Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Merryck]

I heard a theory Azeroth's nightmares spawned the Old Gods from the Rift of Aln, and they didn't come hurtling from outer space like Chronicles stated. Would be an interesting way for new Old Gods to be created or to return the dead ones back to life. I've said it before, but the Old God aesthetic is way more interesting than this cosmic void slop.

[Joshuaj]

I heard a theory Azeroth's nightmares spawned the Old Gods from the Rift of Aln, and they didn't come hurtling from outer space like Chronicles stated. Would be an interesting way for new Old Gods to be created or to return the dead ones back to life. I've said it before, but the Old God aesthetic is way more interesting than this cosmic void slop.

I kinda feel like it might be a mix of both. Maybe Life and Void teamed up to make the Old Gods, maybe the Old Gods were once pure Void but turned to flesh VIA Azeroth? Idk. But they do seem to be Void in nature. If nothing else, it is possible the Old Gods were likely affected by Azeroth in some form, as they appear to be more free spirited than most Void creatures.

[milkmustache]

I kinda feel like it might be a mix of both. Maybe Life and Void teamed up to make the Old Gods, maybe the Old Gods were once pure Void but turned to flesh VIA Azeroth? Idk. But they do seem to be Void in nature. If nothing else, it is possible the Old Gods were likely affected by Azeroth in some form, as they appear to be more free spirited than most Void creatures.

At the very least it would be cool to see the reason the Old Gods made their own claim against the Void was due to Azeroth's free will nature. Or has that already been confirmed? I can't remember if this is an original thought or not lol

[Joshuaj]

At the very least it would be cool to see the reason the Old Gods made their own claim against the Void was due to Azeroth's free will nature. Or has that already been confirmed? I can't remember if this is an original thought or not lol

The free will stuff was seemingly only ever confirmed with the Earthen, which is why folks speculate it in regards to the Old Gods. Only helps that Danuser confirmed the Old Gods had their own agendas compared to the Void Lords, which may or may not be due to the nature of the Void as a whole.

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I have a different theory regarding Azeroth and the Worldsouls...

What if we're all wrong, and the worldsouls are remnants of a Progenitor known as "Element"? Afterall, the Elemental Ring had to come from somewhere, and the building blocks of all form and physicality stems from the elements. Wouldn't be shocked if there were 7 Progenitors that took part in the creation of the Pattern, and one of them split into multiple things within the Beyond.

Would also work with Iridikron and his plotline, why Azeroth seemingly absorbed all its spirit, why the Worldsouls are so mighty + why they're located within the Dark Beyond + why they can be shaped into either Titans or whatnot, etc.

Could also maybe work with the Sepulcher stuff as well maybe? Afterall, one can't truly remake the cosmos without giving it form

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As for what Zovaal and N'Zoth feared? Idfk. Maybe there are actually 8 Progenitors. 6 known ones, a 7th that seeks to claim what the 6 hold fast, and a secret 8th nobody truly knows about, yet exists within the pattern in some way?

[Ersula]

The Forsaken story is carving out a place when life hates you and advocating for undead. Voss' story is a foil. You, the rotbrains and Voss are all raised together. YOU are the Forsaken proxy and Voss and the Rotbrains are two groups who, in contrast, reject the Forsaken path and ideals.

48 hours after being raised from the dead & immediately after killing your dad: I hate undeath! I hate the crusade! I hate necromancy!

A few years later: I have mellowed out & realized a person can't just live in complete isolation forever. Turns out I yearn for the companionship of people in a similar situation as myself.

The rotbrains are called rotbrains because they're literally insane, not a cohesive faction.

[LarryWithTheWeatherReport]

I heard a theory Azeroth's nightmares spawned the Old Gods from the Rift of Aln, and they didn't come hurtling from outer space like Chronicles stated. Would be an interesting way for new Old Gods to be created or to return the dead ones back to life. I've said it before, but the Old God aesthetic is way more interesting than this cosmic void slop.

Amen on that!

They should be way beyond the pure void as they were cooler and more interesting.

I do think the Last Titan is going to reveal some pretty big stuff like the reason why the Pantheon Titan are so far above the others because of them hoarding all the world souls for themselves. And the old gods being above the void lords. Cause Y’Sjaaji in his prime easily easily defeat every expansions final boss. And I bet they’ll explore his corpse resurrecting after being pulled out of Aman’Thul.

Chronicles 6 could easily retcon a lot of stuff and add a bunch of new cool things.

I want a super old god to be introduced and one that might be able to take the crown away from Sargeras as the strongest of all times.

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Maybe there are actually 8 Progenitors. 6 known ones, a 7th that seeks to claim what the 6 hold fast, and a secret 8th nobody truly knows about, yet exists within the pattern in some way?

I think there’s probably 9

7th is free will

8th is transcendent aka beings with multiple forces and I mean true bonding with multiple forces so something like Sargeras with arcane and Fel and hopefully Elune too with Life and Light.

9th would be the Pinwheel that keeps everything running. The forces are the energy and the Pinwheel is the system that keeps them all in check and the 6 forces answers to Pinwheel who keeps the Pinwheel running.

7th and 8th are the two force that don’t answer to the pinwheel since it’s not its creations.

Everything is created by the entity called Pinwheel besides free will and transcendentals so our characters, old gods, and Sargeras will be enemies against Pinwheel.

[Hitei]

48 hours after being raised from the dead & immediately after killing your dad: I hate undeath! I hate the crusade! I hate necromancy!

A few years later: I have mellowed out & realized a person can't just live in complete isolation forever. Turns out I yearn for the companionship of people in a similar situation as myself.

The rotbrains are called rotbrains because they're literally insane, not a cohesive faction.

No.

48 hours after being raised from the dead: I hate the Scarlet Crusade and what they did to me.

A year after: I hate necromancy. Undeath is a torment that should not be inflicted on people, undead should be returned to the grave.

Two years after: I hate necromancy. Undeath is a torment that should not be inflicted on people, undead should be returned to the grave. I am even getting specialized weapons for it.

Three years after: I hate necromancy. Undeath is a torment that should not be inflicted on people, undead should be returned to the grave. I am a thorough expert in hunting undead and stopping necromancy.

Four years after: Hey, sure! Let me help you raise this innocent guy from the dead so we can exploit him against his own people :^) By the way I am totally fine working for Sylvanas, who has raised and continues to raise hundreds of people as undead and whose stated current plan is to reach Stormwind and murder and raise the entire kingdom in undeath. I just want to hang out and see what happens, y'know? Maybe pat all the new undead on the back so they feel better about this thing I swore to stop from happening and have thought is torture for years.

[KOREAN DAVE]

I heard a theory Azeroth's nightmares spawned the Old Gods from the Rift of Aln, and they didn't come hurtling from outer space like Chronicles stated. Would be an interesting way for new Old Gods to be created or to return the dead ones back to life. I've said it before, but the Old God aesthetic is way more interesting than this cosmic void slop.

I like the concept of cosmic void as it’s just the power of space and black holes and stuff. Redefining void elves with cosmic void is the right move and the aesthetics of cosmic void are great.

BUT this shouldn’t come at the expense of the old “”Lovecraftian”” void that we’ve come to know and love. Doing weird schizo call of Cthulhu investigations into the old gods was always a highlight of their respective expansions for me.

Cosmic void supplanting the real sort of cosmic horror of the old gods is a huge mistake imo.


** EDIT **

I just finished Val’Sharah in Lemix and the sort of dread that zone cultivated is so good. I think it did a lot of showing instead of telling about how serious the threat is, Archdruids and Ancients getting corrupted so easily really builds up Xavius and the nightmare as a credible threat, even if the whole Malfurion chase was a bit cringe. I wish they would do more zones with this kind of vibe.

[Enrif]

even if the whole Malfurion chase was a bit cringe. I wish they would do more zones with this kind of vibe.

please remember that this "Malfurion" isn't actually Malfurion, but Xavius mocking Tyrande

[KOREAN DAVE]

please remember that this "Malfurion" isn't actually Malfurion, but Xavius mocking Tyrande

I get that, it just didn’t really land for me.

[Enrif]

I get that, it just didn’t really land for me.

at least you get that. too many people assume that is the actual Malfurion. Should have probably been called "Mockery of Malfurion" to drive that better home.

[Nymrohd]

at least you get that. too many people assume that is the actual Malfurion. Should have probably been called "Mockery of Malfurion" to drive that better home.

Tyrande makes it clear at multiple points. People just don't pay any attention.

[Pyrophax]

So for now - max level campaign is about Vangard, who are fully Alliance? How classic of nu-blizz.

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At the very least it would be cool to see the reason the Old Gods made their own claim against the Void was due to Azeroth's free will nature. Or has that already been confirmed? I can't remember if this is an original thought or not lol

They can be Void Entities, but transformed to flash meat mountains by Azeroth power. Curse of Flesh will be not Yogg work, but Azeroth influence.
That can explain how other races gain flesh. Like dragons, who are elementals with flesh. Or Stone Giants, or trolls and taurens.

Void creatures just can't get enough, so they grow too much to be that ugly creatures, that align with Void "consumerism" feature.

[Nymrohd]

So for now - max level campaign is about Vangard, who are fully Alliance? How classic of nu-blizz.

You know there are blood elves all around the Vanguard right?

[Count Zero]

I wonder if we'll explore exactly what the Titans did to create G'huun. Might be part of clarifying what exactly the delineation between Void and Old Gods is.

[Ersula]

I wonder if we'll explore exactly what the Titans did to create G'huun. Might be part of clarifying what exactly the delineation between Void and Old Gods is.

They don't say but in retrospect it might be as simple as them injecting a leech with the Black Blood. That seems to be the takeaway even if that storyline was abandoned (or just moved to TLT: ) The Old Gods are dead but they can be resurrected through another living thing imbibing the Black Blood.

No.

48 hours after being raised from the dead: I hate the Scarlet Crusade and what they did to me.

A year after: I hate necromancy. Undeath is a torment that should not be inflicted on people, undead should be returned to the grave.

Two years after: I hate necromancy. Undeath is a torment that should not be inflicted on people, undead should be returned to the grave. I am even getting specialized weapons for it.

Three years after: I hate necromancy. Undeath is a torment that should not be inflicted on people, undead should be returned to the grave. I am a thorough expert in hunting undead and stopping necromancy.

Four years after: Hey, sure! Let me help you raise this innocent guy from the dead so we can exploit him against his own people :^) By the way I am totally fine working for Sylvanas, who has raised and continues to raise hundreds of people as undead and whose stated current plan is to reach Stormwind and murder and raise the entire kingdom in undeath. I just want to hang out and see what happens, y'know? Maybe pat all the new undead on the back so they feel better about this thing I swore to stop from happening and have thought is torture for years.

You're extrapolating a lot that's not there. Behind the scenes the meta reason for this characterization is because she was intended to die in the revamped Scholomance dungeon but they decided she should stick around due to the lack of established Forsaken characters.

WoD, her characterization is limited to "I want to kill scourge necromancers."

And in Legion, she finds out the Demons are employing their own version of Abominations.... and explains she is against them because they are mindless undead, which is different from what Sylvanas was doing.

Then in BFA, they're not exploiting Thomas Zelling: He asked to be forsaken because he was dying of a terminal illness. She considers being Forsaken a good thing because it allowed her to realize how effed the Crusade & her prior mentality was.

[Cheezits]

There are both Blood Knights and Blood Elves that respect the Vanguard/Light above Quel'thalas. Namely, the latter is a zealous belf who is part of the Lightblinded fight with the (big) Arathi woman.

I'm going to guess it's Alleria's corruption that causes them to turn on Azeroth and take matters into their own hands: likely because they want her dead. Curious what Turalyon will do after his wife is corrupted and Lotrhaxion and three of his lieutenants die.

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Also, the Dreamrift boss (forget the name) is labeled as MalformedLoa in the files. So I'm going to guess the Haranir originally showed more of their Troll roots (heh) in the original version of Harandar, but they made them more Night Elf-like because of their being in the same expansion as an Amani zone and Amani patch.

And if they are more Elf, that means Blizz can focus on the actual troll tribes (Amani, Darkspear, Zandalari) in the Amani patch.

[Nightshade711]

With flying mounts being given from the start, it's pretty much pointless. Though hopefully one day, the devs will go back to the WoD-SL approach of no flying mounts. In the form of the Prey system would probably be ideal. And in that case mount equipment would be perfect.

They could expand upon the mount equipment for flying mounts.
The saddlechute is one of the more flying mount tailored mount equipments for example.

Perhaps an equipment item that gives something like the Drake treat as an ability when using dynamic flight could be cool.

[Vakir]

please remember that this "Malfurion" isn't actually Malfurion, but Xavius mocking Tyrande

He's already sanctimonious and insufferable so it didn't really matter what the actual origin was of the pleading. I still forever make the association.

Also, SO SAYS THE SHADOW OF XAVIUS ain't much better for a real line, oof.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Catching up on more beta stuff, Arator runs off to tell his mom mid void storm siege that his dad hit him to start a fight between them while there men are actively dying, like da fuck is wrong with you to think that’s the time or place for your family feud.

And Alleria’s respond just feels so forced, and is made worse Turalyon in by blood ties actively telling Arator not to act out without telling other paladins on a battle field which is a rule they have to avoid paladins hurting each other.