Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Darkarath]

Ion himself said his favorite expansion was Legion but it woud probably change during the world soul saga. He said this when TWW was already released iirc, so yeah the director himself was setting either Midnight or TLT as the next Legion, and he was probably refering to Midnight as TLT wouldn't be that far on development yet.

This is the perfect example of the playerbase's hype regarding Midnight for no reason.

That Ion's favourite expansion MIGHT change with Midnight OR The Last Titan, it's just his personal preference. He is not saying that Midnight will be the best expansion ever. This leaving aside that Blizzard just cannot say, for obvious reasons: "Legion is the best expansion of all time and nothing will be better".

They obviously have to hype up whatever comes next.

Ion is trying to sell a product.

Exactly.

[Nymrohd]

This is the perfect example of the playerbase's hype regarding Midnight for no reason.

That Ion's favourite expansion MIGHT change with Midnight OR The Last Titan, it's just his personal preference. He is not saying that Midnight will be the best expansion ever. This leaving aside that Blizzard just cannot say, for obvious reasons: "Legion is the best expansion of all time and nothing will be better".

They obviously have to hype up whatever comes next.



Exactly.

I honestly think Blizzard did expect BfA to be better than Legion. In an alternate reality, it could have been. And they probably knew that WoD would not go well because they knew how much time had been wasted in development.

But I don't see what would make Midnight the best expansion. Probably because it's biggest feature is just an evergreen feature, not a Midnight feature. And the addon change may very well end up being amazing for WoW in the long term but it will be a dumpster fire for release and no one is convincing me otherwise.

[Sondrelk]

The main difference between BfA and Legion (besides the story being more ambitious, and thus prone to fail in BfA). Is that the issues in BfA are intrinsic to the new features. Rather than separate to them, like they were in Legion.

In Legion the main pain points were Artifacts, and Legionaries. Which, whole important to the whole, isn't a massive issue to any one feature.
In BfA meanwhile, each new feature has specific pain points that ruin them individually. Expeditions being time based. Warfronts having too many players. Artifacts being uninteresting.

In Legion there is a miasma permeating everything, that while terrible, doesn't actually ruin any one feature. Whereas in BfA, each time you do something, you are reminded of why it doesn't work.

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I honestly think Blizzard did expect BfA to be better than Legion. In an alternate reality, it could have been. And they probably knew that WoD would not go well because they knew how much time had been wasted in development.

But I don't see what would make Midnight the best expansion. Probably because it's biggest feature is just an evergreen feature, not a Midnight feature. And the addon change may very well end up being amazing for WoW in the long term but it will be a dumpster fire for release and no one is convincing me otherwise.

In theory, BfA is far superior to Legion
An even more iconic location. Legiondaries removed. M+ improved upon. Faction stories, rather than class stories, giving more unique quests for the average, non-altoholic player. Etc.

[Pyrophax]

I honestly think Blizzard did expect BfA to be better than Legion. In an alternate reality, it could have been. And they probably knew that WoD would not go well because they knew how much time had been wasted in development.

But I don't see what would make Midnight the best expansion. Probably because it's biggest feature is just an evergreen feature, not a Midnight feature. And the addon change may very well end up being amazing for WoW in the long term but it will be a dumpster fire for release and no one is convincing me otherwise.

These pink glases are adorable btw. I've been here, in 2016-2017. When there was shitstorms far stronger than now. About AP gring, BoP questline not account-bound, but character specific; random drops of Legendaries. Huge balance issues. bout copypaste artifact storylines. About shared campaign finales. About story, about gameplay, about everything. A
Give it time, after 4-5 years you will see posts about how Midnight was good, on par with Legion and DF, but THIS NEW 15.0 "EXPANSIONNAME" IS UTTER NIGHTMARE SHIT QUALITY. And so on and on.

[Nymrohd]

These pink glases are adorable btw. I've been here, in 2016-2017. When there was shitstorms far stronger than now. About AP gring, BoP questline not account-bound, but character specific; random drops of Legendaries. Huge balance issues. About story, about gameplay, about everything.
Give it time, after 4-5 years you will see posts about how Midnight was good, on par with Legion and DF, but THIS NEW 15.0 "EXPANSIONNAME" IS UTTER NIGHTMARE SHIT QUALITY. And so on and on.

I was here too (I deleted my account at some point, I've been here since the start). There is always a shitstorm about something. People loved Legion when it was current unless they played only the few specs that were complete ass without the proper legendary (so you know, fire mages). Also you cannot compare pre SL responses to current responses because so much of the community is just . . .gone.

[Santandame]

I was here too (I deleted my account at some point, I've been here since the start). There is always a shitstorm about something. People loved Legion when it was current unless they played only the few specs that were complete ass without the proper legendary (so you know, fire mages). Also you cannot compare pre SL responses to current responses because so much of the community is just . . .gone.

You only have to look at this thread to see that. WoD - SL the community in this thread had lots and lots of different, active faces. Nowadays it’s literally just a handful of regulars. More and more have stopped engaging entirely. Others show up sparingly, at this rate, they’ll likely dissipate too.

Midnight announcement at gamescom was a complete shadow of former announcements in terms of activity. The announcement was tepid as tepid could be, and even more have disappeared as a result.

What’s even more telling is that some of these faces were amongst the most diehard of Blizzard defenders during BfA, SL and to an extent, DF. But now I’m seeing some of those be more critical. Of course you still get the almost fanatical like fans that defend it to high heavens regardless of quality but they seem less and less these days.

[Cheezits]

K’aresh is also brought down by what it could have been. With some desire and creativity, it could have been an expansion landmass.

I will never understand this. Outland and Northrend are the only time that flat, one-note land concepts in Warcraft were expanded into large and varied biomes- and I have to say, I still think Northrend visually looks kind of ridiculous, and its lore is bland.

If people hated Shadowlands conceptually for being so divorced from Azeroth, besides it hamfisting Azeroth characters and the biomes being based off things that existed in Azeroth (Spirit Healers/Val'kyr, Nathrezim, Scourge, Emerald Dream)... can you IMAGINE how much they'd have to asspull for K'aresh? Mists level asspulling of races creatures etc and it doesn't have the same connection to Azeroth.

I like Voidstorm's creatures and concepts, particularly the Domanaar, but that is IMO as far as they can go with the Void to make it interesting. I would've loved a K'aresh that is half-intact or semi-intact with proper quests and factions- but a ZONE (or two), not a landmass. The people calling for a Dream expansion, Black Empire expansion, K'aresh expansion etc are out of their minds if they think that it could be done in any way that would make peoples minds remain intact from being so divorced from the world proper.

It's a borderline miracle that Khaz Algar turned out as well considering it's all asspull slop, just tuned incredibly tastefully, and its carried by its ties to existing storylines and races. And I don't understand the critique that Harandar turned out worse by being corrupted by light instead of Black Blood because the Black Blood storyline is godawful Nightmare v5 down to its terrible, uncreative aesthetics.

[Santandame]

I will never understand this. Outland and Northrend are the only time that flat, one-note land concepts in Warcraft were expanded into large and varied biomes- and I have to say, I still think Northrend visually looks kind of ridiculous, and its lore is bland.

Isn’t this the case for the Broken Isles and the Dragon Isles as well?

The Broken Isles prior to Legion was just the Broken Shore and similar smaller rocky isles surrounding it. The Dragon Isles as well was just an island featuring an Old God styled temple that was later repurposed into the Shrine of Storms in Stormsong.

There’s plenty that could have been done with K’aresh with some creativity and imagination,

[Cheezits]

Isn’t this the case for the Broken Isles and the Dragon Isles as well?

The Broken Isles prior to Legion was just the Broken Shore and similar smaller rocky isles surrounding it. The Dragon Isles as well was just an island featuring an Old God styled temple that was later repurposed into the Shrine of Storms in Stormsong.

There’s plenty that could have been done with K’aresh with some creativity and imagination,

Dragon Isles never made it into game so I am not counting that, and its existing concept was used for something else entirely (Shrine of the Storm). I also don't like the continent at all as it's just a giant Dragonblight with some really shitty cultures tacked on the fringes IMO.

Broken Isles is creative, yes... but besides Suramar and Valsharah I don't think it's that great either.

Regardless of my opinions both islands are based off things on Azeroth and elaborate on them, which is a win. Dream/BE/K'aresh would be too divorced, though I can see some potential in a landmass that has chunks based off Aqiri survivors (Mantid, Kthir, Qiraji, Cthraxi instead of Nerubians) in very distinct environments. Then again that's not exactly a 'Black Empire' expansion.

I do think that's also the most likely thing we may get in the future. Also the one I want as it is -still- a huge waste of potential that Azj'Kahet was Nerubians instead of Qiraji... who are RIGHT next to Khaz Algar.

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Also, here's some actual speculation for the speculation thread:

https://xcancel.com/TheRedShirtGuy/s...539515507077#m

The "Darkspear Amani" have been added to Zul'aman but ONLY as "Elders".. because they are so much smaller/weaker looking. So they are not intended to just be a replacement for normal Amani. I think this plus the upcoming raid points toward them being very likely intended to be playable after all.

[LoreSeeker]

Sorry for the wait, new account restrictions are fun, been using this site since TBC just never needed to post. Not a troll, i just cant post files as a new account, i did try post a summary but it also needed mod approval. I ended up accidently trying to post it 3 times in this thread.

Audio files are easy enough to find with wow export

[Enrif]

Also, here's some actual speculation for the speculation thread:

https://xcancel.com/TheRedShirtGuy/s...539515507077#m

The "Darkspear Amani" have been added to Zul'aman but ONLY as "Elders".. because they are so much smaller/weaker looking. So they are not intended to just be a replacement for normal Amani. I think this plus the upcoming raid points toward them being very likely intended to be playable after all.

i hope so. The green skin darkspears are quite lacking to fullfill the forest troll fantasy. But. do we have any inkling how the amani would be added? Neutral or horde only?

[Cheezits]

Sorry for the wait, new account restrictions are fun, been using this site since TBC just never needed to post. Not a troll, i just cant post files as a new account, i did try post a summary but it also needed mod approval. I ended up accidently trying to post it 3 times in this thread.

Audio files are easy enough to find with wow export

I sent you a PM (unsure if new accounts can reply), if you send the summary to me I will post.

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i hope so. The green skin darkspears are quite lacking to fullfill the forest troll fantasy. But. do we have any inkling how the amani would be added? Neutral or horde only?

I am thinking Horde only. There is enough wiggle room with the Dawnwell and the Helf involvement to add them as an Alliance AR, or it will be something tied to 11.2. Also, the Isle of Quel'danas doesn't look like it will be receiving world quest content, so maybe it will be a starting zone for an AR as it has its own section on the map.

If 11.1 is about saving Zul'aman from Ula'tek it will primarily be about the various trolls plus maybe Liadrin and Orweyna helping them, so very little room for them to have Alliance support in the story.

[Enrif]

I am thinking Horde only. There is enough wiggle room with the Dawnwell and the Helf involvement to add them as an Alliance AR, or it will be something tied to 11.2. Also, the Isle of Quel'danas doesn't look like it will be receiving world quest content, so maybe it will be a starting zone for an AR as it has its own section on the map.

If 11.1 is about saving Zul'aman from Ula'tek it will primarily be about the various trolls plus maybe Liadrin and Orweyna helping them, so very little room for them to have Alliance support in the story.

If high elves will come, a lot of people will lose their minds, but they make the most sense with forest trolls.

I hope we get some Talanji and perhaps even Vol'jin with the troll patch. About time that they make another appearance.

[Cheezits]

I hope we get some Talanji and perhaps even Vol'jin with the troll patch. About time that they make another appearance.

They make the most sense to appear as the elf plot wraps up at launch, and only Liadrin assists them in any serious way during questing. Talanji/Zandalari were accidentally mentioned during the expansion reveal (similar to the Dawnwell) and Shadra appears reborn during questing- a loa that went into regeneration at the same time as Vol'jin.

[Enrif]

btw, new look for the wretched? Just the standard belf model now?



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They make the most sense to appear as the elf plot wraps up at launch, and only Liadrin assists them in any serious way during questing. Talanji/Zandalari were accidentally mentioned during the expansion reveal (similar to the Dawnwell) and Shadra appears reborn during questing- a loa that went into regeneration at the same time as Vol'jin.

were zandalari mentioned? i missed that. But it makes the most sense. Liadrin should really use her contacts in the horde and get some troll experts in this.

[Super Dickmann]

Sorry for the wait, new account restrictions are fun, been using this site since TBC just never needed to post. Not a troll, i just cant post files as a new account, i did try post a summary but it also needed mod approval. I ended up accidently trying to post it 3 times in this thread.

Audio files are easy enough to find with wow export

Cheers for the explanation. On the one hand, the new well being weaker and closer to the Arcan'dor in cutting off addiction does add some consequence to the story. On the other, the Arcan'dor itself was always a copout in what was otherwise a better iteration of the TBC Blood Elf story, as the blood elves still being junkies, just with their fix handled was one of the few more interesting choices in TBC compared to the wholesale removal of addiction for the Nightborne.

[Magistrate]

They make the most sense to appear as the elf plot wraps up at launch, and only Liadrin assists them in any serious way during questing. Talanji/Zandalari were accidentally mentioned during the expansion reveal (similar to the Dawnwell) and Shadra appears reborn during questing- a loa that went into regeneration at the same time as Vol'jin.

Do you know if talanji will be in 12.0 in harrandar? She was originally datamined in tww when they were going to go harder on harronir stuff and that didn't happen.

[Cheezits]

Do you know if talanji will be in 12.0 in harrandar? She was originally datamined in tww when they were going to go harder on harronir stuff and that didn't happen.

She isn't. They may tie the Haranir into 12.1 and make it the official time to reveal they were Dark Trolls, as Orweyna doesn't seem to have much to do with the Dawnwell stuff and all their troll ties were either removed from launch or didn't make it in (Chimaerus being a 'loa')

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Cheers for the explanation. On the one hand, the new well being weaker and closer to the Arcan'dor in cutting off addiction does add some consequence to the story. On the other, the Arcan'dor itself was always a copout in what was otherwise a better iteration of the TBC Blood Elf story, as the blood elves still being junkies, just with their fix handled was one of the few more interesting choices in TBC compared to the wholesale removal of addiction for the Nightborne.

Wait, did the summary get posted somewhere?

NVM, here it is:

SPOILERS - this is my paraphrasing of several fragmented audio files, also could easily be old storylines or mistakes on my part.


Post Voidspire questline leading to Darkwell
Arathor suggests recruiting the scattered elven tribes after the Darkwell defeats the Vanguard of the Light, - the High Elves of the Silver Covenant are convinced to finally be allowed back into Silvermoon and bring Sunstrider artifacts, crown and law book, as a peace offering and reminder of their late King who they all still respect - Silver Covenant and Sunreavers combine begrudgingly, and but still hate each other but do it out of loyalty to King Anasterian's legacy.
Next is Nightborne are recruited after saving them from void forces stealing their mana, finally the Night Elves - Shandris agrees without conditions to aid the Blood Elves, surprising Lor'themar, but expresses a disappointment in the Blood Elves still needing a well of power and request it be not re- empowered if they help cleanse it. Maiev is angry about now 3 times the Sunwell has been a target that has threatened the world and those mana addicts need to sort themselves out.

Darkwell's Future -
The leaked igc models are the different elves infusing the Darkwell with the fruit, void crystal (to refocus the void energies, rommath is mad about it) and Anasterian crown and Vial of Moonwell water, no audio but assuming Liadrin does holy. This balances the well and Liadrin calls it a new beginning not a Sunwell but a Dawnwell that will be a symbol as it now shifts between the Sun and Moon and Holy and Shadow . Also its mentioned by Rommath that the Sunwell is depowered greatly and will take them a while to get used to being without its power.

Xal's Goal
Xal after the corruption of the Sunwell into the Darkwell, not much seems to happen regarding the devouring host attacking or taking over. Umbric and Rommath dicuss that attacking the surface doesnt seem to be her goal and discover the Darkwell burrowing into the world and sending Xal's army and power deep into the planet.

TL;DR Vanguard of Light gets wrecked, Helf/Belf beef healed somewhat but they still hate each other, Dawnwell shifts between Sun/Moon/Holy/Shadow which pisses off Rommath, (and Maiev lmao), Xal is going for the Worldsoul after all and heading underground

Sooooo maybe Worldcore is a Midnight thing after all?

Very interested in what happens to the Vanguard now. Red Dawn boutta pop off?

[milkmustache]

Do you know if talanji will be in 12.0 in harrandar? She was originally datamined in tww when they were going to go harder on harronir stuff and that didn't happen.

IIRC, it wasn't a datamine but instead a screenshot from the reveal at Blizzcon, with the idea that she was standing in as a placeholder for the Haranir.

[Sondrelk]

TL;DR Vanguard of Light gets wrecked, Dawnwell shifts between Sun/Moon/Holy/Shadow which pisses off Rommath, (and Maiev lmao), Xal is going for the Worldsoul after all and heading underground

Sooooo maybe Worldcore is a Midnight thing after all?

One has to assume that is where it is going.

Not sure why they are giving the perfect excuse for an underground expansion AFTER they just finished one, but I guess the developers really want to milk underground zones for a while.