Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Nymrohd]

Baffles me slightly that the old world has all these known lore island locations such as Tel’abim, Balor, Zul’dare, Plunder Isle, Hiji etc but none of them have been been used yet for smaller patch content in favour of some of these OC islands such as the Siren Isle.

Sadly, I think it’s clear at this point a South Seas expansion is very sadly not to ever be the case. So I’m not sure why some of these haven’t been utilised in a patch sense yet over some of these OC islands we’ve gotten.

I suppose if we ever do get Kalimdor and southern EK revamps, Tel’abim and Plunder Isle could respectively fit into those. Though I wouldn’t ever rule out the possibility of Tel’abim being given the Zandalar treatment.

Khaz Algar could have been the Kezan expansion

[Joshuaj]

The WoW equivalent of DC's seven forces of the cosmos then would likely be the influences of the First Ones, which are represented VIA different entities (like the Titans, the Void Lords, etc).

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Khaz Algar could have been the Kezan expansion

Ehhh, I like the Earthen utilization more ngl

[LarryWithTheWeatherReport]

Larry, I don't think you understand what the First Ones actually represent. Assuming there is nothing above the First Ones (which, at the moment, we have no idea), then they're quite literally the Yog-Sothoth or TOAA or The Source of WoW. Heck, the heart of the pattern is basically the WoW equivalent of the Overvoid. Though, ofc, the Overvoid is all white (as it represents the blank canvas of all creation), while the heart of the pattern is encompassed by the Progenitors themselves.

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The WoW equivalent of the Hands would likely be the Automa, though the Automa appear to be greater in number, and maybe not as mighty in a lot of cases, as a lot of the creation things are done VIA forges and whatnot.

Sargeras is already the most powerful being ever by far besides Azeroth and maybe the First Ones and maybe Aman'Thul if he's a mega villain that planned everything out.

If Sargeras wins and gets Azeroth than he'll just wipe his ass with the First Ones. Hell he'll make them into the No Ones once he's done with them. He's already a transcendent so with Azeroth he'll be a mega transcendent.

The Titans in their prime would also come close as I'm 99% sure The Last Titan is going to expose the lies and agenda of the Titans and why they're so far above the other forces. And that's because Aman'Thul stole all the World Souls with his time powers preventing the other forces from getting world souls. The First Ones made all the Forces equal but The Titans upset the whole balance because of the cosmic thief Aman'Thul who snatch the world souls from the rest so all the Titans are world soul beings.

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Baffles me slightly that the old world has all these known lore island locations such as Tel’abim, Balor, Zul’dare, Plunder Isle, Hiji etc but none of them have been been used yet for smaller patch content in favour of some of these OC islands such as the Siren Isle.

Sadly, I think it’s clear at this point a South Seas expansion is very sadly not to ever be the case. So I’m not sure why some of these haven’t been utilised in a patch sense yet over some of these OC islands we’ve gotten.

I suppose if we ever do get Kalimdor and southern EK revamps, Tel’abim and Plunder Isle could respectively fit into those. Though I wouldn’t ever rule out the possibility of Tel’abim being given the Zandalar treatment.

Would welcome some of those ideas back and have a focus on Azeroth but with the exception of bringing Hakkar and Azshara back. Hakkar needs to rally the blood trolls and feed upon all the bloodshed in Nazmir and become a giant blood god that surrounds the entire zone. Same for Azshara when she returns with her Umbral Veil powers.

[Joshuaj]

Sargeras is already the most powerful being ever by far besides Azeroth and maybe the First Ones and maybe Aman'Thul if he's a mega villain that planned everything out.

If Sargeras wins and gets Azeroth than he'll just wipe his ass with the First Ones. Hell he'll make them into the No Ones once he's done with them. He's already a transcendent so with Azeroth he'll be a mega transcendent.

The Titans in their prime would also come close as I'm 99% sure The Last Titan is going to expose the lies and agenda of the Titans and why they're so far above the other forces. And that's because Aman'Thul stole all the World Souls with his time powers preventing the other forces from getting world souls. The First Ones made all the Forces equal but The Titans upset the whole balance because of the cosmic thief Aman'Thul who snatch the world souls from the rest so all the Titans are world soul beings.

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Would welcome some of those ideas back and have a focus on Azeroth but with the exception of bringing Hakkar and Azshara back. Hakkar needs to rally the blood trolls and feed upon all the bloodshed in Nazmir and become a giant blood god that surrounds the entire zone. Same for Azshara when she returns with her Umbral Veil powers.

You can't dismantle or break the First Ones. Not even Zovaal could do that, and he utilized the Machine of Origination to remake existence.

Even if you were able to break the First Ones, that would simply mean no cosmos whatsoever.

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Without the First Ones, there would be no pattern. No pattern = no workshops and no song of creation. No song of creation = no influences, and no influences = no dark beyond and no cosmic realms.

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All of this is assuming TLT doesn't retcon the First Ones ofc, which I hope it doesn't.

[LarryWithTheWeatherReport]

You can't dismantle or break the First Ones. Not even Zovaal could do that, and he utilized the Machine of Origination to remake existence.

Even if you were able to break the First Ones, that would simply mean no cosmos whatsoever.

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Without the First Ones, there would be no pattern. No pattern = no workshops and no song of creation. No song of creation = no influences, and no influences = no dark beyond and no cosmic realms.

That's because none of them was Sargeras, the First One ain't never mess with a badass like Sargeras before. He'll break the First Ones just like he did to the Prime Titans. And no pattern or whatever workshop, influences is going to stop Sargeras from his goal.

I'll be fine either way whether they retcon or not as I'm flexible like that.

[Santandame]

Khaz Algar could have been the Kezan expansion

Definitely. Could have had Undermine as a capital city, which it should have always been too. Undermine was a great patch regardless though.

[Khaza-R]

If Undermine was the capital of TWW and Silvermoon the capital of MN, you would of still had Horde whiners telling us its an Alliance expansion because these places became neutral.

[Joshuaj]

That's because none of them was Sargeras, the First One ain't never mess with a badass like Sargeras before. He'll break the First Ones just like he did to the Prime Titans. And no pattern or whatever workshop, influences is going to stop Sargeras from his goal.

I'll be fine either way whether they retcon or not as I'm flexible like that.

But Sargeras wants the universe to be remade after he's done destroying everything. He's not gonna try and destroy his creators, tf?

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And he's definitely not going to destroy the song of creation.

[LarryWithTheWeatherReport]

But Sargeras wants the universe to be remade after he's done destroying everything. He's not gonna try and destroy his creators, tf?

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And he's definitely not going to destroy the song of creation.

He's going to want the universe remade with him at the very top and no First Ones or Last Ones is going to stand in his way.

The song of creation ain't jack to him, he'll be the one singing it after taking over.

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If Undermine was the capital of TWW and Silvermoon the capital of MN, you would of still had Horde whiners telling us its an Alliance expansion because these places became neutral.

I'm glad we got Silvermoon but a Nerubian capital or Zul'Aman capital hub would be great choices too.

[Merryck]

Sargeras the Dark Titan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Time Father Aman'Thul >>>>Prime old god >>Umbral Veil Azshara >> Aegywnn>>Avatar of Sargeras >> End Game Xal'atath >>>>>>>>>>> Chaos Infused Grom Hellscream the Warcraft version of Horus in the Horus Hersey >>> Newborn Argus >>>> Dimensius > Zovaal >> Lich King > Lei Shen > Deathwing.

Thanks for remining me, I forgot Dimensius in my sig, I will update it now.

Lei Shen high diffs the Lich King. Pretty sure one of the writers actually confirmed this on Twitter.

[Limayria]

Lei Shen high diffs the Lich King. Pretty sure one of the writers actually confirmed this on Twitter.

im pretty sure deathwing is also above at least lich king and lei shen, considering deathwing was mere moments from destroying the world in dragon soul

also "raid group of 20 champions" needs to be in the top spot because nothing beats us

[LarryWithTheWeatherReport]

Lei Shen high diffs the Lich King. Pretty sure one of the writers actually confirmed this on Twitter.

That's one writer, maybe if it was stated in the good book or something. Or he's talking about Bolvar the Lich King since he already took over by the time of MoP. Or he meant beating him in a arm wrestling match.

Cause one hit is all it'll take for Arthas to take him on a one way trip to hell.

Now Bolvar would get his ass kicked for sure judging by his powers in the Shadowlands intro. I can see the Thunder King in his primes bringing down the storm on his ass.

But no chance against Arthas as he'll just instant freeze and shatter him before turning his whole Mogu empire into the living dead with one hit.

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im pretty sure deathwing is also above at least lich king and lei shen, considering deathwing was mere moments from destroying the world in dragon soul

also "raid group of 20 champions" needs to be in the top spot because nothing beats us

I'll put Deathwing several spots below Arthas since he's good as blowing things up when destroying the world pillar but in a actual fight, the Lich King has him beat. One hit and it's game over. And Malygos has him beat in the blowing things up department since MALYGOS can blow up Azeroth 10 times over according to his words so that would be far above the Reshi wraps of Karesh.

The reason why Deathwing was so annoying to fight was because he was a flying armored dragon so trying to do a focus fire on him would be difficult from all the flying around. We saw first hand how durable he was if he wasn't flying in Dragonflight during the alternate timeline where we fight a even thiccer version of Deathwing but one that couldn't fly and he got wasted in no time.

Deathwing is also a dragon that would go for a direct fight so the Lich king has to just wait and throw frostmourne at him for a one hit soul stealing kill.

[Joshuaj]

Lei Shen high diffs the Lich King. Pretty sure one of the writers actually confirmed this on Twitter.

Ehhh tbf here, that's Dave Kosak, and I don't much like taking a writer's word to heart unless it's either consistently stated, or the lore backs it up. While ik the lore hypes up Lei'Shen a ton, SL kinda upscale Frostmourne quite a bit.

[Alanar]

Ehhh, I like the Earthen utilization more ngl

Dang realy?

Would have loved to see a full blown version with Kezan being the island, with Kezan being fully exploreable. Undermine being its capitol of the expansion.

That is mostly, because there was concept art of a different route to get to Undermine and it was actually situated on Kezan. I always hated how you were allways suppose to be on Kezan, through that dungeon, with the goblin herritage and ofc Undermine. But we all know you are not really there and they are all seperate instances.

[LarryWithTheWeatherReport]

Ehhh tbf here, that's Dave Kosak, and I don't much like taking a writer's word to heart unless it's either consistently stated, or the lore backs it up. While ik the lore hypes up Lei'Shen a ton, SL kinda upscale Frostmourne quite a bit.

Amen.

Yeah if it was stated in the good book or in some game intro or game story summary that Lei Shen's powers is above him than yeah that would be 100% canon but one writer shouldn't count unless all the lore writers states the same thing in their own tweet or whatever.

[Joshuaj]

He's going to want the universe remade with him at the very top and no First Ones or Last Ones is going to stand in his way.

The song of creation ain't jack to him, he'll be the one singing it after taking over.

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I'm glad we got Silvermoon but a Nerubian capital or Zul'Aman capital hub would be great choices too.

He was going to make a dark Pantheon of Order. That would require Order and Disorder to exist fundamentally.

[LarryWithTheWeatherReport]

He was going to make a dark Pantheon of Order. That would require Order and Disorder to exist fundamentally.

That was pre Azeroth's World Soul.

Sargeras is 100% aiming higher once he actually gets Azeroth's World Soul. He will be all existence, all realities, all timelines, beyond the multiverse. It'll be his way or the highway.

[Joshuaj]

That was pre Azeroth's World Soul.

Sargeras is 100% aiming higher once he actually gets Azeroth's World Soul. He will be all existence, all realities, all timelines, beyond the multiverse. It'll be his way or the highway.

I mean, if he does end up wanting to destroy literally everything in TLT, I imagine he'll get humbled hard by the Champions wielding Azeroth's worldsoul power. Was thinking something akin to the Dimensius fight.

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Just realized how similar Endwalker is to the Worldsoul Saga

Threat that's built up at the start but is dealt with prematurely? Dimensius and Zodiark.

Facing off against a goth chick who wants a unique power capable of shaping reality? The Endsinger and Xal'atath.

Meeting with our Gods soon after and dealing with their stuff? The Titans + their conspiracy and the trials of the Twelve

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Makes me wonder if Avaloren is gonna end up being WoW's version of Dawntrail.

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Funny enough, Zodiark and Dimensius also have themes that say their names...

[Viridiel]

I think it would be really neat if Denathrius took over the Burning Legion, but the Primus snatched the Scourge out from underneath him. Demons are useful on a cosmic level, but the Scourge is the true prize when it comes to affecting Azeroth directly. Even better would be if the Primus were revealed, over time, to not be as friendly as he seems. He's a master strategist and has an entire wing of his military dedicated to deception, invented Domination magic and created the artifact that protects the Arbiter from it, and seems to have esoteric knowledge far beyond his remit. I could see Denathrius essentially abandoning Death in favour of his gluttony and greed, but the Primus absolutely seems the type to take control of all of Death (whatever that means) if it benefits his strategy. People seem broadly supportive of the Primus having been the true villain of the Shadowlands, so why not do it now?

The Last Titan would be a perfect time to kick this off. The seed has been planted for the titan conspiracy to involve the ordering of the Shadowlands, and we should find out whether that helped or hindered the Primus in his true goals.

(As for Denathrius, I really want him to have his soul transferred into Gorribal. If his thing is sentient swords, why not become the largest sentient sword in the universe? He can stab himself into planets and suck out their mana. The most abstract of vampires: a sentient syringe.)

[Sondrelk]

I think it would be really neat if Denathrius took over the Burning Legion, but the Primus snatched the Scourge out from underneath him. Demons are useful on a cosmic level, but the Scourge is the true prize when it comes to affecting Azeroth directly. Even better would be if the Primus were revealed, over time, to not be as friendly as he seems. He's a master strategist and has an entire wing of his military dedicated to deception, invented Domination magic and created the artifact that protects the Arbiter from it, and seems to have esoteric knowledge far beyond his remit. I could see Denathrius essentially abandoning Death in favour of his gluttony and greed, but the Primus absolutely seems the type to take control of all of Death (whatever that means) if it benefits his strategy. People seem broadly supportive of the Primus having been the true villain of the Shadowlands, so why not do it now?

The Last Titan would be a perfect time to kick this off. The seed has been planted for the titan conspiracy to involve the ordering of the Shadowlands, and we should find out whether that helped or hindered the Primus in his true goals.

(As for Denathrius, I really want him to have his soul transferred into Gorribal. If his thing is sentient swords, why not become the largest sentient sword in the universe? He can stab himself into planets and suck out their mana. The most abstract of vampires: a sentient syringe.)

Would be an interesting way to end TLT. The Titans real much of the truth of reality, including the Shadowlands. And we end the expansion with all the cosmic powers returning in some form with a new leader.