Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Vakir]

However, the suspicious North EK loading screen with Atal'Utek DOES have a skybeam.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/s/BamkGMkS06

Ehh. I can accept that image if it's just the Sunwell being the Sunwell, that was a thing in TBC.

If it's an overindulgent pillar of importance I'm gonna roll my eyes.

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Then you are going to be disappointed because the biggest problem with wanting a pristine Quel'thals is not the Voidstorm, it's the Lightbloom

A sub zone area is fine. A permanent skybox that's not the status quo seen from everywhere is lame.

[Nymrohd]

A sub zone area is fine. A permanent skybox that's not the status quo seen from everywhere is lame.

It's a lot of Eversong though.

[Vakir]

It's a lot of Eversong though.

Not enough to bug me, personally. I get YMMV. The main POIs are mostly OK and it doesn't mess with the experience and fantasy of the majority of the zone.

As far as whether the content drought/shortening being a lie or an excuse or a misuse of resources - I think I can just say regardless of what is true, I can accept a slow down in content cadence at the tail of an expansion again if it means a better launch.

But that's an if.

[Joshuaj]

Then you are going to be disappointed because the biggest problem with wanting a pristine Quel'thals is not the Voidstorm, it's the Lightbloom

I mean, the Lightbloom at least looks like it fits in the land the ETERNAL SPRING, even if unnatural

[Cheezits]

As far as whether the content drought/shortening being a lie or an excuse or a misuse of resources - I think I can just say regardless of what is true, I can accept a slow down in content cadence at the tail of an expansion again if it means a better launch.

But that's an if.

I'm only going to dislike this new structure if 12.1/12.2 is as poor as K'aresh. I only hope K'aresh is the outlier as it clearly seems to be an emergency patch that was never meant to exist.

If the new idea is that each expansion will have a crappy rushed major patch, no thanks.

[Joshuaj]

Also, the Lightbloom isn't in that much of Eversong. It's in bits of the zone, but it's not nearly enough to ruin the overall vibe of the area.

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Heck, the Lightbloom doesn't even effect the general Eversong skybox. The Voidstorm does.

[Nymrohd]

Btw I do hope the uninstanced version of Magister's Terrace gets populated. Place is gorgeous and massive. That library is amazing.

[Vakir]

I'm only going to dislike this new structure if 12.1/12.2 is as poor as K'aresh. I only hope K'aresh is the outlier as it clearly seems to be an emergency patch that was never meant to exist.

If the new idea is that each expansion will have a crappy rushed major patch, no thanks.

I didn't hate K'aresh, but I did absolutely despise the Eco questline.

It's literally just self sabotage at a certain point. Even if it's technically less content to keep people slamming their brains with dopamine, it's an actively better experience to cut 60-70% of the quests.

For nerds that like Defunctland, it reminds me of Superstar Limo - something so bad that doing literally nothing is a better guest experience than riding it.

Sometimes less is more. Or not at all.

[GeometryWizard]

All the talk about past expac trends you can just look at the sub chart Blizzard themselves made last year. Legion was the last expansion before Classic came out and is the blueprint for the modern patch cadence with it being 77 days instead of 60 and ditching 3 .7 patches for a major .3 patch instead but you can still see the subs following the same trend of decline as usual. That had to be very sobering for them that it didn't matter how much effort they put into patch content but it brings up the question of why DF and apparently TWW have better retention with only a little faster cycle but lower quality and I think the boring answer is that the trading post probably keeps a chunk of people subbed all year even if they don't play often. Delves too probably contributed a lot but it's impossible to truly compare the numbers with Classic and how big China is now

I think Nymrohd is 100% right that the main problem is them making bad decisions from the start and having to spend dev time redoing them. Bfa's systems were heavily flawed from the start and they had to basically redo Azerite in a major patch and just gave up on warfronts altogether and I bet that contributed to why 8.2 felt so much bigger than either patch around it. You can even see it now with them already having to spend time rewriting quests because they did a poor job the first time around and now it's coming in the form of the addon apocalypse which is probably going to take months upon months to begin fixing since they're rushing it so fast and it'll inevitably harm content quality

The biggest tell for whether TWW was a fluke or not is how Midnight's minor patches will go IMO. If 12.0.5 and 12.0.7 look like this:

Tuskarr Feasts Revisited
Another Bfa island expedition map with daily quests
Island Expeditions Revisited Reforged
Dragonflight Timewalking

Then it's safe to say they prioritize content cadence over everything else and we're basically back to Bfa cadence but with reheated slop in between patches

[Cheezits]

The biggest tell for whether TWW was a fluke or not is how Midnight's minor patches will go IMO. If 12.0.5 and 12.0.7 look like this:

Tuskarr Feasts Revisited
Another Bfa island expedition map with daily quests
Horrific Visions Revisited Reforged
Dragonflight Timewalking

Then it's safe to say they prioritize content cadence over everything else and we're basically back to Bfa cadence but with reheated slop in between patches

With the set up for Atal'Utek, which seemingly has both a raid and a dungeon and may not even be the only landmass of the patch, I'm at least confident on the front half of this expansion. But we'll see how hard they drop the ball. I think a minor patch that has nothing but housing content (ie mounts, npcs and pets in your house) is scarily possible.

[micwini]

All the talk about past expac trends you can just look at the sub chart Blizzard themselves made last year. Legion was the last expansion before Classic came out and is the blueprint for the modern patch cadence with it being 77 days instead of 60 and ditching 3 .7 patches for a major .3 patch instead but you can still see the subs following the same trend of decline as usual. That had to be very sobering for them that it didn't matter how much effort they put into patch content but it brings up the question of why DF and apparently TWW have better retention with only a little faster cycle but lower quality and I think the boring answer is that the trading post probably keeps a chunk of people subbed all year even if they don't play often. Delves too probably contributed a lot but it's impossible to truly compare the numbers with Classic and how big China is now

I think Nymrohd is 100% right that the main problem is them making bad decisions from the start and having to spend dev time redoing them. Bfa's systems were heavily flawed from the start and they had to basically redo Azerite in a major patch and just gave up on warfronts altogether and I bet that contributed to why 8.2 felt so much bigger than either patch around it. You can even see it now with them already having to spend time rewriting quests because they did a poor job the first time around and now it's coming in the form of the addon apocalypse which is probably going to take months upon months to begin fixing since they're rushing it so fast and it'll inevitably harm content quality

The biggest tell for whether TWW was a fluke or not is how Midnight's minor patches will go IMO. If 12.0.5 and 12.0.7 look like this:

Tuskarr Feasts Revisited
Another Bfa island expedition map with daily quests
Horrific Visions Revisited Reforged
Dragonflight Timewalking

Then it's safe to say they prioritize content cadence over everything else and we're basically back to Bfa cadence but with reheated slop in between patches

Retention is better because there's less people playing. Retention numbers is something you share when things go bad, but still want to pretend things are good. It is the only number that can go up when overall interest is down. It is easier to retain a smaller base than a large one. Especially with wow where you have a small core that will always play regardless.

[GeometryWizard]

Retention is better because there's less people playing. Retention numbers is something you share when things go bad, but still want to pretend things are good. It is the only number that can go up when overall interest is down.

The problem is the numbers are obfuscated and can't be compared now because of Classic and Chinese servers and there is also the elephant in the room that it doesn't matter how well WoW or CoD does when Microsoft currently wants out of gaming altogether and is so obsessed with AI that they don't even view Windows as important anymore and the CEO thinks it's going to be gone by 2035

[Vakir]

Retention is better because there's less people playing. Retention numbers is something you share when things go bad, but still want to pretend things are good. It is the only number that can go up when overall interest is down. It is easier to retain a smaller base than a large one. Especially with wow where you have a small core that will always play regardless.

The chart in question is a rolling average of subscribers, though, no?

[Cheezits]

Housing is their big gamble to get new players interested, likely because you need no onboarding to want to fill pretty house. We'll see if TLT has a gamble to get old players back, or if they are just not really focused on that.

[Vakir]

there is also the elephant in the room that it doesn't matter how well WoW or CoD does when Microsoft currently wants out of gaming altogether and is so obsessed with AI that they don't even view Windows as important anymore and the CEO thinks it's going to be gone by 2035

It's not even obsession, it's a lot of smoke and mirrors to justify a money pit of nothing to trick investors. Because of infinite line goes up bullshit, they need to constantly justify new product but can't actually produce anything, so we get to have Potential Man and also actively enshittify things even faster to pretend they are improving things.

The money got tricked so now they want other companies to invest in their dogshit idea.

[micwini]

The problem is the numbers are obfuscated and can't be compared now because of Classic and Chinese servers and there is also the elephant in the room that it doesn't matter how well WoW or CoD does when Microsoft currently wants out of gaming altogether and is so obsessed with AI that they don't even view Windows as important anymore and the CEO thinks it's going to be gone by 2035

He can still change his mind in the coming years

The chart in question is a rolling average of subscribers, though, no?

I was specifically responding to "...but it brings up the question of why DF and apparently TWW have better retention with only a little faster cycle but lower quality...".
If things were going better they'd use numbers like "X amount of new players" or just the good ol subscriber count. There is a reason that you can't see exact numbers on that one graph from the convention. And that graph is also kind of pointless, because they just look at total subscribers, but not at what versions are being played

[Vakir]

And that graph is also kind of pointless, because they just look at total subscribers, but not at what versions are being played

Pointless for us, but, sadly, probably not as important to them. Retail will have a base no matter what with the right amount of cosmetics and M+ seasons to attract the faithful even if it's outright terrible.

As long as the gross number across all modes is decent, they're probably fine, and of course China can't get enough of it.

[micwini]

Pointless for us, but, sadly, probably not as important to them. Retail will have a base no matter what with the right amount of cosmetics and M+ seasons to attract the faithful even if it's outright terrible.

As long as the gross number across all modes is decent, they're probably fine, and of course China can't get enough of it.

I mean if one mode is way more popular, you'd want to know that right? As to put more focus on it. I feel like currently for the total numbers, classic is vastly underestimated, mostly because of the China playerbase.

[Joshuaj]

So, here is the gist
Amirdrassil: Life and Death
Dawnwell: Light and Shadow
???: Order and Disorder (May occur in TLT or a future expansion)
Seems Azeroth is getting landmarks that represent the balances of the respective Cosmic dualities
Makes me wonder if there will be something for the Elements as well, or nah?
Either way, this doesn't mean the forces won't be focused on in the future (Lightbound, Arathi Empire, Watcher heretics, The Dreadlords and Denathrius, the Demons and their stuff, the stuff on Outland, Azshara with the Void, etc are all examples of potential future plot-points regarding the forces), but it does kinda seem to climax the clash between the cosmic dualities a bit

Makes me wonder if there will be something for the Elements as well, or nah?
Either way, this doesn't mean the forces won't be focused on in the future (Lightbound, Arathi Empire, Watcher heretics, The Dreadlords and Denathrius, the Demons and their stuff, the stuff on Outland, Azshara with the Void, etc are all examples of potential future plot-points regarding the forces), but it does kinda seem to climax the clash between the cosmic dualities a bit

[Vakir]

I mean if one mode is way more popular, you'd want to know that right? As to put more focus on it.

It may just as easily be the squeaky wheel getting the grease. After all, things seemed to slow on Classic content and they used an entire ass Boston acquisition to do housing.

On the other hand, China. So much stuff for China. But I believe that's due to an agreement from Netease and they may otherwise would not have done quite as much.