continue to use Shadowlands to the point they will probably make it a big factor of TLT.

I am willing to eat my hat however if they tie her into the First Flame/Sacred Flame storyline using Lordaeron, as she shockingly would be an interesting fit given her nature and her beating back the Lightblinded/Arathi/Red Dawn could offer a good redemption story for her.

[Hitei]

Knowing she wasn’t a Golden throw away like say the goblin and gnome that the wow team picked up and instead the team it self changed the novels plans to set her up really raises the question of who was actually pushing her and why she’s flip flopped in being the sylvanas replacement.

My best wild guess would be that Metzen was around for the first idea draft where she was going to die, Alex changed it cause he didn’t like sylvanas, then Steve left to pick up the pieces reintroduces the council idea as he didn’t want to replace sylvanas.

I don't know why you guys think everything is some conspiratorial plot. There's almost certainly not some specific person "pushing her". Someone in some meeting probably said "it's a bit of waste to just kill off the last Menethil like that immediately after properly introducing her, right?" and then the team bounced ideas off each other and decided her being turned undead would be "neat", and she was involved in the priest class hall so they used the Light to raise her instead of standard necromancy that would have required some contrived circumstance for Sylvanas who absolutely hated the lingering possibility of claim to the throne (and her being a Menethil) to have raised her since that is who controlled standard necromancy.

And then once raised, the obvious direction, since her entire thing in the book was her ties to the Forsaken as people of Lordaeron that were still sort of her regret and the victims of her family, was that she get involved with the Forsaken, now being in a state that allowed her to understand at least in part the idea of being inhuman and undead.

Then when the decision to depose Sylvanas started and they were looking for a second iteration of the Desolate Council, their obvious go-to choices were Voss (who by the way is a whole other, honestly more narratively problematic, barrel of monkeys), the current heads of the various military groups (Faranell for the RAP, Belmont for the Deathstalkers, Velonara for the Dark Rangers) and Calia, who, despite people's constant bitching, is not actually all that unreasonable a choice since she was literally a well-known figure of the royal family and someone who some of the Forsaken, as people of Lordaeron, see as a leader figure, and like... Faol.

[Vakir]

Honestly, no, considering how much they continue to use Shadowlands to the point they will probably make it a big factor of TLT.

Eh, separate issues and examples. SL was an entire expansion and part of the cosmology that can have a lot of their stuff tweaked based on feedback.

Meanwhile, one character is very easy to discard, especially when most of their current iteration can only really be understood via tie-in books.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Going through blood ties at the moment, there’s a mention of Illidan destroying Xera and Tyrulion attacking him, it’s mentioned to be Righteous adrenaline fueled wrath at the thought that Illidan had just doomed there cause.

So much better then the light blinded nonsense there playing with in the beta and leaves the full weight on his own feelings.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't know why you guys think everything is some conspiratorial plot. There's almost certainly not some specific person "pushing her". Someone in some meeting probably said "it's a bit of waste to just kill off the last Menethil like that immediately after properly introducing her, right?"

Your describing some one pushing her….

[Lady Atia]

Going through blood ties at the moment, there’s a mention of Illidan destroying Xera and Tyrulion attacking him, it’s mentioned to be Righteous adrenaline fueled wrath at the thought that Illidan had just doomed there cause.

So much better then the light blinded nonsense there playing with in the beta and leaves the full weight on his own feelings.

- - - Updated - - -



Your describing some one pushing her….

Is the book out yet oO?