Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Super Dickmann]

I breathe much easier if we do get Midnight Animated Shorts Series but again, we're now just in a masking the problem phase akin to what BFAs Marketing and Saurfang Cinematics did for BFAs mess and trying to get ourselves to 14.0. There's nothing more that can be done at this point.

BFA didn't mask itself in any way, it had the largest spend of all time on cinematics, it had pre-release novellas, a book etc. all to tell the single most atrocious and damaging story in the franchise's history. Mind, I think Shadowlands' reception and production/controversy over Covid is what killed the animation budget, not BFA's reception. The Sadfang Chronicles were bizarrely well received, notwithstanding things that were genuinely good like Daughter of the Sea and the Bald Man's cinematic model was obviously not made so he could peek in for one frame.

[Joshuaj]

Wait, TBC had a main villain? I mean sure the promotion material sets Illidan up but the in game story leading to TBC sets the Legion returning to Outland as the main event and that . . . doesn't lead up to anything other than Kazzak/Doomwalker as raid bosses. TBC makes no sense and is completely sandbox.

As for Cataclysm, I never really understood the story there either from an in game perspective; Deathwing did not seem to have any plan than killing people and mocking Alexstrasza.

The "main villain" was Kil'jaeden.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

BFA didn't mask itself in any way, it had the largest spend of all time on cinematics, it had pre-release novellas, a book etc. all to tell the single most atrocious and damaging story in the franchise's history. Mind, I think Shadowlands' reception and production/controversy over Covid is what killed the animation budget, not BFA's reception. The Sadfang Chronicles were bizarrely well received, notwithstanding things that were genuinely good like Daughter of the Sea and the Bald Man's cinematic model was obviously not made so he could peek in for one frame.

Yes but I meant it moreso from the perspective of ill informed consumers and those who say that World of Warcraft should be nominated for Best Ongoing Game and Best Community Support game, general population who aren't completely up to speed with whats' happening at all times. The risks they are taking right now is they are leaving the issue of these what are some of the most valueable concepts they had and just throwing them in the trash bare naked in front of ALL of their consumers.

[Cheezits]

I think there's some data stuff going on to make each patch its own expansion.

[Super Dickmann]

Wait, TBC had a main villain? I mean sure the promotion material sets Illidan up but the in game story leading to TBC sets the Legion returning to Outland as the main event and that . . . doesn't lead up to anything other than Kazzak/Doomwalker as raid bosses. TBC makes no sense and is completely sandbox.

As for Cataclysm, I never really understood the story there either from an in game perspective; Deathwing did not seem to have any plan than killing people and mocking Alexstrasza.

The TBC main antagonist is the Legion, to whom Illidan is a smoke screen, the title refers to them and the endgame content communicates this point about as coherently as it does why Vashj was involved in stockpiling water like Immortan Joe or whatever Dennis Hopper's character was called in Waterworld, i.e very, very poorly. As for Cataclysm I to this day have absolutely no idea why Deathwing didn't just immediately try to destroy the world, which he can apparently do at will instead of doing whatever he was trying to accomplish in either the launch content or the patch. Be mean to Alex? Put a patsy in charge of the blues?

[Nymrohd]

There's nothing wrong with the in-game story being bad or corrosive but you cannot just deny any form of spend on Animated Shorts, Cinematics and IGCs in these expansion concepts when the premises are so grand and epic. You have to at least showcase some level of mental faculties that you have to give your paypigs some spectacle payoffs with concepts such as fucking Midnight and The Last Titan. Like I just cannot fathom a strict debudgeting where your Intellectual Properties value is risked can occur to this degree but we'll see.

I breathe much easier if we do get Midnight Animated Shorts Series but again, we're now just in a masking the problem phase akin to what BFAs Marketing and Saurfang Cinematics did for BFAs mess and trying to get ourselves to 14.0. There's nothing more that can be done at this point.

I think Microsoft is going to milk us for all we are worth. We will keep getting content, we will have strong retention mechanics and an expanding cash shop. But all that at the minimum investment possible. Maybe Blizzcon will change my mind.

[allegrian]

I don't understand why they called it the world soul saga when the actual titan and world soul stuff feels like the C plot, completely abandoned after the first quests of the TWW intro, and has been basically the Xalatath/Dark Heart saga since then.

The world soul stuff only appeared in the extra lore from TWW weeklies and the leftover Harandar zone, which made it feel even less 'titanic' and doesn't really fit the expansion.

[Super Dickmann]

Yes but I meant it moreso from the perspective of ill informed consumers and those who say that World of Warcraft should be nominated for Best Ongoing Game and Best Community Support game. The risks they are taking right now is they are leaving the issue of these what are some of the most valueable concepts they had and just throwing them in the trash bare naked in front of all their consumers.

The worst thing about launch Midnight and what will damage its reception more than anything and leave the developers scrambling to apply bandaids will have nothing to do with its plot and will have everything to do with addons and class design. Despite their (lack of) plot, DF and TWW were perfectly functional due to content release cadence and class design, which Midnight threatens for no good reason. In turn, housing will be its saving grace from the retention standpoint after some bitching significantly cuts down on furniture prices either by launch or by the first patch.

[Nymrohd]

The TBC main antagonist is the Legion, to whom Illidan is a smoke screen, the title refers to them and the endgame content communicates this point about as coherently as it does why Vashj was involved in stockpiling water like Immortan Joe or whatever Dennis Hopper's character was called in Waterworld, i.e very, very poorly. As for Cataclysm I to this day have absolutely no idea why Deathwing didn't just immediately try to destroy the world, which he can apparently do at will instead of doing whatever he was trying to accomplish in either the launch content or the patch. Be mean to Alex? Put a patsy in charge of the blues?

Was he even involved in the Blue storyline with Arygos and Chromatus?

[Super Dickmann]

Was he even involved in the Blue storyline with Arygos and Chromatus?

He tried to put Arygos in charge instead of Kalec I think, but why he bothered to do this and why he was sane and plotting there and Godzilla in most every other scene I have no idea.

[GeometryWizard]

I don't understand why they called it the world soul saga when the actual titan and world soul stuff feels like the C plot, completely abandoned after the first quests of the TWW intro, and has been basically the Xalatath/Dark Heart saga since then.

The world soul stuff only appeared in the extra lore from TWW weeklies and the leftover Harandar zone, which made it feel even less 'titanic' and doesn't really fit the expansion.

It sounds more epic and cool than what we're actually getting which is just like the weird rivalry between Alleria and Xal'atath. Those two are the only characters to be in every TWW patch and probably part of the reason why the story is just ending so early and abruptly is because it's meant to be a climax for their stories and nobody else. Metzen probably wants to turn Alleria into the Warcraft Kerrigan so in TLT she'll have absorbed all cosmic powers and fly around in space and shoot lasers at Aman'thul while the rest of the world canonically is helpless except for the player characters helping

[Nymrohd]

The worst thing about launch Midnight and what will damage its reception more than anything and leave the developers scrambling to apply bandaids will have nothing to do with its plot and will have everything to do with addons and class design. Despite their (lack of) plot, DF and TWW were perfectly functional due to content release cadence and class design, which Midnight threatens for no good reason. In turn, housing will be its saving grace from the retention standpoint after some bitching significantly cuts down on furniture prices either by launch or by the first patch.

DF has had the most successful complete class redesign in the history of the game. The MoP one had a mixed reception at launch, the Legion one was a disaster for at least a third of the specs and was only tolerated because of the amount of novelty, content and fanservice in Launch. Meanwhile DF came at a time when our trust was very low (not all time low, that was Zereth Mortis) and while the content was not in any way spectacular (imo S1 of DF, both M+ and Raid are just mid), most of the specs worked fine. Some even worked great. As for TWW, S2 of TWW might be one of the best seasons of Warcraft when it comes to gameplay; a top 3 M+ season imo, a solid raid (not a great one but still, solid) and fairly balanced and good gameplay for the significant majority of the specs. Plus you know, Delves giving solo players who are at this point a really big segment of the playerbase a full progression path, augmented beyond what S1 gave.

S1 of Midnight is promising to be a dumpster fire.

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He tried to put Arygos in charge instead of Kalec I think, but why he bothered to do this and why he was sane and plotting there and Godzilla in most every other scene I have no idea.

Been ages, I thought it was all the Twilight Cult. I think he makes a deal with Deathwing in the Tarecgosa quests but in the novel all his interactions are with the Twilight Father.

[Vakir]

Wait, TBC had a main villain? I mean sure the promotion material sets Illidan up but the in game story leading to TBC sets the Legion returning to Outland as the main event and that . . . doesn't lead up to anything other than Kazzak/Doomwalker as raid bosses. TBC makes no sense and is completely sandbox.

As for Cataclysm, I never really understood the story there either from an in game perspective; Deathwing did not seem to have any plan than killing people and mocking Alexstrasza.

And he did a really bad job with killing people and mocking Alex, too.

TBC felt like it was building the Seven Ata'mal Crystals as major macguffins. The smart move to tie everything together would be Illidan was telling Vashj to drain the Zangarmarsh, rather than her doing it for Reasons, and using the intense amounts of mana from Tempest Keep to materialize a new Well of Eternity from which Kil'jaeden would pull himself from as per their deal and invade through the portal.

That would tie everything together, even if it would still be villain batting the Illidari.

Instead we got...gestures broadly at nothing

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Metzen probably wants to turn Alleria into the Warcraft Kerrigan so in TLT she'll have absorbed all cosmic powers and fly around in space and shoot lasers at Aman'thul while the rest of the world canonically is helpless except for the player characters helping

I think this overestimates Metzen. Alleria's role feels extremely unfocused despite her omnipresence and I don't think anywhere near that much intrigue is around her.

I expect him to try to semi-redeem Sargeras, shill Tyr a lot, and potentially remove Illidan's balls again.

[Enrif]

I think there's some data stuff going on to make each patch its own expansion.

making patches as beefy as half of release TWW/MID, but then removing other major patches might be cool, but only if we don't have to pay for them. smaller .5 and .7 patches should still happen, maybe even more like .2, .4, .6 and .8. a big meaty patch every 8ish months, with another smaller patch every 2 months in between.

But i doubt we will see such a departure

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I mean, the WoW Shop can always get more jam packed with stuff so we haven't hit limitations on that yet. I do not see any "Buy Patch" models or "Buy Patch + Patch Collector Editions w/ Patch Themed Armor Sets".

Obviously, I think they are fine with current status quo though and expanding the WoW Shop more over time.

[allegrian]

The problem with "patch-level expansions" is that you can be sold on a expansion theme and story only for it to be dropped in the base patch and cannibalized by another theme. See TWW being the Dwarf expansion to become the goblin and then the ethereal expansion, or Midnight being the blood elf expansion to suddenly be more about amani trolls if the first patch is an amani one as well.

So me, being super hyped for a titan and uludar expansion with TLT, fear that they'll just drop that theme and story before the first content patch, which will propably be about Taunka, maybe drakkari trolls, or on another made up planet entirely.

[Ersula]

The problem with "patch-level expansions" is that you can be sold on a expansion theme and story only for it to be dropped in the base patch and cannibalized by another theme. See TWW being the Dwarf expansion to become the goblin and then the ethereal expansion, or Midnight being the blood elf expansion to suddenly be more about amani trolls if the first patch is an amani one as well.

So me, being super hyped for a titan and uludar expansion with TLT, fear that they'll just drop that theme and story before the first content patch, which will propably be about Taunka, maybe drakkari trolls, or on another made up planet entirely.

Do you really think TWW was sold as "the Dwarf expansion?" It's theme was underground, which K'aresh is a bit of a stretch but its about a planet that was eaten from the inside, so I think that counts.

[milkmustache]

Do you really think TWW was sold as "the Dwarf expansion?" It's theme was underground, which K'aresh is a bit of a stretch but its about a planet that was eaten from the inside, so I think that counts.

K'aresh worked towards the story of the Worldsoul Saga, it being a victim of the Void, but K'aresh didn't work at all towards the underground theme. Undermine worked great.

[Nymrohd]

making patches as beefy as half of release TWW/MID, but then removing other major patches might be cool, but only if we don't have to pay for them. smaller .5 and .7 patches should still happen, maybe even more like .2, .4, .6 and .8. a big meaty patch every 8ish months, with another smaller patch every 2 months in between.

But i doubt we will see such a departure

The thing is, if they wanted to, they could have made Undermine and Tazavesh mini capitals. Shift you entirely out of the launch content.

[allegrian]

Do you really think TWW was sold as "the Dwarf expansion?" It's theme was underground, which K'aresh is a bit of a stretch but its about a planet that was eaten from the inside, so I think that counts.

Just look at the bonus mount and transmog for the digital deluxe edition from TWW. The Login screen and the physical edition have a dwarven design, and the later included a Dwarven Gryphon rider statue. The Main city and the first 2 zones are dwarven, as well as its only new allied race.