Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Cheezits]

Honestly the short story before TWW was telling us how Alleria is struggling. They just completely failed to iterate upon this during TWW itself. She should have confided in us (or to Vereesa where we could listen) about her struggling to deal with the Void.

The thing is that she doesn't struggle with the void, not even in the book, or the game- her issue is that her mind is in a bad place. We don't know what corrupts her in Midnight. She's shown to be hiding away in K'aresh chasing Xal and pushing everyone away in the Midnight prologue, which likely takes place after this story. The ingame version of her "struggle" was definitely Locus-Walker's death- but this isn't as impactful as having to divorce her husband.

Compared to Turalyon, nobody gives a shit about LW blowing up, fanbase wise. So having this event only in a book (for now) is a huge mistake.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

Honestly, I'd love if the Lore Tab did just have a tab where you could purchase the Books in-game. I know it can't happen due to the structure of Encryption / Decryption. But I have always dreamed of the Lore Tab also having a purchasing section and allowing it to read in-client and even with Housing they could even let them be placeables in your house or on your shelves to pick up and read from.

But again, ain't happening. Sigh.

[Nymrohd]

The thing is that she doesn't struggle with the void, not even in the book, or the game- her issue is that her mind is in a bad place. We don't know what corrupts her in Midnight. She's shown to be hiding away in K'aresh chasing Xal and pushing everyone away in the Midnight prologue, which likely takes place after this story. The ingame version of her "struggle" was definitely Locus-Walker's death- but this isn't as impactful as having to divorce her husband.

Compared to Turalyon, nobody gives a shit about LW blowing up, fanbase wise. So having this event only in a book (for now) is a huge mistake.

She is in a bad space and ALSO has the Void in her mind. The fact that she thinks it is just that she is in a poor mood is exactly the same with Turalyon blaming himself instead of acknowledging that using the Light when you are not in proper control of your emotions is a momentously poor idea (because the light will react to them and amplify them, not because it is evil and controlling but because that is what it does.) It's like an addict blaming everything but their addiction.

[Cheezits]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fELjCCqsO3g
@Cheezits

Damn you did an interview? Crazy.

I was actually controlling him through the hat.

[Sondrelk]

Sidenote though. Playing through Argus again on Lemix. And it's relly just as good as I remember it being. And this isnt even a side patch Draenei special. It's a main storyline, climactic final patch epic. And somehow it isnt terrible (besides Illidan, but hey). Draenei really are just the secret sauce to make stories in WoW great, aren't they.

[Cheezits]

She is in a bad space and ALSO has the Void in her mind. The fact that she thinks it is just that she is in a poor mood is exactly the same with Turalyon blaming himself instead of acknowledging that using the Light when you are not in proper control of your emotions is a momentously poor idea (because the light will react to them and amplify them, not because it is evil and controlling but because that is what it does.) It's like an addict blaming everything but their addiction.

While that makes sense, it's not something we've seen in game and I'm guessing not in the book. So I'm not sure if she's actually struggling with the void, or if her "I gotta do this myself" just makes her naturally weaker to it, which will lead to the eventual corruption.

[Sondrelk]

Honestly, I'd love if the Lore Tab did just have a tab where you could purchase the Books in-game. I know it can't happen due to the structure of Encryption / Decryption. But I have always dreamed of the Lore Tab also having a purchasing section and allowing it to read in-client and even with Housing they could even let them be placeables in your house or on your shelves to pick up and read from.

But again, ain't happening. Sigh.

Honestly, even just a quick recap of the book would be nice. Yes it would spoil the books, but given the consequences are already in the game, it really shouldnt matter. What's wrong with a pre-BfA quest where Anduin or Voss tells the player about what happened in Stromgarde during the Before the Storm book? Would help immensely to explain what is happening.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

While that makes sense, it's not something we've seen in game and I'm guessing not in the book. So I'm not sure if she's actually struggling with the void, or if her "I gotta do this myself" just makes her naturally weaker to it, which will lead to the eventual corruption.

Stopped at the half way point for the book today, and it does have her kinda snap when they find some dead elfs because she got talked into stopping and relaxing for a day instead of rushing straight to battle which she wanted to do alone.

Only after this does void whispers start happening with her earlier going on about how she’s refined her control to block them out. So it’s very much so the latter.

[Nymrohd]

While that makes sense, it's not something we've seen in game and I'm guessing not in the book. So I'm not sure if she's actually struggling with the void, or if her "I gotta do this myself" just makes her naturally weaker to it, which will lead to the eventual corruption.

I am more suggesting that if we insist the Light is BLINDING people with wrath, ignoring that the Void is doing the same with paranoia is crazy. What with the Void doing exactly that being a theme we have seen in game since Vanilla.

[Murlocos]

It's funny, they seemingly tripled down on that focus with this new direction.

The TWW marketing stuff that came out that had to be made before the pivot focused on Thrall being angry at his disconnection from the elements and really played up Orwenya being vastly more relevant then she is in Harandar. They said Thrall is showing up later this expansion in an interview, but Alleria is overexposed in TWW at the expense of both.

I get that everyone wanted to know what happened to Turalyon and Alleria ad nauseum, but we know now, and Argus was a good patch all things considered, so they don't need to cling to them this hard. Yes, they are major Light and Void representatives, but they shouldn't even be close to the only ones.

For all the shrieking bloody murder about characters like Faerin, she is standing at the Sunwell in an animation loop and has like 4 lines. One of a dozen of characters that could be doing literally anything.

I don't have a screenshot of it available on this computer, but just before Blizzcon 2023 Sean Copeland's wife tweeted something to the effect of "I'm glad Metzen is coming back to helm the story again, previous heads of the story were trying to only steer towards their few favorite characters while Metzen truly cared for the whole setting". I don't hold it as gospel, but I think a comment from someone with a direct relation to a senior member involved with the story for over a decade should hold some weight when it comes to the speculation of what is running through the minds of the writers. Hell, nobody disputes that the ultimate boogeyman of the team was overly attached to his favorite orc.

Metzen himself isn't the focal point either; this wouldn't even be the first game universe he's come back to and decided it's about a love story instead! But it's telling that the PR put out around TWW's release from both himself and other devs emphasized that he's just another voice in the room, that we're not getting an unfiltered Metzen baby, and you can see where we're at. The story and world revolve around a few characters and visibly bend to fit the needs of their own story.

My hot take is that they're not confident in what they're putting out in the slightest, but it's all they know how to put out. The Midnight drinking game is to take a shot every time a character painfully overexplains a stance or action they taking, trying to cover so many angles in such unnatural fashion that you realize they're utterly terrified of you believing even a minor NPC may have an opinion that improperly deviates from the hivemind. They added characters for the PvP part of Voidstorm whom the domanaar describe as "the most bloodthirsty, the most unable to accept peace" of their factions, and when you talk to them they almost verbatim go "Peace isn't a bad thing at all, but I prefer fighting. Not that you liking peace is bad, and it's in fact quite good, but I prefer fighting. And if you aren't as hateful and unusual as me, you can get PvP currency from here! Thank you for your time."

Every time these long dialogues fill the screen, I don't reflect on how well thought out and articulate these characters are, all I think is wow, the writers are so afraid to let these characters act out, like HR has a gun at their heads at all times. Everyone is so diplomatic and formal in how they present these seemingly irreconcilable beliefs that you have to strain yourself to view them as characters and not just the quest designer speaking to you directly. When does this let up the most? Unsurprisingly, it's in the side quests where the more talented quest designers can write actual characters and conflicts that aren't bound to the main plot which is written with such utter fear that every character might as well be a cardboard cutout with a two-way sign that reads I'm good. Please like me. on one side and I'm bad. Please dislike me. on the other that are turned around on a whim. Blizzard heard that people liked the side quests and their solution was to just make the main story shorter.

It's so stiff and the complete changes in behavior and plot so frequent and sudden now that it asks an increasingly bewildering level of suspension of disbelief and faith in the writers that never goes rewarded. Everyone knows that they can and will retcon things when they feel like it for the story they're telling in the moment, but it's completely different when a quest designer on Twitter casually confirms it because they don't bother to put up the pretense of care anymore. At some point you have to realize that it's like Lucy pulling up the football before Charlie Brown even runs to kick it, but he tries anyways: what's the point?

[Cheezits]

Every time these long dialogues fill the screen, I don't reflect on how well thought out and articulate these characters are, all I think is wow, the writers are so afraid to let these characters act out, like HR has a gun at their heads at all times. Everyone is so diplomatic and formal in how they present these seemingly irreconcilable beliefs that you have to strain yourself to view them as characters and not just the quest designer speaking to you directly. When does this let up the most? Unsurprisingly, it's in the side quests where the more talented quest designers can write actual characters and conflicts that aren't bound to the main plot which is written with such utter fear that every character might as well be a cardboard cutout with a two-way sign that reads I'm good. Please like me. on one side and I'm bad. Please dislike me. on the other that are turned around on a whim. Blizzard heard that people liked the side quests and their solution was to just make the main story shorter.

Like HR has a gun to their head at all times? They do. Notable POC members of WoW Twitter complained about a line in a Haranir lore book where they, Dark Trolls at the time, called the other tribes "lesser trolls" because they thought it wasn't good that Dark Trolls (who would go on to become HIGHBORNE) could ever be racist. That line was promptly deleted. That line was also the ONLY line in the entire beta that confirms Haranir used to be Dark Trolls, so the lore got fucked up because of some sensitive morons on social media.

Most of the neutered comfy stuff is 100% because nobody wants to lose their job because someone got upset. And, unfortunately, feeding yourself and having a house is more important than WoW being as good as it could be. This is the monkeys paw of WoW continuing to exist into 2025.

[Murlocos]

Like HR has a gun to their head at all times? They do. Notable POC members of WoW Twitter complained about a line in a Haranir lore book where they, Dark Trolls at the time, called the other tribes "lesser trolls" because they thought it wasn't good that Dark Trolls (who would go on to become HIGHBORNE) could ever be racist. That line was promptly deleted.

Most of the neutered comfy stuff is 100% because nobody wants to lose their job because someone got upset. And, unfortunately, feeding yourself and having a house is more important than WoW being as good as it could be. This is the monkeys paw of WoW continuing to exist into 2025.

If they were in risk of losing their jobs because of people on Twitter complaining about their writing and viewing it as questionable, the entire team would be fired by now. They give those complaints traction because they choose to, and it's part of why I believe they're not confident in what they write, because most of the actioned complaints are either for blatant errors or something so egregious and at odds with what story they're trying to tell that almost any change would be an improvement.

The haranir specifically are such a convoluted mess that they're not going to please a lot of people by default. Their lore has gone through so many blatant changes since TWW started development pre-Metzen that trying to get invested in them is an easy way to get a free migraine. You probably couldn't get consistent answers from Blizzard on their lore right now, either.

[Cheezits]

If they were in risk of losing their jobs because of people on Twitter complaining about their writing and viewing it as questionable, the entire team would be fired by now. They give those complaints traction because they choose to, and it's part of why I believe they're not confident in what they write, because most of the actioned complaints are either for blatant errors or something so egregious and at odds with what story they're trying to tell that almost any change would be an improvement.

And the change I mentioned was not a blatant error that needed to be fixed, it was something that made people uncomfy and could be an HR issue. Hence why I brought it up and didn't bring up what you are currently talking about now, because it's unrelated to the point, and more related to why you were talking about every character having safe and sanitized opinions.

[Murlocos]

And the change I mentioned was not a blatant error that needed to be fixed, it was something that made people uncomfy and could be an HR issue. Hence why I brought it up and didn't bring up what you are currently talking about now, because it's unrelated to the point, and more related to why you were talking about every character having safe and sanitized opinions.

The complaint was less about it being something that made people uncomfortable and more anger that the haranir, who are negatively perceived as a replacement for night elves and even trolls by a large portion of the community, had lines demeaning these races. This is because faith in the quality of the writing has fallen so low that things that may be attempts at unreliable narration are instead viewed as word of god from the writers, and that's because they have consistently demonstrated they are terrible at unreliable narration and are very fond of directly telling you what you should think and believe instead. This is yet another problem exacerbated by the move to focusing on just a few characters and diminishing the amount of viewpoints in the story. It's why Arator is such a sticking point, because if you don't like Arator, there is no perspective for you in the story, and it's very easy to not like Arator.

It's people disliking haranir as a whole that fuels those complaints. They are not sold on the concept to begin with, viewing it as yet another ongoing trend of Blizzard trying to bury the relevance of established lore with something newer and shinier, and are agitated when they see existing lore they like demeaned by the new stuff, because without any other perspectives offered, it might as well be word of god; such is their track record. Removing the line is a bandaid on a gushing wound.

[Cheezits]

The complaint was less about it being something that made people uncomfortable and more anger that the haranir, who are negatively perceived as a replacement for night elves and even trolls by a large portion of the community, had lines demeaning these races. This is because faith in the quality of the writing has fallen so low that things that may be attempts at unreliable narration are instead viewed as word of god from the writers, and that's because they have consistently demonstrated they are terrible at unreliable narration and are very fond of directly telling you what you should think and believe instead. This is yet another problem exacerbated by the move to focusing on just a few characters and diminishing the amount of viewpoints in the story.

It's people disliking haranir as a whole that fuels those complaints. They are not sold on the concept to begin with, viewing it as yet another ongoing trend of Blizzard trying to bury the relevance of established lore with something newer and shinier, and are agitated when they see existing lore they like demeaned by the new stuff, because without any other perspectives offered, it might as well be word of god; such is their track record.

I absolutely disagree with the idea that people were mad about Haranir being racist because it sounded like the devs were shitting on Trolls/Nelves and instead think that it was because the two-three people I am referring to on X/Twitter got very angry with the idea of a POC-coded race acting racist to other POC-coded races. You are free to believe what you want, but the number one instigator for this change is very touchy about this subject, and has distinctly lead to the devs making similar changes in the past: so I will keep on believing this is more of the same, and not "the haranir got changed because people don't like them/don't like the writers so they think the writers are talking to them".

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

The writers obession with trauma is certainly strange. But maybe they got super uncomfy with Azeroth (Which is a can of worms that I always felt would lead to internal horrified state once they realized and well..) and so hence Xal'ataths ultra mega trauma and the Family trauma is all connected in explaining the trauma importance.

It doesn't help that I worry that probably means that Aman'thuls characterization will just boil down to "EVIL WIZARD MAN".

[Cheezits]

The writers obession with trauma is certainly strange. But maybe they got super uncomfy with Azeroth (Which is a can of worms that I always felt would lead to internal horrified state once they realized and well..) and so hence Xal'ataths ultra mega trauma and the Family trauma is all connected in explaining the trauma importance.

Which is why it's surprising they are doing an expansion all around the sexual assault and grooming analogies that go into Azeroth being stolen, imprisoned and forcibly changed- by a bunch of men + token woman.

Hey, if we get this trending on X, maybe we'll get a different expansion!

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

Which is why it's surprising they are doing an expansion all around the sexual assault and grooming analogies that go into Azeroth being stolen, imprisoned and forcibly changed- by a bunch of men.

Yeah. I still find it so fucking funny how the writers clearly would vomit and shake violently when confronted with this truth and yet... The A Plot is just plain uncomfortable fucking awful events after another but we don't feel anything because its' again just completely pointless due to a lack of context or any reason empathetically to care because of our lackluster story structuring around our new game model. (Albeit, Animated Shorts??? I guess we see.)

So maybe the entire reason for this focus is solely to like balance it out to make people think less of actual what The Last Titan is about.

[Cheezits]

Yeah. I still find it so fucking funny how the writers clearly would vomit and shake violently when confronted with this truth and yet... The A Plot is just plain uncomfortable fucking awful events after another but we don't feel anything because its' again just completely pointless due to a lack of context or any reason empathetically to care because of our lackluster story structuring around our new game model.

I mean the expansion is going to be about killing or banishing her abusers in a huge revenge plot so that's probably why it got approved. Said story will be popular until the end of time... just not to a sizable demographic of WoW and 99% of MMOC (I would guess).

[Nymrohd]

Honestly I believe in elegant design and conservation of detail so things like the Haranir annoy me to no end. They have similar models and themes with existing races. So what happens down the line? Will they displace existing races in storylines? Will Orweyna and Hagra feature in future expansions instead of established characters that have decades of story? If not, then Haranir players will feel cheated, their race barely used. If yes, then they are just taking the space from said established characters. Warcraft already has such an expansive roster that there is just no need for original characters unless existing characters are retired. Blizzard is already doing poorly with the same few characters and themes taking the majority of their narrative space already. Adding even more people to fight for the scraps is just poor design.