1. #123361
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkarath View Post
    I think that in expansions with 3 patches it was common for players to end their suscription before the last patch. However, those expansions didn't have the patch cadence that today's WoW has.

    Blizzard doing two patch expansions instead of three is probably a matter of money. I'm guessing that they do more in such way.

    It's a pitty because an expansion with 3 patches and the current patch model will most likely be one of the best if not best expansion as long as the story was decent.

    I like the current model and I think that Blizzard could still tell a good story with it, but they really need to add quest content in EVERY patch.
    I can point expansion with 3 patch raids (Legion, BfA, Wrath thx to rehashed Naxx), but we never had expac with 3 major patches - 7.1/8.1 were medium patches, excluding raid they were similar to bigger minor patches from current design.

    But yeah, if Microsoft/Blizz chill a little with perspective of extra 90$ every 18 months, 3 major patches/4 proper seasons would be PERFECT both for players and devs. Extra 6 months would round up expansion length to exactly 2 years.

    Of course its not pure 6 months added to devs clock, 1 extra season have to be designed. But 6 months seasons and patch every 8 weeks are already their ambitions, 2 year timeline is just more time to make proper continent, give players (and their wallets) some time to breath, more time to design flagship feature for expansion.

    It also means more predictable schedule. 18 month expac already is affecting WoW - MD must release randomly in February/March, Blizzcon is VERY early into Midnight and probably they will have to make proper reveal of TLT here, only alternative is random online reveal after 12.2.

    TLT will come around Fall '27 (without major delays) - best time window for new expac. So it would be time to make it first 4 tier expac.

  2. #123362
    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuaj View Post
    The post Voidstorm stuff would legit be funny asf ngl.

    I'm just imagining Xal'atath being in a constant state of desperation throughout the rest of Midnight and TLT.
    Yeah, she's legit competing with some of the worst at that point for "what the fuck are you even doing?" levels of inconsequential.

    That's not what I meant. There are people assuming the Dawnwell is the name of the new well, but it's not that.
    They're concerned it's gonna be a cloying rainbow well moreso than the name. If that is the name, though, I called it way before the IGC Thalyssra and co. model revelations. It feels so Blizzard.

  3. #123363
    Quote Originally Posted by Zardas View Post
    Isn't it simply what's already in the game, just higher rez ?



    Palace doesn't need to be tied to anything monarchic. In my country, on of the kings was decapitated, so clearly we are not to fond of monarchy, yet the president and a lot of the governement live in a building called a "palace".
    Nah. The Belf architecture is a bit different, the zones are scaled a bit larger, and a lot of places are either rebuilt, or in a different state.

    And that is interesting. I guess part of the reason it changed was so it could differentiate itself from Suramar. Another reason is likely due to every other city having a unique thing, so Silvermoon having its own unique thing makes sense.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakir View Post
    Yeah, she's legit competing with some of the worst at that point for "what the fuck are you even doing?" levels of inconsequential.



    They're concerned it's gonna be a cloying rainbow well moreso than the name. If that is the name, though, I called it way before the IGC Thalyssra and co. model revelations. It feels so Blizzard.
    Tbf here, Midnight's kinda started making Xal'atath kinda desperate, namely through the Voidstorm zone and the Ethereals going "You promised us a fuck ton, where tf is it???"

  4. #123364
    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuaj View Post
    Tbf here, Midnight's kinda started making Xal'atath kinda desperate, namely through the Voidstorm zone and the Ethereals going "You promised us a fuck ton, where tf is it???"
    At this point, if anyone trusts Xal, they deserve to get eaten.

    At least when Azshara promises you decadence and royal pleasures beyond measure, she can back it up and tends to give something of worth and only disposes of you when her back is against the wall.

    Xal is that addict burnout that constantly calls you asking for 25 bones and you totally know she's good for it c'mon maaan, and will betray you for literally no reason. She's worse than the guy in Weapons.

  5. #123365
    The Unstoppable Force Raetary's Avatar
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    It's high time for Blizzard to start hinting at what Xal is doing in the background and how she intends to reach the Worldsoul.




  6. #123366
    Quote Originally Posted by Vakir View Post
    At this point, if anyone trusts Xal, they deserve to get eaten.

    At least when Azshara promises you decadence and royal pleasures beyond measure, she can back it up and tends to give something of worth and only disposes of you when her back is against the wall.

    Xal is that addict burnout that constantly calls you asking for 25 bones and you totally know she's good for it c'mon maaan, and will betray you for literally no reason. She's worse than the guy in Weapons.
    It's funny, cause she IS doing stuff with the Void apparently. However, we just haven't seen her yet, She might be saved for a future WoW expac, ngl.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And given the whole Dimensius ordeal, as well as us "banishing the Shadow" in Midnight, I think she's gonna end up ruling over the Void as its empress.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Raetary View Post
    It's high time for Blizzard to start hinting at what Xal is doing in the background and how she intends to reach the Worldsoul.
    At this rate, I'm half convinced she has no real plans after the Sunwell stuff LMAO

    - - - Updated - - -

    If TWW was Xal'atath's rise, Midnight is Xal'atath's climax and falling point, with TLT being Xal'atath at her lowest.

  7. #123367
    Quote Originally Posted by Raetary View Post
    It's high time for Blizzard to start hinting at what Xal is doing in the background and how she intends to reach the Worldsoul.
    Doylist read, I don't think they defined one until well after this nonsense started.

    Whole thing feels very "people like this character we can use and we haven't spent like a crusty rag, let's put her front and center now!"

    And per usual, the promise and potential of how cool they are (her Knaifu quotes through Legion) doesn't measure to what they write when it's game time.
    @Joshuaj I will be shocked if she survives to TLT.

    Or I believe she at least gets put on ice before TLT.
    Last edited by Vakir; 2025-11-24 at 12:55 AM.

  8. #123368
    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuaj View Post


    I'm NOT gonna lie to myself and say a place like the Voidstorm ain't nearly as detailed as the Antoran Wastes or the Maw...

    This place is VERY detailed and gorgeous!
    I feel like you confuse detail with vistas, a big impressive archetectural marvel is great, but when the zone offers only that and some randomly placed backround it feels underwhelming up close. Especially when these huge structures have no actual content to them and you can just look at it from outside or afar while blitzing through the rest of the zone's randomly placed doodads.

    I will compare two different Dragonflight areas so that you don't think i believe that everything new is worse or anything, the ruby life pools vs Vakathros.

    Spoiler: 
    Starting with the ruby lifepools, they have a crazy amount of effort put in them even in this new trend of dragonriding, i think this proves devs can make equally good points of interests (like undermine) but are not encouraged to since this new form of flying makes most stuff invisible to the average player, starting from the bottom northern side, it is geogrpahically connected well through paths, meaning that it has two -"well dressed" with ruins- roads leading to the starting shore and the obsidian citadel, it also has two dirt roads, one leading to a deadend and the other leading to the river by it and the southern primalist side.

    This side other than the dungeon (which is contained inside the structure) and the quest objectives, has another tight road, almost like a cliff, which above it has some flavour npcs and below it the tuskarr fishing pool area, which itself, on the other side close to the lunker sign has another road up the mountain, between that path there is a cave with a rare/ treasure and little details like birds nesting and two downward riverfalls, one leads you next to an area where lava has collapsed the earth- thanks to some elementals redirecting the flow of the river- and that second stream actually loops back to the ruby life pools, a part of it which seemed a deadend at the start ( yet still contained one of the isles lore tablets called "welcoming the first" and many singing unkillable critters around an ancient dragons bones).

    Now for the lower gardens themselves, it has ton of quests, npcs and doodads that help bring life to the are and tell the story of everyday occurences just from the placement of certain creatures and items, it also has an inn to accomodate the new arivals and a flight path leading to the upper gardens of the lifepools (otherwise inaccessible especially so early in the expansion where dragonriding was a darkmoon seasaw/ glider.)

    From the moment you land on the upper gardens, you are greeted with one of the most beautiful views in the isles where veritistratz also hangs (that cool sidequest guy), behind you is a path leading to the upper gardens, where the main dragonflight eggroosts are located around the structure, these eggs are tended of course and each flight has its own unique tender with dialogue (although even the number of eggs tell a story), hell one is even involved in a main quest, but that is not all because other than the roosts at the edges the area is filled with npcs doing stuff, drakonoid kids zooming around and i think all the starting dragonflight proffesion stands are located here, but as you take a closer loot the structure has a hole in the middle, hosting even more eggs and a seemingly intricate water system leading down to a nicely designed drainage, and although there isnt anything to actually do here and a lot of closed doors (it is used in the dungeon as a boss room and an intermediate break between the rest of the dungeon while also suggesting the structure is hollowed with even more eggs), there is a red whelp gathering of shorts like a pre-school.

    You would think that is all it could possibly contain but no there is also the reds oathstone here, which albeit useless behind it highlights the titans water dam and all the lore implications, but it is not just lore you can find up here, this area also contains a dragonriding rune and a race route, and if you choose to follow it will lead to thaldraszus spa which leads to valdrakken, in a circular area with a titan statue and then further leads to tyrhold and its resevoir, and although tyrhold is a semi irrelevant area with scale and no interior to match, the outdoor content and the halls of infusion dungeon do a well enough job in highlight the contents of tyrhold quite well, and finally, the waterfalls sorrounding tyrhold, seemingly coming from the possibly biggest unnamed mountain in wow, reveal the now melted prison of the incarnates.

    Vakathros on the other hand, the most grand landmark of the azure span, is located in a remote area, away from any real objective, if not for the primalists it would not even have any path to connect it to anything in the span, but what does it provide, well it has a lore tablet but it is so vague it provides little value, the top is part of the fast travel system of the dragon isles, so it has a teleporter for the highest point of the span, the structure itself is nearly drowned in ice spikes, suggesting it contains some kind of tundra. It is so frozen that even the dragon towers have an icy texture where nowhere else is it utilised (which is sad really because it looks amazing from up close and a dragonkin village with that filter would look amazing).

    The bottom of the spire has an area that seemed to be a circular dragonkin base, now frozen and forgotten, with towers overlooking the eastern sea, on the north there is a solid mountain of what once was a waterfall, probably originating from the same mountain as tyholds water supplies, this waterfall leads nowhere on both sides. Now the southern side actually has some things going on, but it is exclusively main story content, the primalists have melted most of the glaciers where there also seemed to contain mostly waterfalls, other than that it just has a dragon glyph to the side and that is it. We never found out the reason the primalists wanted to bust it nor what it contained and probably never will, but that is not the main problem, the problem is that it exists for show, it has no real meat to it.

    We can try to give it extra points by assuming that it is the source of the glaciers but the melting of the southern side has no signs affecting the zone, no lore, no treasures, no rares, and although the glaciers contain some stuff they are mostly barren, ice fishing is cool but so much more to the west its a different part of the zone, there is also a spider cavern close to it with a haunted artifact, but the cave is only used for the side quest. Traversing has no real thought to it other than the assumption we will fly to it. There is a dragon race but also again its quite more western of it, same as some rares.


    This huge text highlighted primarily the visual details of things without mentioning all the treasures and rares that might be part of the zone and its design which absolutely make the gameplay of the open world better too.

    But the main point i am trying to convey is that in this new zone design norm, where dragonriding is supreme, the devs either have little interest in making detailed traversible terrains, with intentionally complimenting doodads and creative interests or the dead distance between them all unfortunately disconnects them from each other is such a way they fall way more flat.
    And honestly after the analysis of those two areas and the existance of Undermine, i am pretty sure the primary reason zones feel off is due to the new standard distance, size and perhaps pace (looking at K'aresh), not the capability of the devs to make quality zones.

    In the end it falls to preference, but liking the old zone design standard (mop to sl) is not weird, especially for the people who interacted with it the most, and unfortunately for me, especially if the majority prefers it now compared to then, the chances of getting zones like Revendreth or Suramar -where all zone areas feel complete enough by themselves by offering flavour from treasures, rares, achievements, the enviroment and items while at the same time connected to each other in smart, cool and creative ways- are low...

  9. #123369
    Quote Originally Posted by rainhard View Post
    I feel like you confuse detail with vistas, a big impressive archetectural marvel is great, but when the zone offers only that and some randomly placed backround it feels underwhelming up close. Especially when these huge structures have no actual content to them and you can just look at it from outside or afar while blitzing through the rest of the zone's randomly placed doodads.

    I will compare two different Dragonflight areas so that you don't think i believe that everything new is worse or anything, the ruby life pools vs Vakathros.

    Spoiler: 
    Starting with the ruby lifepools, they have a crazy amount of effort put in them even in this new trend of dragonriding, i think this proves devs can make equally good points of interests (like undermine) but are not encouraged to since this new form of flying makes most stuff invisible to the average player, starting from the bottom northern side, it is geogrpahically connected well through paths, meaning that it has two -"well dressed" with ruins- roads leading to the starting shore and the obsidian citadel, it also has two dirt roads, one leading to a deadend and the other leading to the river by it and the southern primalist side.

    This side other than the dungeon (which is contained inside the structure) and the quest objectives, has another tight road, almost like a cliff, which above it has some flavour npcs and below it the tuskarr fishing pool area, which itself, on the other side close to the lunker sign has another road up the mountain, between that path there is a cave with a rare/ treasure and little details like birds nesting and two downward riverfalls, one leads you next to an area where lava has collapsed the earth- thanks to some elementals redirecting the flow of the river- and that second stream actually loops back to the ruby life pools, a part of it which seemed a deadend at the start ( yet still contained one of the isles lore tablets called "welcoming the first" and many singing unkillable critters around an ancient dragons bones).

    Now for the lower gardens themselves, it has ton of quests, npcs and doodads that help bring life to the are and tell the story of everyday occurences just from the placement of certain creatures and items, it also has an inn to accomodate the new arivals and a flight path leading to the upper gardens of the lifepools (otherwise inaccessible especially so early in the expansion where dragonriding was a darkmoon seasaw/ glider.)

    From the moment you land on the upper gardens, you are greeted with one of the most beautiful views in the isles where veritistratz also hangs (that cool sidequest guy), behind you is a path leading to the upper gardens, where the main dragonflight eggroosts are located around the structure, these eggs are tended of course and each flight has its own unique tender with dialogue (although even the number of eggs tell a story), hell one is even involved in a main quest, but that is not all because other than the roosts at the edges the area is filled with npcs doing stuff, drakonoid kids zooming around and i think all the starting dragonflight proffesion stands are located here, but as you take a closer loot the structure has a hole in the middle, hosting even more eggs and a seemingly intricate water system leading down to a nicely designed drainage, and although there isnt anything to actually do here and a lot of closed doors (it is used in the dungeon as a boss room and an intermediate break between the rest of the dungeon while also suggesting the structure is hollowed with even more eggs), there is a red whelp gathering of shorts like a pre-school.

    You would think that is all it could possibly contain but no there is also the reds oathstone here, which albeit useless behind it highlights the titans water dam and all the lore implications, but it is not just lore you can find up here, this area also contains a dragonriding rune and a race route, and if you choose to follow it will lead to thaldraszus spa which leads to valdrakken, in a circular area with a titan statue and then further leads to tyrhold and its resevoir, and although tyrhold is a semi irrelevant area with scale and no interior to match, the outdoor content and the halls of infusion dungeon do a well enough job in highlight the contents of tyrhold quite well, and finally, the waterfalls sorrounding tyrhold, seemingly coming from the possibly biggest unnamed mountain in wow, reveal the now melted prison of the incarnates.

    Vakathros on the other hand, the most grand landmark of the azure span, is located in a remote area, away from any real objective, if not for the primalists it would not even have any path to connect it to anything in the span, but what does it provide, well it has a lore tablet but it is so vague it provides little value, the top is part of the fast travel system of the dragon isles, so it has a teleporter for the highest point of the span, the structure itself is nearly drowned in ice spikes, suggesting it contains some kind of tundra. It is so frozen that even the dragon towers have an icy texture where nowhere else is it utilised (which is sad really because it looks amazing from up close and a dragonkin village with that filter would look amazing).

    The bottom of the spire has an area that seemed to be a circular dragonkin base, now frozen and forgotten, with towers overlooking the eastern sea, on the north there is a solid mountain of what once was a waterfall, probably originating from the same mountain as tyholds water supplies, this waterfall leads nowhere on both sides. Now the southern side actually has some things going on, but it is exclusively main story content, the primalists have melted most of the glaciers where there also seemed to contain mostly waterfalls, other than that it just has a dragon glyph to the side and that is it. We never found out the reason the primalists wanted to bust it nor what it contained and probably never will, but that is not the main problem, the problem is that it exists for show, it has no real meat to it.

    We can try to give it extra points by assuming that it is the source of the glaciers but the melting of the southern side has no signs affecting the zone, no lore, no treasures, no rares, and although the glaciers contain some stuff they are mostly barren, ice fishing is cool but so much more to the west its a different part of the zone, there is also a spider cavern close to it with a haunted artifact, but the cave is only used for the side quest. Traversing has no real thought to it other than the assumption we will fly to it. There is a dragon race but also again its quite more western of it, same as some rares.


    This huge text highlighted primarily the visual details of things without mentioning all the treasures and rares that might be part of the zone and its design which absolutely make the gameplay of the open world better too.

    But the main point i am trying to convey is that in this new zone design norm, where dragonriding is supreme, the devs either have little interest in making detailed traversible terrains, with intentionally complimenting doodads and creative interests or the dead distance between them all unfortunately disconnects them from each other is such a way they fall way more flat.
    And honestly after the analysis of those two areas and the existance of Undermine, i am pretty sure the primary reason zones feel off is due to the new standard distance, size and perhaps pace (looking at K'aresh), not the capability of the devs to make quality zones.

    In the end it falls to preference, but liking the old zone design standard (mop to sl) is not weird, especially for the people who interacted with it the most, and unfortunately for me, especially if the majority prefers it now compared to then, the chances of getting zones like Revendreth or Suramar -where all zone areas feel complete enough by themselves by offering flavour from treasures, rares, achievements, the enviroment and items while at the same time connected to each other in smart, cool and creative ways- are low...
    The rest of the Voidstorm is uniquely designed as well, with Ethereal areas, uniquely colored locations, Void forests and whatnot...

  10. #123370
    The Unstoppable Force Chickat's Avatar
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    I did do a quick fly around of Eversong and Zulaman on beta and they do seem like the small zones like Valley of the four winds. So back to theme park and ditching the vast zones of Dragonflight?

  11. #123371
    The Unstoppable Force Raetary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chickat View Post
    I did do a quick fly around of Eversong and Zulaman on beta and they do seem like the small zones like Valley of the four winds. So back to theme park and ditching the vast zones of Dragonflight?
    It's more that the zones can't be scaled up any further without looking wildly disproportionate to the rest of the Eastern Kingdoms.




  12. #123372
    Quote Originally Posted by Vakir View Post
    At this point, if anyone trusts Xal, they deserve to get eaten.

    At least when Azshara promises you decadence and royal pleasures beyond measure, she can back it up and tends to give something of worth and only disposes of you when her back is against the wall.

    Xal is that addict burnout that constantly calls you asking for 25 bones and you totally know she's good for it c'mon maaan, and will betray you for literally no reason. She's worse than the guy in Weapons.
    What has she failed to hold up? She gave the Ravel a way to kill Dimensius and they fucked it up. In the second round she held up her end of the bargain and helped put Dimensius down for good, then killed Locus. She offered Eirich a way to counteract the broken awakening machine and delivered, we just showed up and killed him. She offered Aelric Renalash and delivered, he was simply not alive to see it happen. She offered Ansurek power in the form of ascension to rise up out of their stagnation and delivered, though it didn't get them very far. She offered black blood to Gallywix in exchange for the Heart being repaired and held up her end.

    Xal'atath holds up bargains very well. People's mistake is confusing making a bargain with loyalty or friendship. They keep expecting that she will have their back and carry them beyond the bounds of what she offered, and she is not a nice lady. It's fine to make bargains with her, you just don't drop your guard and stay aware that she is her own person with her own agenda and has no problem throwing literally anyone under the bus to meet her own ends.

  13. #123373
    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuaj View Post
    I think people are confused by the Dawnwell stuff...

    The Dawnwell is legit just another name for the Sunwell.
    That's not true at all. There wasn't a single reference to it (in-game or otherwise) before it was accidentally used in the description of Harandar on the website before being hastily changed. The final campaign chapter (where the Darkwell is cleansed) is called Dawn of a New Well, and there are several as yet unused spells and helper NPCs with the name Dawnwell in them. Many characters now reference the Sun directly rather than the Sunwell. Not a single NPC, quest, or otherwise refers to the current or past Sunwell as the Dawnwell.

    It's not 100% confirmed, but come on.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    No offense to redshirtguy but "the Dawnwell will be a rainbow because the CE trophies have a prismatic glow" is an insane theory. What?
    Man... I was being facetious with that. I'm choosing to blame Joshua.
    Last edited by Viridiel; 2025-11-24 at 04:40 AM.

  14. #123374
    Quote Originally Posted by Viridiel View Post
    That's not true at all. There wasn't a single reference to it (in-game or otherwise) before it was accidentally used in the description of Harandar on the website before being hastily changed. The final campaign chapter (where the Darkwell is cleansed) is called Dawn of a New Well, and there are several as yet unused spells and helper NPCs with the name Dawnwell in them. Many characters now reference the Sun directly rather than the Sunwell. Not a single NPC, quest, or otherwise refers to the current or past Sunwell as the Dawnwell.

    It's not 100% confirmed, but come on.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Man... I was being facetious with that. I'm choosing to blame Joshua.


    - - - Updated - - -

    The Dawnwell is mentioned right here!!!

  15. #123375
    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuaj View Post
    The Dawnwell is mentioned right here!!!
    As pulled directly from the text on the website which was removed. I promise there isn't a single other reference.

  16. #123376
    Maaaaaannnnn...

  17. #123377
    Quote Originally Posted by rainhard View Post
    I feel like you confuse detail with vistas, a big impressive archetectural marvel is great, but when the zone offers only that and some randomly placed backround it feels underwhelming up close. Especially when these huge structures have no actual content to them and you can just look at it from outside or afar while blitzing through the rest of the zone's randomly placed doodads.

    I will compare two different Dragonflight areas so that you don't think i believe that everything new is worse or anything, the ruby life pools vs Vakathros.

    Spoiler: 
    Starting with the ruby lifepools, they have a crazy amount of effort put in them even in this new trend of dragonriding, i think this proves devs can make equally good points of interests (like undermine) but are not encouraged to since this new form of flying makes most stuff invisible to the average player, starting from the bottom northern side, it is geogrpahically connected well through paths, meaning that it has two -"well dressed" with ruins- roads leading to the starting shore and the obsidian citadel, it also has two dirt roads, one leading to a deadend and the other leading to the river by it and the southern primalist side.

    This side other than the dungeon (which is contained inside the structure) and the quest objectives, has another tight road, almost like a cliff, which above it has some flavour npcs and below it the tuskarr fishing pool area, which itself, on the other side close to the lunker sign has another road up the mountain, between that path there is a cave with a rare/ treasure and little details like birds nesting and two downward riverfalls, one leads you next to an area where lava has collapsed the earth- thanks to some elementals redirecting the flow of the river- and that second stream actually loops back to the ruby life pools, a part of it which seemed a deadend at the start ( yet still contained one of the isles lore tablets called "welcoming the first" and many singing unkillable critters around an ancient dragons bones).

    Now for the lower gardens themselves, it has ton of quests, npcs and doodads that help bring life to the are and tell the story of everyday occurences just from the placement of certain creatures and items, it also has an inn to accomodate the new arivals and a flight path leading to the upper gardens of the lifepools (otherwise inaccessible especially so early in the expansion where dragonriding was a darkmoon seasaw/ glider.)

    From the moment you land on the upper gardens, you are greeted with one of the most beautiful views in the isles where veritistratz also hangs (that cool sidequest guy), behind you is a path leading to the upper gardens, where the main dragonflight eggroosts are located around the structure, these eggs are tended of course and each flight has its own unique tender with dialogue (although even the number of eggs tell a story), hell one is even involved in a main quest, but that is not all because other than the roosts at the edges the area is filled with npcs doing stuff, drakonoid kids zooming around and i think all the starting dragonflight proffesion stands are located here, but as you take a closer loot the structure has a hole in the middle, hosting even more eggs and a seemingly intricate water system leading down to a nicely designed drainage, and although there isnt anything to actually do here and a lot of closed doors (it is used in the dungeon as a boss room and an intermediate break between the rest of the dungeon while also suggesting the structure is hollowed with even more eggs), there is a red whelp gathering of shorts like a pre-school.

    You would think that is all it could possibly contain but no there is also the reds oathstone here, which albeit useless behind it highlights the titans water dam and all the lore implications, but it is not just lore you can find up here, this area also contains a dragonriding rune and a race route, and if you choose to follow it will lead to thaldraszus spa which leads to valdrakken, in a circular area with a titan statue and then further leads to tyrhold and its resevoir, and although tyrhold is a semi irrelevant area with scale and no interior to match, the outdoor content and the halls of infusion dungeon do a well enough job in highlight the contents of tyrhold quite well, and finally, the waterfalls sorrounding tyrhold, seemingly coming from the possibly biggest unnamed mountain in wow, reveal the now melted prison of the incarnates.

    Vakathros on the other hand, the most grand landmark of the azure span, is located in a remote area, away from any real objective, if not for the primalists it would not even have any path to connect it to anything in the span, but what does it provide, well it has a lore tablet but it is so vague it provides little value, the top is part of the fast travel system of the dragon isles, so it has a teleporter for the highest point of the span, the structure itself is nearly drowned in ice spikes, suggesting it contains some kind of tundra. It is so frozen that even the dragon towers have an icy texture where nowhere else is it utilised (which is sad really because it looks amazing from up close and a dragonkin village with that filter would look amazing).

    The bottom of the spire has an area that seemed to be a circular dragonkin base, now frozen and forgotten, with towers overlooking the eastern sea, on the north there is a solid mountain of what once was a waterfall, probably originating from the same mountain as tyholds water supplies, this waterfall leads nowhere on both sides. Now the southern side actually has some things going on, but it is exclusively main story content, the primalists have melted most of the glaciers where there also seemed to contain mostly waterfalls, other than that it just has a dragon glyph to the side and that is it. We never found out the reason the primalists wanted to bust it nor what it contained and probably never will, but that is not the main problem, the problem is that it exists for show, it has no real meat to it.

    We can try to give it extra points by assuming that it is the source of the glaciers but the melting of the southern side has no signs affecting the zone, no lore, no treasures, no rares, and although the glaciers contain some stuff they are mostly barren, ice fishing is cool but so much more to the west its a different part of the zone, there is also a spider cavern close to it with a haunted artifact, but the cave is only used for the side quest. Traversing has no real thought to it other than the assumption we will fly to it. There is a dragon race but also again its quite more western of it, same as some rares.


    This huge text highlighted primarily the visual details of things without mentioning all the treasures and rares that might be part of the zone and its design which absolutely make the gameplay of the open world better too.

    But the main point i am trying to convey is that in this new zone design norm, where dragonriding is supreme, the devs either have little interest in making detailed traversible terrains, with intentionally complimenting doodads and creative interests or the dead distance between them all unfortunately disconnects them from each other is such a way they fall way more flat.
    And honestly after the analysis of those two areas and the existance of Undermine, i am pretty sure the primary reason zones feel off is due to the new standard distance, size and perhaps pace (looking at K'aresh), not the capability of the devs to make quality zones.

    In the end it falls to preference, but liking the old zone design standard (mop to sl) is not weird, especially for the people who interacted with it the most, and unfortunately for me, especially if the majority prefers it now compared to then, the chances of getting zones like Revendreth or Suramar -where all zone areas feel complete enough by themselves by offering flavour from treasures, rares, achievements, the enviroment and items while at the same time connected to each other in smart, cool and creative ways- are low...
    Such a well written and articulated post on the subject and the point just flew over people's heads.

    I do remember being underwhelmed when I finally got to Vakthros because it looked so cool from afar.

  18. #123378
    Why not just destroy the well? Why does it need to be repaired by the power of friendship and communism? I swear, modern blizzard is allergic to giving things consequences.

  19. #123379
    Quote Originally Posted by Reive View Post
    Why not just destroy the well? Why does it need to be repaired by the power of friendship and communism? I swear, modern blizzard is allergic to giving things consequences.
    Why should they? Well is essential to high elves. What with that habit of total destruction of everything someone touch?

  20. #123380
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrophax View Post
    Why should they? Well is essential to high elves. What with that habit of total destruction of everything someone touch?
    What's wrong with wanting things to happen? Making us "lose" would be a good payoff for the build up of Xal'atath of last 2 expansions and would also raise the stakes of the conflict. Midnight was presented as Xal'atath's assault on quel'thalas and as the conflict between light and void. From the leaks, it seems like we're resolving that in just 1 patch because they want us to fuck off to snake island

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