Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

Towellie made a stink that they aren't doing interviews on other things, but there is nothing to talk about that hasn't already been covered.

I mean I'm speaking about the future too. There's a chance this is just going to be noise until Blizzcon. Especially since we haven't even hit the worst of it yet as players aren't even engaging with it.

With Turbulent Timeways lasting till February 10th, will we get an earlier xpac release than we thought? But that would leave us at only two weeks of pre-patch. Or is it still the first week of March with two weeks "filler" between Timeways end and xpac launch.

Wish they'd just go out and tell us already.

It probably will be around March, I doubt we get the Date reveal and a sort of hype thing around TGA so I assume its just going to be a press release in January.

[Ochinko]

I would normally assume that Turbulent Timeways ends when Pre-patch starts. Certainly not halfway through. Could be some crossed wires here on either when the expansion is supposed to release, or when Turbulent Timeways is supposed to end.

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Or actually. Two weeks (or even just one week) earlier does make sense now that I think about it. Might create some issues with early access. Would probably be a complete shitstorm if players somehow got raid gear if they had early access.

I went and double checked, I had thought that they confirmed the end of january as pre-patch release but alas its still just speculation. Still, prepatch launch and timeways overlapping wouldnt be that bad for all the people leveling a void elf demon hunter.

It could make sense for Timeways to end on February 10th, with that also being the pre-patch launch. Then midnight could launch on march 10th and it would be a perfect month in between for people to get used to the new midnight changes.

[Therougetitan]

With Turbulent Timeways lasting till February 10th, will we get an earlier xpac release than we thought? But that would leave us at only two weeks of pre-patch. Or is it still the first week of March with two weeks "filler" between Timeways end and xpac launch.

Wish they'd just go out and tell us already.

I'd guess Feb 10 is the pre-patch date then March 10th for expac.

[Hearthfinder]

Might be an unpopular opinion but the Legion remains the most interesting faction (tied with the Scourge) in terms of visual diversity to me other than the green spam parts of course.

I hope that's not an unpopular opinion. The Burning Legion and the Scourge are basically the two original factions of villains, except for the original Horde.

I might have suffered from Legion fatigue after 6.2 and Legion, but the past decade has taught me that they can't really come up with anything better.

They approached greatness with the whispers of N'Zoth and Queen Azshara but it fizzled out into nothing, and ever since we've just seen them try and invent these new factions and villains left and right, none of which feel as genuine or metal as the originals.

Most of all Xal'atath has overstayed her welcome by about a dozen patches by now. It kinda feels like WoW no longer has a menacing big bad as we enter new expansions - every baddie we meet is just cannon fodder as the slow Xal'atath narrative carries in in perpetuity without any climatic story moments or resolutions.

I hope Sargeras pulls out his sword and is forced to do some type of Megazord type combat with Xal'atath before they both explode into a million pieces of glittery stardust.

[JDBlou]

I was thinking Nihilam for a couple of reasons:

1. I'd have there be less of a "final boss", and more of an ordeal where each boss is essentially the leader of each antagonistic demon faction. They'd all be "final bosses" in a way.

And 2. It's the location where Sargeras battled the Titans. I think it'd be the perfect location to locate a climactic demonic battle!

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Also, I like the idea of the mighty hellfire demons going against the more secretive, shadowy demon group.

So it's rather meandering? I don't think Warcraft has done a meandering sandbox expansion, well, ever.
Even Warlords (the closest parallel to yours I could think of) had the narrative thrust of: we prevent the iron horde invasion > we're trapped on the other side > striking out at each of the warlords to topple Grom's power structure from underneath him> Gul'dan usurps him> summon Archimonde> set up Legion . And you still don't have a BBEG to market which is half of your marketing done for you. Is there a BBEG at all? Why are we even going out there, are these rival warlords which means in-fighting or are they organising under one banner and that makes them a tangible threat? Because that requires a person to rally around.

The narrative thrust from Blood Ties appears to be: Yes the Legion COULD BE a threat IF they have someone to rally to. The demons only became a cosmos-threatening entity BECAUSE Sargeras organised them into the Legion. Without that, you just have in-fighting and devastation, and yes, destruction of worlds and civilisations but it's localised. Far closer in scope to a locust swarm and a crop field than an existential threat, especially at our power level.

I don't follow the Nihilam logic beyond "Wouldn't it be cool if--", and rule of cool only gets you so far. How can it be climactic if by your own preference there's no emergent escalation to get us there? Unless someone comes in and unifies them into a fighting force at some point in the expansion but that seems to run counter to your intention.

I'm not trying to be combative, I just want to understand how you sell this as an expansion to a quasi-narrative driven setting.

[Viridiel]

The only thing that makes me excited about the Legion remaining active on Outland is that we might get to see the gan'arg again. I'll never forgive Blizzard for replacing them with wyrmtongues.

[Jastall]

I mean, this is why the side stories work sometimes even in modern WoW. There's room to breathe, there's more flexibility to the types of stories, and they aren't beholden to any stupid soapy bullshit.

I'm also persuaded they're not written by the same people, or at least not within the same team environment. None of WoW's good side quests are great works of literary art, but most at least somewhat coherent in terms of theme, framing, and dialog, in start contrast to the main story pretty much always being a complete mess from TBC onwards with a handful of bright spots here and there.

Perhaps it's due to how those sidequests are written. Someone sets out to write X, made their outline, gets approved by their immediate lead over a cup of coffee, throws a couple drafts here and there, it gets implemented for the first iteration in-game without much in the way of expensive VA or animation budget required, it probably gets checked by a couple others to see if any element of the quest goes against lore/canon, then final implementation and go.

Whereas the main quest probably goes through the usual bureaucratic morass one would expect with a company of Blizzard's size. Who knows how many brainstorms, meetings, social media checks, and other potential obstacles gets in the way of anyone writing for the main story, and that's before factoring in office politics (IE Afriasabi vs Danuser's now well known differences in terms of taste) or the fact that the main story usually features VA and/or custom cutscenes which means ever more ways they can be fucked up, and ever more people that need to approve because you're throwing real money at that story now instead of paying a writer and like two coding interns to make something without VA work. I wouldn't be surprised if they take the mega safe routes in large part because it's the main way anything gets done story-wise.

[Scyth]

I'd guess Feb 10 is the pre-patch date then March 10th for expac.

I still don't think they will have a few nothing weeks between 20th of Jan and pre-patch. We will see soon enough I hope but I reckon we get pre-patch the day Remix ends.

[Dracullus]

I still don't think they will have a few nothing weeks between 20th of Jan and pre-patch. We will see soon enough I hope but I reckon we get pre-patch the day Remix ends.

Few weeks ago 27th January was datamined for pre-launch event, which would line up with 20th January pre-patch. I think timewalking event is so long simply because they have room to go through every expansion (and debuting SL twice).

[milkmustache]

Few weeks ago 27th January was datamined for pre-launch event, which would line up with 20th January pre-patch. I think timewalking event is so long simply because they have room to go through every expansion (and debuting SL twice).

I think there was also something about early access starting on Feb 27th with a March 3rd launch. This all lines up.

[Joshuaj]

The only thing that makes me excited about the Legion remaining active on Outland is that we might get to see the gan'arg again. I'll never forgive Blizzard for replacing them with wyrmtongues.

They never replaced the Gan'arg with Wyrmtongues. They function entirely different. The Gan'arg are low tier engineer Mo'arg demons. The bigger Mo'arg's were shown more during Legion due to them mostly being on the front lines.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

But seriously that does sound fucking rad. Might be an unpopular opinion but the Legion remains the most interesting faction (tied with the Scourge) in terms of visual diversity to me other than the green spam parts of course.

Eh, depends on if you're talking about the TBC Legion or the Legion-era Legion. The former are interesting with a nice diversity of villain races and a strong technological aesthetic, the latter are just various flavors of hulking bad guy and their technology is a lot uglier.

[Bozzoltank]

Dude that might be so cool. Imagine the zones if we're going off of the 4 zone structure of modern expansions. Bring Demon Hunters back into the fold in a major way, expanded race-class combos (Draenei, Orc...)

4 TBC-esque expansive zones with a meaningful demon warlord in charge:
Xoroth (remnant Eredar, like the Fel-Knights we fight in the Broken Shore Warlock Mount quest line)
Rancora (confirm it to be the Aranasi homeworld)
Nathreza
And the Pit Lord/Annihilan Homeworld

"Warlords of the Nether" (Definitely a WIP that one.)

Or all in on Nathreza (my bias personally)

A proper Twisting Nether expansion is all I want from World of Warcraft.

Rancora, Annihilus (like Nathreza and Nathrezim), Xoroth and Nathreza seem like THE obvious picks for planets to travel to.

If there is a demon leader on Xoroth, it would have to be Hakkar the Houndmaster in his TRUE form, A blazing, skeletal nightmare. It fits the landscape of Xoroth perfectly; described as a world of infernal heat and scorched bones! It just FITS.

Rancora's spider demons could have their roots in an Arachnid Wild God? A hungering spider goddess corrupted by Fel.

Mannoroth has been done to death at this point, I sincerely doubt the Legion would've accepted this much failure from him and kept him in a meaningful leadership position, so if they're ever to appoint a warlord of Annihilus (™), it'd be Magtheridon. It would be similar to Korriban, and just as dangerous. Lots of backstabbing, manipulating, and brutal combat.

When the untitled Eredath sequel is finished, the Draenei could use the Exodar as a method of flying to these planet-zones initially, and from there they could open up portals inter-connecting all the worlds. It would be the capital of the expansion.

The opportunity for dungeons would be insane: towering, obsidian academies for curses and shadow magic, stables where they host the famous Dreadsteeds, arenas where you battle denizens from across the Twisting Nether.

I’d go for the 3-raid format of Cataclysm, Mists and now Midnight. Make it 6-1-2 again! The 1-boss raid could easily be Hakkar the Houndmaster, while the larger 6-boss raid could be saved for Magtheridon and his armies. Maybe some citadel in Nathreza for the last 2-boss raid?

[Vakir]

Eh, depends on if you're talking about the TBC Legion or the Legion-era Legion. The former are interesting with a nice diversity of villain races and a strong technological aesthetic, the latter are just various flavors of hulking bad guy and their technology is a lot uglier.

I consider them interconnected. In a perfect world, they'd iterate further on Mo'arg and the like that didn't get a model update. It would make sense that some species would be less present in the attacking vanguard or defending their main stronghold vs. being deployed to stations like the Tempest Keep structures.

Also, man, Hakkar was done so dirty in Legion.

[Bozzoltank]

I consider them interconnected. In a perfect world, they'd iterate further on Mo'arg and the like that didn't get a model update. It would make sense that some species would be less present in the attacking vanguard or defending their main stronghold vs. being deployed to stations like the Tempest Keep structures.

Also, man, Hakkar was done so dirty in Legion.

The fact that they didn't save him for the Antorus raid seems so silly to me. They had the perfect opportunity to do so, but they chose two hounds instead? Hakkar could've commanded them. Giving him that disgusting Fel Lord model was so stupid.

How they select bosses infuriates me. Sometimes they absolutely nail it thematically, like Aberrus with the inclusion of Elementium, Shadowflame, experimental dragons, but other times they've no clue what they're doing, like an Antorus. Antorus in general, man. Where are the Observers? They could've made Kin'garoth a giant Mo'arg Engineer. Where are the Annihilan? WHY is the Portal Keeper of ALL the Legion's armies stuck in an itty-bitty room? Make it huge, throw all these orbiting planets in like the walkway to Algalon in Ulduar.

[Santandame]

I think it’s time Blizzard ditched new races, allied included and began working on updating the current models instead similar to the WoD revamp along with regular customisation updates. Work in the likes of Mag’har, Lightforged, Zandalari, Void Elves, Dark Irons etc into the original races as customisation.

[Joshuaj]

I consider them interconnected. In a perfect world, they'd iterate further on Mo'arg and the like that didn't get a model update. It would make sense that some species would be less present in the attacking vanguard or defending their main stronghold vs. being deployed to stations like the Tempest Keep structures.

Also, man, Hakkar was done so dirty in Legion.

Fully agreed.

[Santandame]

Can someone kindly explain to me, like I’m the most simple of 5 year olds, what is currently going on with transmog in Midnight? The costs, outfit slots, how transmog is even going to work and how that differs from how it currently is? I’m seeing a lot of controversy surrounding it and I’m not really following it to be honest.

[Darkarath]

I think it’s time Blizzard ditched new races, allied included and began working on updating the current models instead similar to the WoD revamp along with regular customisation updates. Work in the likes of Mag’har, Lightforged, Zandalari, Void Elves, Dark Irons etc into the original races as customisation.

Absolutely.

We have too many races.

I think that Blizzard might be preparing a kind of customization revamp for whatever comes after TLT, though. TLT certainly has potential for a new Allied Race or Race.

But we should have a Roadmap for 2026 soon, so we might get some surprises there.

[Sondrelk]

Can someone kindly explain to me, like I’m the most simple of 5 year olds, what is currently going on with transmog in Midnight? The costs, outfit slots, how transmog is even going to work and how that differs from how it currently is? I’m seeing a lot of controversy surrounding it and I’m not really following it to be honest.

Currently on live, you pay a set amount of gold (based on level and repair cost) to transmog individual pieces of gear.
In midnight there are two changes happening. One is that instead of transmogging individual pieces of gear, you are transmogging individual slots. So instead of transmogging "Shoulders of reasonable size" into "Shoulders of Orc Smashing". You are transmogging your shoulder slot, so that you will always have the "Shoulders of Orc Smashing" on your model, regardless of gear swaps.
Secondly is that you now have an extra UI with set transmog outfits, separate from the ones you currently have on live in the outfit tab, that you pay for twice (once to unlock, then once every time you want to make changes to it) that you can swap between freely.

The total effect is that rather than needing to transmog every time you get new gear, and then paying every time you get new gear, or change the one you have. You will pay a decent upfront cost to have a permanent transmog set. (Currently you get two slots for free, with up to 20 available with increasing price). And you will freely swap between ones you have made. With the only further cost associated being when you either want to change a set, or buy a new set entirely.