Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Cheezits]

What's happening today?

Actually tomorrow. The Lightblinded Vanguard fight will be testable, against three of the Vanguard's top generals.

[Raetary]

Apparently, Blood Ties ends with a huge twist that explains a lot of the odd characterization of Turalyon in Midnight: Alleria leaves him and renounces their marriage

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...Ties-spoilers?

If this is true, absolutely insane choice to put in a book, unless they show it in some side-content before launch. That is a huge missing piece of the story that explains a lot of Turalyon stuff for me in Midnight... I might actually like it, now?

Yeah, these are some major development that put a lot into perspective.
This context needs to be in the game.

Or at very least should've been easily available short stories that everyone can get access to.

[Limayria]

The ultimate toxic Yuri.

- - - Updated - - -



That's fine, albeit I don't know if that has to be a literal manifestation. The idea of human potential or the capacity of our ability to value life and oppose the tyranny of enforcement has already been explored with Algalon, whose questline I still bet anything on is the overall writing prototype for where TLT is going and ends.

I just don't want this to suddenly be a situation where someone literally ignites in their soul to have Azerite coloring and unlocks a willed superpower or something via their will or spirit. The whole spergy 7th force description feels worryingly like that.

It can be a force in a figurative sense, I just don't want it to be an actual setpiece of cosmic involvement.

I think that "free will" will manifest as the ability to use other forces rather than them using us. It'd pair up pretty nicely we'll have Alleria who used the void to fight a void lord. illidan who used fel to fight the legion. Thrall who used earth to fight the earth warder, Anduin/Arator whos gonna use the light vs the light. Etc

I also hope there's not going to be a literal force of free will even though I could see it happening. Though I do think the whole "doubling up on a force is more stable" thing is gonna come up again and free will might be like the "null force" so you can add it to your fel or void or light to help keep you more stable and balanced with out changing the basic composition too much


The new Draenei group we've met makes me more hopeful than ever that we're going to launch an expedition or whatever into the great dark to help liberate mortals all over the universe we could even kick start the expac heading back to argus taking over the shipyards and the portal nexus

Yeah, these are some major development that put a lot into perspective.
This context needs to be in the game.

Or at very least should've been easily available short stories that everyone can get access to.

Hot take but the books should be readable in game

[Hitei]

The 7th crap being Azeroth, or being the people of Azeroth, or being free will has literally NEVER made sense, even with the limited skeleton writing surrounding the 7th.

The very small handful of things that are explicitly stated about the 7th are that the six cosmic forces are one and the seventh and repel the 7th, keeping it at bay. Azeroth is very specifically talked about as being a nexus for the forces, so it is the six in one. It also makes zero sense for "free will" to be the 7th (said to be denied by the six), when half of the cosmic forces (Life, Disorder, and Void) all actively feed into or even create free will. Further, it's stated that only one of them (the six together or the seventh) can exist, and as above, free will exists perfectly fine with the six forces even if the rigid three do try to subvert it.

I very much doubt that the 7th even exists in current form, it's just a floating plot point like "there's something bad under Tirisfal" that they put in just for ominous background noise that can eventually be pulled in if they like. But even without existing, the description so far precludes things like "free will" from being the answer.

[Nymrohd]

Sometimes I wish that dev who said that Azeroth died from all the shit that happened and we are simply her heirs was right.

[Raetary]

Hot take but the books should be readable in game

I don't think many would consider this a hot take.

People barely read at all, let alone buy wow books.
Doesn't help that since they are independently published, its a lot harder and more expensive to get your hands on them unless you have direct access to the US market.

So a lot of the stories there just don't get seen and people run through the in-game stories with little pretext.

Imo, WoW could benefit a lot from having a lore tab, with both collectible in-game lore texts as well as direct access to out-of-game lore resources.

[Joshuaj]

The 7th crap being Azeroth, or being the people of Azeroth, or being free will has literally NEVER made sense, even with the limited skeleton writing surrounding the 7th.

The very small handful of things that are explicitly stated about the 7th are that the six cosmic forces are one and the seventh and repel the 7th, keeping it at bay. Azeroth is very specifically talked about as being a nexus for the forces, so it is the six in one. It also makes zero sense for "free will" to be the 7th (said to be denied by the six), when half of the cosmic forces (Life, Disorder, and Void) all actively feed into or even create free will. Further, it's stated that only one of them (the six together or the seventh) can exist, and as above, free will exists perfectly fine with the six forces even if the rigid three do try to subvert it.

I very much doubt that the 7th even exists in current form, it's just a floating plot point like "there's something bad under Tirisfal" that they put in just for ominous background noise that can eventually be pulled in if they like. But even without existing, the description so far precludes things like "free will" from being the answer.

Yeah, I don't think the Free Will is a First One or anything like that. However, when I say "a 7th", I don't mean the thing Zovaal or N'Zoth feared. I mean "what if the Elements also had a Progenitor? And said Progenitor also split itself into multiple entities within the Dark Beyond?"

Ofc this is just a theory of mine, and I could be very much wrong, but idk.

If nothing else, I think it's either that, or the worldsouls (particularly Azeroth) are remnants of an all powerful creator being.

- - - Updated - - -

Sometimes I wish that dev who said that Azeroth died from all the shit that happened and we are simply her heirs was right.

Dave Kosak?

[Nymrohd]

Hot take but the books should be readable in game

A lot of the things that happen in books could have been content in game. In the case of some older books, they could have been entire expansions (Stormrage and the Comic could have combined into a full expansion between Cataclysm and Wrath). In most cases they could at least be a large questline finished with a scenario in an X.X.5 patch.

[Vakir]

Sometimes I wish that dev who said that Azeroth died from all the shit that happened and we are simply her heirs was right.

Amirdrassil and the awakening of the Aspects secreted a bunch of intense herbs and everyone simultaneously had a wild drug induced hallucination of a talking planet core sun.

Seriously, just do this.

[Joshuaj]

Seeing the Dreamrift testing rn, and the effect colors remind me of the Progenitors ngl. Light blue and white.

[Sondrelk]

The 7th crap being Azeroth, or being the people of Azeroth, or being free will has literally NEVER made sense, even with the limited skeleton writing surrounding the 7th.

The very small handful of things that are explicitly stated about the 7th are that the six cosmic forces are one and the seventh and repel the 7th, keeping it at bay. Azeroth is very specifically talked about as being a nexus for the forces, so it is the six in one. It also makes zero sense for "free will" to be the 7th (said to be denied by the six), when half of the cosmic forces (Life, Disorder, and Void) all actively feed into or even create free will. Further, it's stated that only one of them (the six together or the seventh) can exist, and as above, free will exists perfectly fine with the six forces even if the rigid three do try to subvert it.

I very much doubt that the 7th even exists in current form, it's just a floating plot point like "there's something bad under Tirisfal" that they put in just for ominous background noise that can eventually be pulled in if they like. But even without existing, the description so far precludes things like "free will" from being the answer.

The seventh is never really given much direct explanation, just vague stuff. And while it doesnt necessarily have much towards Azeroth specifically. It does seem to imply that "reality", (which then includes Azeroth) is the 7th force. As it is simultaneously born of, and diametrically opposed to the other six primal forces.

As Firim talks about in SL. The view from an inhabitant of the Shadowlands is that the only thing that matters is the six primal forces, as those were specifically ordered and made into the firmament of the universe. Whereas reality seems to have simply grown upon it. Whihc explains why so many forces want it, while also explaining why all six forces are so prominent within it.
It is as I stated before. Both made directly from the six forces. While also being something entirely alien to their existence.

[micwini]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fELjCCqsO3g
@Cheezits

Damn you did an interview? Crazy.

Some interesting bits of Ion about the addon change and whats to come.

[Sondrelk]

Amirdrassil and the awakening of the Aspects secreted a bunch of intense herbs and everyone simultaneously had a wild drug induced hallucination of a talking planet core sun.

Seriously, just do this.

Mass retcons like that are almost always the death knell of a franchise. The only known entity to survive them seem to be Superhero comic books. And I imagine only in that case because people have just accepted that consequences don't matter.

No matter how shit the story, the writers should always endeavor to salvage as much as possible to attempt a coherent throughline. Throwing their hands up and burning everything down only works if the writers are such geniuses they could have managed without going scorched earth anyways.

[Joshuaj]

The seventh is never really given much direct explanation, just vague stuff. And while it doesnt necessarily have much towards Azeroth specifically. It does seem to imply that "reality", (which then includes Azeroth) is the 7th force. As it is simultaneously born of, and diametrically opposed to the other six primal forces.

As Firim talks about in SL. The view from an inhabitant of the Shadowlands is that the only thing that matters is the six primal forces, as those were specifically ordered and made into the firmament of the universe. Whereas reality seems to have simply grown upon it. Whihc explains why so many forces want it, while also explaining why all six forces are so prominent within it.
It is as I stated before. Both made directly from the six forces. While also being something entirely alien to their existence.

Reality grew upon the framework like a fungus, though I imagine that was intentional.

[SilverLion]

Mass retcons like that are almost always the death knell of a franchise. The only known entity to survive them seem to be Superhero comic books. And I imagine only in that case because people have just accepted that consequences don't matter.

No matter how shit the story, the writers should always endeavor to salvage as much as possible to attempt a coherent throughline. Throwing their hands up and burning everything down only works if the writers are such geniuses they could have managed without going scorched earth anyways.

Don't tell the WoW fandom this. Cuz their entire answer to every bit of lore they don't like is "burn it all down, rewrite it from scratch".

[Sondrelk]

Apparently, Blood Ties ends with a huge twist that explains a lot of the odd characterization of Turalyon in Midnight: Alleria leaves him and renounces their marriage

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...Ties-spoilers?

If this is true, absolutely insane choice to put in a book, unless they show it in some side-content before launch. That is a huge missing piece of the story that explains a lot of Turalyon stuff for me in Midnight... I might actually like it, now?

Not a bad idea if the writers want to ensure that both Alleria and Turalyon are in the wrong headspace, and prone to making terrible decisions. Would somewhat retroactively make Alleria in TWW more reasonable, as we can see how her weird actions did actually come from being on the brink of mental collapse. And would make Turalyon in Midnight pretty good, as the book would explain his actions as someone who desperately needed Alleria to be his mental rock.

Doesnt explain Arator though sadly. I guess we have to assume his actions are explained as a teen lashing out, desperate for his divorced parents' love.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I don't think many would consider this a hot take.

People barely read at all, let alone buy wow books.
Doesn't help that since they are independently published, its a lot harder and more expensive to get your hands on them unless you have direct access to the US market.

So a lot of the stories there just don't get seen and people run through the in-game stories with little pretext.

Imo, WoW could benefit a lot from having a lore tab, with both collectible in-game lore texts as well as direct access to out-of-game lore resources.

Yeah, one day we get the Lore Tab. One day.

Mass retcons like that are almost always the death knell of a franchise. The only known entity to survive them seem to be Superhero comic books. And I imagine only in that case because people have just accepted that consequences don't matter.

No matter how shit the story, the writers should always endeavor to salvage as much as possible to attempt a coherent throughline. Throwing their hands up and burning everything down only works if the writers are such geniuses they could have managed without going scorched earth anyways.

I mean they're throwing their hands up in the air right now? This is just slow walking to the same point as at Sepulcher in Shadowlands except we're doing it over Three Expansions. We even have a blue guy as the final villain. Its' not really ¨hard to recognize we're looping at this point.

[Vakir]

Mass retcons like that are almost always the death knell of a franchise. The only known entity to survive them seem to be Superhero comic books. And I imagine only in that case because people have just accepted that consequences don't matter.

It's a joke.

I don't mind the whole Hear, Think, Feel Azeroth schtick.

[Nymrohd]

Not a bad idea if the writers want to ensure that both Alleria and Turalyon are in the wrong headspace, and prone to making terrible decisions. Would somewhat retroactively make Alleria in TWW more reasonable, as we can see how her weird actions did actually come from being on the brink of mental collapse. And would make Turalyon in Midnight pretty good, as the book would explain his actions as someone who desperately needed Alleria to be his mental rock.

Honestly the short story before TWW was telling us how Alleria is struggling. They just completely failed to iterate upon this during TWW itself. She should have confided in us (or to Vereesa where we could listen) about her struggling to deal with the Void.

[Sondrelk]

Honestly the short story before TWW was telling us how Alleria is struggling. They just completely failed to iterate upon this during TWW itself. She should have confided in us (or to Vereesa where we could listen) about her struggling to deal with the Void.

Yeah, it's the usual issue with these books. Great ideas. Shame it wasnt in the game at all.