Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Cheezits]

Obviously I'm projecting ahead, I don't know what's going to happen, but I wouldn't be surprised if the World Soul Saga branding and hype actually hurt the overall perception of these stories.

It will, because only the Isle of Dorn, Harandar and TLT have anything to do with the Worldsoul. The only good thing about the saga is telling us ahead of time what the expansion themes will be, so we can deal with a less exciting theme in the interim if we don't like it (and Quel'thalas/Housing basically saved TWW, regardless of the quality of the expansion pre-K'aresh).

[Vakir]

That is true, the Quel'Thalas hype factor had a huge role to play.

[GeometryWizard]

While this particular plotpoint is stupid, Purple Legion would've been just as boring in a different way and we would've still been rolling our eyes. Voidstorm being kicked away after launch is more interesting than building up to Purple Argus over a year IMO (and having Purple Argus at launch, meaning patches can be a little more interesting).

Undermine was one of the best patches I've played since Mists and the Troll Patch has huge potential BECAUSE they don't fit the usual plot arc, even at the detriment of a three-patch-story.

Then why are they even trying to do this big epic story if it's a complete disaster and the only good stuff comes from the disconnected patches. That totally goes against this trilogy idea they've been trying to sell since it'd be more like classic where the patches are all disconnected and that can still work but the main story goes directly against it. It's so weird like they're playing to all their weaknesses on purpose and sabotaging their own story

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

Obviously I'm projecting ahead, I don't know what's going to happen, but I wouldn't be surprised if the World Soul Saga branding and hype actually hurt the overall perception of these stories.

Imagine if Cata, Mists, and WoD were built up and called the Warsong Saga because there's some connective tissue of that larger theme around Garrosh. People might be way more disappointed than they were without it.

Yeah, well. It was a matter of convenience to maximize gains. I don't think we see the World Soul Saga if they didn't feel pressured to do so and even then in retrospect they played way too scared considering where we are now financially that it feels like we could've just kept the singular expansion rollouts and had the story actually be a surprise buildup over time if they actually did have resources and investment.

[Cheezits]

Then why are they even trying to do this big epic story if it's a complete disaster and the only good stuff comes from the disconnected patches. That totally goes against this trilogy idea they've been trying to sell since it'd be more like classic where the patches are all disconnected and that can still work but the main story goes directly against it. It's so weird like they're playing to all their weaknesses on purpose and sabotaging their own story

Because marketing is a lie to attract suckers. That's all there is to it. There is enough interconnectivity with "missing stories" between expansions (World Soul stuff, Harandar, Ethereals) that they can say it's a "saga" because the stories aren't completed in their own individual expansions.

The saga model is just a stunt to get sales + telling you later expansions in case you don't like the current one.

[Nymrohd]

While it's eyerolling that they keep using light-blinded (is it for dumb players that they repeat words? translations?), Arator is 100% in the right for telling his mother that the leader of the Vanguard did something weird and violent that seemed to be caused by his main source of power (aka he's getting corrupted, watch the fuck out). Now, if he really did run off in the middle of the siege, that's odd.

Yeah, right in the middle of the siege, get the woman who is a living void bomb barely in control mad in front of the lady collecting Dark Naaru. The boy is a moron. Maybe, just maybe let his dad have a chance to talk to his wife once the apocalypse clock is not at Midnight?

[GeometryWizard]

Because marketing is a lie to attract suckers. That's all there is to it. There is enough interconnectivity with "missing stories" between expansions (World Soul stuff, Harandar, Ethereals) that they can say it's a "saga" because the stories aren't completed in their own individual expansions.

The saga model is just a stunt to get sales + telling you later expansions in case you don't like the current one.

Stunt is the right way to put it because they're playing with fire right now. The combat and addon changes are coming in extremely hot and people are finding out more and more how much of a stupid expensive grind housing and especially the new transmog system is to the point it feels like it's trying to juice token sales. So much has been built on "just wait for Midnight" and it comes out even worse than TWW we're looking at SL all over again

[Vakir]

once the apocalypse clock is not at Midnight?

Insert Miles Teller Reed Richards here. You know the meme.

And the thing is, Arator probably won't be held accountable with any significant negative consequence for any of this.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I don't really think they're playing with fire. We got a earlier Blizzcon in September with Classic+ announcement by that point all the Midnight story complaints are washed away and replaced with "Just get excited for Classic+ and wait for TLT" and "TLT is the only true expansion in the Saga" discourse.

[Vakir]

I don't really think they're playing with fire.

Definitely not. If there's anything the numbers we do have tells us it's that WoW remains a juggernaut even when the brand is damaged.

I just mean in hindsight - plus what better benefits the consumer rather than Blizzard, of course.

[Cheezits]

Stunt is the right way to put it because they're playing with fire right now. The combat and addon changes are coming in extremely hot and people are finding out more and more how much of a stupid expensive grind housing and especially the new transmog system is to the point it feels like it's trying to juice token sales. So much has been built on "just wait for Midnight" and it comes out even worse than TWW we're looking at SL all over again

SL failed because of content drought + core gameplay loops being terrible, on top of the story. Even if the housing grind + transmog costs don't change in beta (I'm sure the latter will- if not account wide slots, then at least small amounts for changing in the one slot) the biggest grumbling will be about the generic story. And so far they've bent the knee to every single twitter complaint from alpha, just about- at least for the stuff they can actually change, which is non-voice acted story.

This isn't a ripcord thing where everyone hated it (covenants, torghast) and they didn't bend for a year and a half, considering there are a large amount of people praising the combat and addon changes, whereas the covenant and torghast lovers were a minutia.

[Murlocos]

Obviously I'm projecting ahead, I don't know what's going to happen, but I wouldn't be surprised if the World Soul Saga branding and hype actually hurt the overall perception of these stories.

Imagine if Cata, Mists, and WoD were built up and called the Warsong Saga because there's some connective tissue of that larger theme around Garrosh. People might be way more disappointed than they were without it.

There is some self-awareness internally that the Worldsoul Saga was a better label for the story they wanted to tell than Keeping Up With the Windrunners, even if that is the actual and in fact, only story that senior members of the narrative team are interested in telling.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

Definitely not. If there's anything the numbers we do have tells us it's that WoW remains a juggernaut even when the brand is damaged.

I just mean in hindsight - plus what better benefits the consumer rather than Blizzard, of course.

Yeah, the financial success of the game does make this situation more awful in that it really feels like they didn't need to do this. But, alas maybe the World Soul Saga marketing was what moved the needle to get to where we are currently.

Personally, I hope that they just try and make it seem like they care in the next two expansions so that we avoid the Metzen Blizzcon 2023 footage becoming a haunted tape.

[Vakir]

There is some self-awareness internally that the Worldsoul Saga was a better label for the story they wanted to tell than Keeping Up With the Windrunners, even if that is the actual and in fact, only story that senior members of the narrative team are interested in telling.

It's funny, they seemingly tripled down on that focus with this new direction.

The TWW marketing stuff that came out that had to be made before the pivot focused on Thrall being angry at his disconnection from the elements and really played up Orwenya being vastly more relevant then she is in Harandar. They said Thrall is showing up later this expansion in an interview, but Alleria is overexposed in TWW at the expense of both.

I get that everyone wanted to know what happened to Turalyon and Alleria ad nauseum, but we know now, and Argus was a good patch all things considered, so they don't need to cling to them this hard. Yes, they are major Light and Void representatives, but they shouldn't even be close to the only ones.

For all the shrieking bloody murder about characters like Faerin, she is standing at the Sunwell in an animation loop and has like 4 lines. One of a dozen of characters that could be doing literally anything.

[Cheezits]

For all the shrieking bloody murder about characters like Faerin, she is standing at the Sunwell in an animation loop and has like 4 lines.

Remember when WoW died because of a shitty cutscene? I remember.

[GeometryWizard]

I don't really think they're playing with fire. We got a earlier Blizzcon in September with Classic+ announcement by that point all the Midnight story complaints are washed away and replaced with "Just get excited for Classic+ and wait for TLT" and "TLT is the only true expansion in the Saga" discourse.

The thing is that their track record is not good on this and people aren't going to get strung along forever. IMO it feels like more they are banking heavily on millions of new players come in for Midnight strictly for housing and ideally for Blizzard they don't care about the story at all so they stop being nagged about it

[Cheezits]

The thing is that their track record is not good on this and people aren't going to get strung along forever. IMO it feels like more they are banking heavily on millions of new players come in for Midnight strictly for housing and ideally for Blizzard they don't care about the story at all so they stop being nagged about it

I think part of the pivot is because they feel that no matter what they do, their most hardcore players will never enjoy their story content ever again (especially with modern sensibilities they must include). Which is not true, of course, but explains why the story is being written more for generic wide audiences who don't care as much about WoW, and written by people who also don't care as much (see: lore errors, high elf veilwings, etc), and less story quests are being written in general.

It's the tradeoff we get for WoW being alive post BFA/SL- a shift towards devs and players who -don't- care that much about Warcraft as much as they do the game WoW.

Before people say "lol no new players play wow!!" this is a cope and the giant business wouldn't be doing these generic audience things if this was the case.

[Vakir]

Remember when WoW died because of a shitty cutscene? I remember.

It's like these people forgot about the equally cringe unearned Avengers Portals scene in the Emerald Dream.

I remember a priest meleeing a yeti with her staff in the Wrath reveal circa 2006.

Hyperbole and negativity engagement is king in the modern Internet, sadly.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

The thing is that their track record is not good on this and people aren't going to get strung along forever. IMO it feels like more they are banking heavily on millions of new players come in for Midnight strictly for housing and ideally for Blizzard they don't care about the story at all so they stop being nagged about it

We don't have video essayists ready to hound over how Metzen and Warcraft Teams' leadership weren't going to actually give the resources, time and effort necessary to make this Saga a success. Our biggest critic for World of Warcraft is fucking Taliesin now. So you know, I don't see this stupid idea that a viral video essay about the "Atrocity of the World Soul Saga" happening. Its' a deep found fantasy derived from the backstabbing being as awful as it is.

The game is also just in a permanent Legion state now. Any story complaints will be met with "Gameplay good, fuck off" rhetoric and again they have also timed this so that when we will feel most sored out on Midnight.. There will be a Blizzcon a few months later that will have Classic+.

[Nymrohd]

Remember when WoW died because of a shitty cutscene? I remember.

A little part of WoW died for me with the final cutscene in WoD. And more of it died with BfA and SL.