I no longer reply to quotations beyond if you're asking a genuine question or have a non-confrontational stance.


Larry just says shit and power scaling is pointless and lame even when someone isn't just spewing nonsense.
As someone who have experienced many stories from comics, shows, anime, manga etc etc.
Xal'atath is nearing her end because of her crazed reaction to the power she seeks in one of the newest scenes after opening the portal. Usually when a villain goes all crazy looking like that, it means that's it for them as they have shown us their ultimate plan already. She's a powerful and great villain, stronger than Baby Argus, Zovaal, Dimensius, and even Kil'jaeden but it's time she gets replaced by even stronger villains in the Last Titan or even later in Midnight.
2/9/26 power level update - Sargeras > Pantheon Titan > Galakronk > Chromatus >Worldbreaker Deathwing(HS) > Herald Azshara (HS) > Herald Ragnaros (HS) > Herald Al'Akir (HS) > Herald Cho'Ghall (HS) > Herald Onyxia (HS) > Midnight Xal'atath > N'zoth > Dimensius > Argus > Zovaal > Lich King > Archimonde > Kil'jaeden > Lei Shen
I'm pretty certain that the return of the Dagger was mostly a Steve Danuser thing, I don't think the Dagger will make an appearance, but then again 12.1 sounds really strange but I genuinely doubt that. Either way, I think they're done with the Void as a narrative element and they're trying to return to a much more Azeroth-centric view Post-World Soul Saga.
Of course, nothing is certain and for all we know the World Soul is not dealt with in the World Soul Saga. I'm not exactly holding out hope that much more considering our narrative woes and questionable decisionmaking.
I no longer reply to quotations beyond if you're asking a genuine question or have a non-confrontational stance.

"Return of the dagger"
It was used once to stop N'Zoth (Which failed), and now it's either empty or destroyed.
Y'all overhyped something that wasn't meant to be of much importance.
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"And even Kil'jaeden"
You say this like he's stronger than Dimensius and Argus...
He's not. Not even close.
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Ahhh, I see the problem now.
Agreed, that is why i liked the war within delves, like the Sidestreet Sluice in undermine for example hit an aesthetic missing in the open world and really making you feel you are under a city like undermine, or The sinkhole before they decided to remove the water and every aquatic flavour it had, it really made you wonder how deep this undersea is and what resides within it.

If it helps, videos like this explain the Azathoth situation well.
Definitely done with pure void stuff after the saga or even as early as late Midnight. I do think more Azeroth focus stuff could return but there would be a big focus on transcendent being aka characters with multiple forces within them. People like Azshara and Hakkar could return and they could be even stronger than cosmic threats without going the cosmic route because of their own motive. Like Azshara and Hakkar won't be trying to consume everything but rather rule Azeroth. Azshara with the power of the Umbral Veil as her servant stated will be beyond all. Hakkar the blood god will grow to infinite power by all the bloodshed throughout the expansions. But their goals will be focus on Azeroth. So they could kick Argus, Zovaal, Dimensisues, and even Xal'atath's asses without the story being out of Azeroth's focus.
Blood trolls and Naga returns along with the Arathi Empire as the new ally faction for the Horde and Alliance. Old gods returning too if they aren't for the Last Titan.
2/9/26 power level update - Sargeras > Pantheon Titan > Galakronk > Chromatus >Worldbreaker Deathwing(HS) > Herald Azshara (HS) > Herald Ragnaros (HS) > Herald Al'Akir (HS) > Herald Cho'Ghall (HS) > Herald Onyxia (HS) > Midnight Xal'atath > N'zoth > Dimensius > Argus > Zovaal > Lich King > Archimonde > Kil'jaeden > Lei Shen

This also helps.
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Again, it's not exact to the Progenitors, but I can totally see the influence.
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Huh, my Midnight Beta's updating. Neat. Turned out to be nothing.
Last edited by Joshuaj; 2025-12-05 at 05:52 PM.
Heard from a friend of a friend take it worth a grain of salt.
Last Titan development already making good progress. Most of Borean tundra is under the ocean from naga and primalists working together. The remaining zone is combined with Sholozar Basin. Similar is the case with Howling Fjord and Grizzly Hills being combined and being ruled over by a titan keeper uniting the vrykul and remaining iron dwarves which will serve as the starting experience. Dragonblight will mostly deal with primalists and some returning Dragonflight characters. Zul'drak will involve a character from Zul'aman coming with us and confronting their even more brutal cousins in the north. Icecrown will be combined with Crystalsong and will deal with undead warlords and arcane magicc. Stormpeaks will be in a fierce winter storm that will prevent players from entering it at launch.
Mounts will undergo minor changes. Mount equipment will be removed and built into ground mounts to always have waterwalking and no daze to give them a bonus versus flying mounts. The first patch zone will include a lot of verticalality and wallclimbing with ground mounts will be a thing.
The new class is Artificer which will be a blend of technology and titan magic available to all classes. Dagran will be the major Artificer character in the expansion having learned somethings from the archives in Dornogol. It can dps/tank/heal and uses a bunch of technology in combat and abilities that summon non-controlled minions (think demo lock without the main pet) calling on turrets and medic drones.
New shaman spec will be Earthwarder that will be represented through Thrall who is ready to crack some skulls. It will be focused on earth, frost and fire sharing a hero spec with enhance and restoration. New race/class combos include kul tiran, night elf, highmountain tauren and undead paladins. The undead paladin lore will be seeded in later in Midnight with Calia Menethil forming an organization of paladins for Lordaeron that have both undead and living paladins mostly ex-scarlet crusade who regret their choices. Derek Proudmoore will pursue this path to better serve Calia.
The major class feature for TLT is basically limit breaks from FF14. With the stakes being raised in TLT they want to show that through gameplay. This will vary from class to class and have different effects. Examples are druids invoking the wild gods, priests summoning a naaru, evokers call in a dragons and the demon hunters call in a strike from the Fel Hammer.
First raid tier will include two raids. A titan-themed raid with Odyn as the final boss but unlike Midnight the 1-boss raid will be the true final boss of the tier. This will be Chromatus who primalists sabotage the prison in the Nexus.
They are working better on building up the final boss of the second tier for an expansion. Iridikron is not the main antagonist but he and his primalists will be a threat during some of the questlines at launch with Thrall being a rival of sorts. The first major patch zone will be underground and can be accessed from multiple zones later on underneath Northrend where the raid with Iridikron will be and the primalist leader Magatha Grimtotem. No word on what is after the first patch.

Dagran is unfortunately a logical continuation of Arator.
Last edited by AOL Instant Messenger; 2025-12-05 at 07:03 PM.
Nice to see a return to the old Totally Real(tm) leaks.
Why would ground mounts be given buffs without a reason to not just use flight mounts? We could assume a return to no flying, or Prey already being seen as such a massive success they are deepenening it with no flying. But that feels like a stretch at this point.
Don't really see why Dagran would be an Artificer, but sure, why not.
Earthwarder Tank spec as well, because why not. And the return of Thrall as a shaman, despite him seemingly having given up on that completely.
Limit Breaks sounds terrible. And like a worse version of Apex Talents.
A return to Chromatus for some reason. Would possibly be a better choice than just offing Iridikron immediately, but sure.
13.1 being Harrowsdeep is a decent choice though. Even if it would somewhat clash with Storm Peaks not being available immediately. Doing something that drastic sounds like it would immedaitely conjure up images of the horrors of WoD and Tanaan Jungle.
The world revamp dream will never die!

Yog-Sothoth is my favorite part of Lovecraft's mythology, especially as portrayed in Through the Gate of the Silver Key, so it's especially unfortunate to see him lobbed around in the context of banal powerscaling.
All descended lines of beings of the finite dimensions, continued the waves, and all stages of growth in each one of these beings, are merely manifestations of one archetypal and eternal being in the space outside dimensions. Each local being—son, father, grandfather, and so on—and each stage of individual being—infant, child, boy, young man, old man—is merely one of the infinite phases of that same archetypal and eternal being, caused by a variation in the angle of the consciousness-plane which cuts it.The first video you linked was better, I'm not a fan of the Apu avatar posting Dragonball clips. The Platonic metaphysics is really interesting.The archetypes, throbbed the waves, are the people of the ultimate abyss—formless, ineffable, and guessed at only by rare dreamers on the low-dimensioned worlds. Chief among such was this informing BEING itself . . . which indeed was Carter’s own archetype. The glutless zeal of Carter and all his forbears for forbidden cosmic secrets was a natural result of derivation from the SUPREME ARCHETYPE. On every world all great wizards, all great thinkers, all great artists, are facets of IT.
To be fair, that breed of pure cosmic horror as a whole is kind of a product of early 20th century hysteria. I'm strongly of the belief that true cosmic horror is pretty dead and any efforts to revive it are hopeless and unnecessary. Through the Gate of the Silver Key was honestly more interesting with its Platonic metaphysics (though, granted, that was actually a collaboration and I think Lovecraft may not have come up with that idea) than real cosmic horror could be, and Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath and Shadow over Innsmouth are pieces solely from the man himself that kind of refute the purer cosmic horror he's associated with, with the latter ironically containing one of the best refutations of "true" cosmic horror as a genre and a genuinely favorite quote of mine overall:
It may have been meant in the context of the protagonist going insane (though, given Lovecraft eventually found a bit of a sense of humor about his Welsh ancestry, there's a legitimate chance he was being sincere with this part and reflecting his own coming to terms), but it's stuck with me and I think it's a more interesting message than real cosmic horror can offer.So far I have not shot myself as my uncle Douglas did. I bought an automatic and almost took the step, but certain dreams deterred me. The tense extremes of horror are lessening, and I feel queerly drawn toward the unknown sea-deeps instead of fearing them. I hear and do strange things in sleep, and awake with a kind of exaltation instead of terror. I do not believe I need to wait for the full change as most have waited. If I did, my father would probably shut me up in a sanitarium as my poor little cousin is shut up. Stupendous and unheard-of splendours await me below, and I shall seek them soon. Iä-R’lyeh! Cthulhu fhtagn! Iä! Iä! No, I shall not shoot myself—I cannot be made to shoot myself!
Last edited by AOL Instant Messenger; 2025-12-05 at 07:39 PM.

It is, and in that same way it's a product of the time and place it's from in the same capacity anything else is. But my point is that Warcraft cosmic horror is not only easily combatible but has tangible motives and will not just make them clear but will "gra-ha-ha" them to you in grand gestures. The only thing different about them is the color and model you're hitting and that there's a reverb filter on their marginally more florid dialogue. Also, there is a sanity meter mechanic, and you get mind controlled rather than shitting yourself and slamming your head 52 times into a wall.
The closest thing to a genuine paradigm breaking revelation from anything Old God adjacent is the curse of flesh, and those impacted by it respond to it with all the urgency and terror of someone getting diagnosed with easily reversible pre-diabetes.
There's a way to do modern takes per your examples, even if I'd doubt Blizzard's ability to without the sappy pandering of the current direction, but my point is even a competent and fresh direction is done in by the same way Blizzard handles any conflict.
It's Mission 7 of the Night Elf campaign in Reign of Chaos, or Tassadar nuking the Hive Mind if you prefer. Again and again and again and again.
All sounds great besides the new shaman and dagran part.
I do think the stakes would be raised so I can see this surpassing the Legion threat as the biggest threat WoW has ever faced. Many factions being involved would make sense from Naarus, wild gods, elemental lords etc etc. We should be fighting the most powerful beings in the lore aka either Prime Titans or Prime old gods as both are at the absolute top only behind Sargeras.
Chromatus coming in finally would be awesome as he's more powerful than Deathwing, Zovaal, Argus, Dimensius, and even Kil'Jaeden and Archimonde. I can also see Galakrond coming in if they're bringing Chromatus in. Imagine a epic showdown between both of them.
You need to have some hope cause there's plenty of other characters they could easily put in besides him. We still got Yrel, Azshara, Elisande, Titan Keepers, Aegywnn, Medivh, Veersa, Sylvanas, Thrall etc others they could use. I don't think they'll push Dagran as he already has his spotlight somewhat in The War Within.
There could be totally new characters like Nerubian Remnants and Drakaari Trolls they could use. Maybe something from the naga, a naga humanoid hybrid as a new playable force.
2/9/26 power level update - Sargeras > Pantheon Titan > Galakronk > Chromatus >Worldbreaker Deathwing(HS) > Herald Azshara (HS) > Herald Ragnaros (HS) > Herald Al'Akir (HS) > Herald Cho'Ghall (HS) > Herald Onyxia (HS) > Midnight Xal'atath > N'zoth > Dimensius > Argus > Zovaal > Lich King > Archimonde > Kil'jaeden > Lei Shen

Yeah, I was a bit iffy on using the second vid, but I felt it neat if you wanted a more simplistic rundown on things. Webcamparrot's video is far more in-depth though.
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I mean, I can see this being the case in actuality, but I'm not gonna believe this leak, simply for a few reasons:
1. No mentions of the Titans themselves?
And 2. It's too early lol
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Midnight ain't even out proper yet

True enough, that was unnecessary pedantry on my part and probably off-topic. N'Zoth suffered especially hard from this, since C'Thun and Yogg-Saron at least had some semblance of an alien or horror-based nature and N'Zoth was just another big deep-voiced guy with minimal personality in every scene except the one where he was a dying fish. Everything about him was way too anthropomorphized—it could've been done right if it were leaned into like with Nyarlathotep, who was humanlike and even had his own embarrassing moment of waving his fist like Dr. Claw in Dream-Quest, but it was never really utilized and I think even as little as his voice-acting would've made it difficult (not shittalking the VA, more the probable direction).
I think some of my favorite bits of how much N'Zoth sucked are the following two quotes:
"With every choice, you become more my servant."Hands up, I'm impressed with this absolute slop. Even putting aside it's an eldritch abomination doing generic baddy brags, he's also apparently unable to understand that telling people you're manipulating them might not be effective manipulation in this case."With a whisper, the Earth-Warder bent to my will."
Also, on this point:
Piggybacking off this, it's underexplored how the old gods are effectively the progenitors of the mortal races despite it being something that should be fairly known in the lore by now. If that, say, figured into the theology of the Twilight's Hammer, it would have made them a lot more compelling and interesting.
It's especially jarring because the current story is obviously going the direction of Freedom or Smth—dread it, run from it, it arrives all the same. With "Uhhhh Freedom I think" being increasingly important, it'd have been nice if CDev bothered to acknowledge it was the horrible interplanetary ticks that gave people said Freedom or Smth (well, at least until the frustratingly inevitable retcon it was Azeroth all alonge somehow).
Last edited by AOL Instant Messenger; 2025-12-05 at 08:14 PM.
smells fake... but
a new class is due for TLT as we did not got one in either TWW or MID, if we don't get one in TLT than that would be the longest time for a new class, surpassing the gap between demon hunter and evoker. Also, artificer is completely believable for a class.
New specs, we got one for Evoker later down the line, and a new one for demon hunter. So, i could see that blizz might continute that.
"Limit breaks" sound just like beefed up apex talents, so, plausible.
the zones, as we now have midnight, are somewhat believable as they joined Eversong and Ghostlands into one zone, and with the isle of fangs being barren, a zone like stormpeaks could just be the same.
All else: eh, nothing big here. But i feel it Chromatus is too obscure for WoW Devs to consider, they likely add their own OC dragon.