Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Joshuaj]

It's entirely possible the Champions of Azeroth were the thing Zovaal feared, and he didn't realize it til it was too late. Would explain why he repeated the words he said to the Primus before he fell.

[Viridiel]

I also think in regards to the sacred flame, prior to the current light infused sunwell for many high elves their faith would likely have been concentrated in the arcane; especially the elves who would have been with the Arathi on their expedition which probably plays a role

The idea seems to be that the Sacred Flame represents the Arcane magic of the elven magi and the Holy magic of the human priests, despite the story of Craishae saying that the Sacred Flame was just something that the arathi happened to discover in a hidden temple somewhere (although that story is presented with doubt so it might just be symbolic).

[Lady Atia]

Around next week we should get Roadmap. I guess Retail will be pretty straightforward - Midnight/small patches/12.1/Blizzcon. Would be nice to have more than 1 Remix during expansion, especially since there is only 1 Legion size left (BfA), other are either 3 tier (or smaller, looking at you WoD) or doesn't have much going on beside raids/dungeons (pre-MoP).

Classic could be more interesting, cause its time to reveal plans post MoP. One of possibilities (transfer to Retail) would bring huuuuge shitstorm about old FOMO items.

They initially said Housing would have it's own roadmap, so it will be interesting to see how that pans out. Right now it *feels* like the game is all about housing so they need to present something to get the hype for the other pillars running. Not some side shit like dAstArTly dUos or open world event number 346.

What I would like to see:

- More Mythic plus rewards, like elite transmogs for weapons and t sets
- Rated PvP Journey
- New bg's
- Shorter Remixes at the end of each season (or something like Plunderstorm again)
- Barber Shop profiles that you than can connect to your transmog sets
- Dyeable transmog going forward, but I guess that would be a TLT feature
- All transmog is now cosmetic

For Housing, I really want the Silvermoon Neighborhood and a variety of drinks/bottles. Light sources for the outside aswell as maaaybe slightly bigger front yards? Aswell as something to show off our transmogs (using the actual transmog ui) and weapons for the wall like they had in the hunters class hall. Oh, and the option to show off specific mounts (not just a random favourite like in garrisons) and pets at my home. Maybe npc's like bartenders (that you can also transmog? Maybe?).

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Oh, for classic .... the biggest reveal would be a revamp of how collections work. We already know from china that atleast the classic games will have shared collections going forward. But if they want to connect both retail and classic (would be huge, and how pokemon does it since ever, and it works there aswell), they would need a new fresh start classic (or maybe a season of legacy or something with an easier way to obtain things?) otherwise people will complain they missed out on FOMO stuff that was initially said to never connect to retail. Alternatively, maybe it's just an one way connection (so, classic games unlock stuff for retail, but not the other way round) and they add some of the classic fomo stuff like the MOP celestial mounts into future remixes.

[Nymrohd]

The Arathi don't really convince me as paragons of cosmic research. They couldn't even get some form of teleport beacon with them so their casters back home could contact them if things went south. Historically there have been many "authorities" supported by a religious state who only ever used pseudoscience

In other words, I think this is trash world building by spreadsheet with someone really excited to use combinatorics that I hope may well have been discarded by now as a concept. If you try to force power combinations you will only end up with completely artificial concepts that just won't feel right to anyone except our usual apophenic posters.

[Limayria]

The Arathi don't really convince me as paragons of cosmic research. They couldn't even get some form of teleport beacon with them so their casters back home could contact them if things went south. Historically there have been many "authorities" supported by a religious state who only ever used pseudoscience

In other words, I think this is trash world building by spreadsheet with someone really excited to use combinatorics that I hope may well have been discarded by now as a concept. If you try to force power combinations you will only end up with completely artificial concepts that just won't feel right to anyone except our usual apophenic posters.

Well tbf there's a very strong implication someone was intentionally killing the mages who knew how to get home, we also typical see even mages from dalaran needing a skilled mage to open a portal to a new place.

[Nymrohd]

Well tbf there's a very strong implication someone was intentionally killing the mages who knew how to get home, we also typical see even mages from dalaran needing a skilled mage to open a portal to a new place.

Occuleth or Jaina could open a portal through arcane turbulence. The Council of Six can teleport an entire city right next to a massive fel portal. And teleport beacons that help make portals easy are not a rare arcane tech for most of the civilizations of Azeroth. The Arathi either did not care (which helps with the idea that the Emperor just got rid of political opponents with the Renilash scheme) or more simply, aren't as good. Not to mention they clearly did not have that many arcane spellcasters if only one survived.

And again, it is such a bad way to do world building.

[Darkarath]

I don't want to offend anyone but damn, how tired I am of all the cosmic shit. The debates about these forces are so incredibly boring. Cannot wait to be done with the WSS and hopefully return to more terrenal problems.

I'm fully aware of the many problems that BfA had, but discussing the story of that expansion (even if Blizzard did a terrible job with it) was so much more engaging than current lore.

Anyway, 2026 Roadmap this week or the next one? I'm guessing that it will cover until 12.1.5, maaaybe 12.1.7 too but very unlikely. I bet that Blizzard will put something cool there to keep the hype.

[Sondrelk]

- More Mythic plus rewards, like elite transmogs for weapons and t sets

They could easily make the Elite PvP set a more generic "Elite" set, and give it from several sources. If they don't want to make it earnable after the season ends like they should, then they could at least make it easier to get for players who don't enjoy PvP.

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Occuleth or Jaina could open a portal through arcane turbulence. The Council of Six can teleport an entire city right next to a massive fel portal. And teleport beacons that help make portals easy are not a rare arcane tech for most of the civilizations of Azeroth. The Arathi either did not care (which helps with the idea that the Emperor just got rid of political opponents with the Renilash scheme) or more simply, aren't as good. Not to mention they clearly did not have that many arcane spellcasters if only one survived.

And again, it is such a bad way to do world building.

They might have had several. Remember, the entire expedition was very close to dying out completely before they got teleported into Hallowfall.

Now, why only one apprentice mage survived is more of a question. But that could easily just be dramatic convenience. Unlucky stuff does happen.

[Nymrohd]

They might have had several. Remember, the entire expedition was very close to dying out completely before they got teleported into Hallowfall.

Now, why only one apprentice mage survived is more of a question. But that could easily just be dramatic convenience. Unlucky stuff does happen.

I mean it clearly is dramatic convenience but it is also a choice to depict the Arathi as less focused on the Arcane. They could have had mages and just not be good at telemancy or explain that the distance just makes it impossible for them to establish teleportation with the Empire. But the Arathi have very specific and fairly limited archetypes in TWW

[Jaggler]

I don't want to offend anyone but damn, how tired I am of all the cosmic shit. The debates about these forces are so incredibly boring. Cannot wait to be done with the WSS and hopefully return to more terrenal problems.

I'm fully aware of the many problems that BfA had, but discussing the story of that expansion (even if Blizzard did a terrible job with it) was so much more engaging than current lore.

Anyway, 2026 Roadmap this week or the next one? I'm guessing that it will cover until 12.1.5, maaaybe 12.1.7 too but very unlikely. I bet that Blizzard will put something cool there to keep the hype.

Yeah, i know it will stay relevant throughout Midnight and TLT, but I hope we can do some more grounded stuff after we are done with the WSS and the cosmic stuff can take a back seat.

I don't mind the 6 (7?) forces in concept, but I think it works way better in the background.

[GeometryWizard]

I don't want to offend anyone but damn, how tired I am of all the cosmic shit. The debates about these forces are so incredibly boring. Cannot wait to be done with the WSS and hopefully return to more terrenal problems.

I'm fully aware of the many problems that BfA had, but discussing the story of that expansion (even if Blizzard did a terrible job with it) was so much more engaging than current lore.

Anyway, 2026 Roadmap this week or the next one? I'm guessing that it will cover until 12.1.5, maaaybe 12.1.7 too but very unlikely. I bet that Blizzard will put something cool there to keep the hype.

There's nothing to return to now because they've totally sanded down the world and made it a one-dimensional peacefest where every character and race have the exact same personality and belief of an aggressively lame loser. We just got the perfect example of that with the Eitrigg voicelines they added to beta

https://bsky.app/profile/portergauge.../3m7je34rgb223

"Go with honor...and mercy"
"Strength, peace, and honor"

This is the type of character that the writers unironically think is interesting and cool now in the span of a few years they've completely annihilated Warcraft's identity. The stupid cosmic force nonsense that's just become colors fighting each other is just a distraction from how after Bfa they've totally stripped apart everything identifiable about WoW's setting and made it this fantasy hugbox where you can predict every character's lines to be some variation of "Peace and friendship watch over you, friend". You can't tell any interesting stories or build any interesting worlds with these characters which is the worst part that they made Warcraft one of the most uncool and boring fantasy IPs out there and all for nothing because the modern stories they tell are just as nonsensical and stupid as the rule of cool ones

They have no choice but to keep doing cosmic slop because there is nothing interesting to return to in more grounded stories and they're the ones responsible for it so they have no interest in building it up again. I bet some people on the team are proposing they just stop doing stories altogether after TLT and just make bronze dragonflight time travel stories for PvEers so it doesn't disrupt the cozycore housing vibes they clearly prioritize

[Lady Atia]

They could easily make the Elite PvP set a more generic "Elite" set, and give it from several sources. If they don't want to make it earnable after the season ends like they should, then they could at least make it easier to get for players who don't enjoy PvP.

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They might have had several. Remember, the entire expedition was very close to dying out completely before they got teleported into Hallowfall.

Now, why only one apprentice mage survived is more of a question. But that could easily just be dramatic convenience. Unlucky stuff does happen.

I mean, having rewards that only come from pvp is fine, but they for sure should add an option to grind past rewards via rated pvp after 2 expansions, similiar to Mythic mounts.

And give M+ it's own seasonal rewards that can be farmed during a remix a few years later.

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There's nothing to return to now because they've totally sanded down the world and made it a one-dimensional peacefest where every character and race have the exact same personality and belief of an aggressively lame loser. We just got the perfect example of that with the Eitrigg voicelines they added to beta

https://bsky.app/profile/portergauge.../3m7je34rgb223

"Go with honor...and mercy"
"Strength, peace, and honor"

This is the type of character that the writers unironically think is interesting and cool now in the span of a few years they've completely annihilated Warcraft's identity. The stupid cosmic force nonsense that's just become colors fighting each other is just a distraction from how after Bfa they've totally stripped apart everything identifiable about WoW's setting and made it this fantasy hugbox where you can predict every character's lines to be some variation of "Peace and friendship watch over you, friend". You can't tell any interesting stories or build any interesting worlds with these characters which is the worst part that they made Warcraft one of the most uncool and boring fantasy IPs out there and all for nothing because the modern stories they tell are just as nonsensical and stupid as the rule of cool ones

They have no choice but to keep doing cosmic slop because there is nothing interesting to return to in more grounded stories and they're the ones responsible for it so they have no interest in building it up again. I bet some people on the team are proposing they just stop doing stories altogether after TLT and just make bronze dragonflight time travel stories for PvEers so it doesn't disrupt the cozycore housing vibes they clearly prioritize

I mean, the original quotes are a bit too close to right wing speech, so it's kinda weird it took them so long to add something to tune them down.

[Cheezits]

I just recently started getting into rated PVP and it's insane that some amazing, thematic weapon illusions like Sacred Fire and Arcane are locked behind seasonal PVP. There's also some amazing canon-tied elite pvp tints, like the paladin elite tier this season that 1:1 matches the new Blood Knight colors they are using in Midnight (muted red and black). Also really good tints for the Warfront (Elaborate) armors from BFA.

They should add some kind of token that you can get once per season- maybe instead of a season's elite set or illusion? Like you can choose that instead, and then select a single old mog or illusion.

[Jaggler]

There's nothing to return to now because they've totally sanded down the world and made it a one-dimensional peacefest where every character and race have the exact same personality and belief of an aggressively lame loser. We just got the perfect example of that with the Eitrigg voicelines they added to beta

https://bsky.app/profile/portergauge.../3m7je34rgb223

"Go with honor...and mercy"
"Strength, peace, and honor"

This is the type of character that the writers unironically think is interesting and cool now in the span of a few years they've completely annihilated Warcraft's identity. The stupid cosmic force nonsense that's just become colors fighting each other is just a distraction from how after Bfa they've totally stripped apart everything identifiable about WoW's setting and made it this fantasy hugbox where you can predict every character's lines to be some variation of "Peace and friendship watch over you, friend". You can't tell any interesting stories or build any interesting worlds with these characters which is the worst part that they made Warcraft one of the most uncool and boring fantasy IPs out there and all for nothing because the modern stories they tell are just as nonsensical and stupid as the rule of cool ones

They have no choice but to keep doing cosmic slop because there is nothing interesting to return to in more grounded stories and they're the ones responsible for it so they have no interest in building it up again. I bet some people on the team are proposing they just stop doing stories altogether after TLT and just make bronze dragonflight time travel stories for PvEers so it doesn't disrupt the cozycore housing vibes they clearly prioritize

You're crying about a pretty consistent characterization of Eitrigg for basically all of WoW.

[Cheezits]

You're crying about a pretty consistent characterization of Eitrigg for basically all of WoW.

Yeah, Eitrigg has always been the Nice Orc That Isn't Thrall, I'm not sure what people are expecting of him. People should ask for more (male) orc characters instead of complaining that Eitrigg is Eitrigging.

[Lady Atia]

I just recently started getting into rated PVP and it's insane that some amazing, thematic weapon illusions like Sacred Fire and Arcane are locked behind seasonal PVP. There's also some amazing canon-tied elite pvp tints, like the paladin elite tier this season that 1:1 matches the new Blood Knight colors they are using in Midnight (muted red and black). Also really good tints for the Warfront (Elaborate) armors from BFA.

They should add some kind of token that you can get once per season- maybe instead of a season's elite set or illusion? Like you can choose that instead, and then select a single old mog or illusion.

Seasonal PVP renown that gives you one token per season per bnet account, only usable for stuff that's older than 2 expansions so people have still some prestige - also you can't catch up that way. One token for old sets, one for illusions and one for mounts.

[GeometryWizard]

You're crying about a pretty consistent characterization of Eitrigg for basically all of WoW.

If you asked me to identify who those lines were from with no context I could guess it's from any 95% of the current cast. Let's go ahead and take the strength part of the quote out too because that might hurt someone's feelings

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Every time you guys go "Oh but that just makes sense for that character!" when they either act like a lobotomized senior citizen that just wants to retire and drink tea or a whiny 10 year old that hates adults and don't realize you say it for every single character in the game

[Lady Atia]

If you asked me to identify who those lines were from with no context I could guess it's from any 95% of the current cast. Let's go ahead and take the strength part of the quote out too because that might hurt someone's feelings

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Every time you guys go "Oh but that just makes sense for that character!" when they act like a lobotomized senior citizen that just wants to retire and drink tea and don't realize you say it for every single character in the game

Maybe .... wow just isn't your game? It never was grimdark to begin with anyways.

[Cheezits]

Every time you guys go "Oh but that just makes sense for that character!" when they act like a lobotomized senior citizen that just wants to retire and drink tea and don't realize you say it for every single character in the game

This thread is straight up Groundhog Day. Yes, modern american live service game plays softball with cozycore bullshit because it's less controversial and more marketable to a general audience. It sucks and there is nothing we can do about it except unsubscribe. Anything else?

I petition that this thread gets locked a certain amount of time after a patch is datamined because once everything is discussed it turns into a dumping ground with little to do with speculation. You have every other thread.

[GeometryWizard]

This thread is straight up Groundhog Day. Yes, modern american live service game plays softball with cozycore bullshit because it's less controversial and more marketable to a general audience. It sucks and there is nothing we can do about it except unsubscribe. Anything else?

More marketable how? A lot of the big IPs right now are all much more mature and darker than WoW. Even in the fantasy realm specifically Baldur's Gate and Witcher are much darker and less kiddycore than modern WoW. Mainstream audiences don't want to be treated like 4 year olds watching Dora the Explorer. There's a reason why story discussion has died down so much that the only diehards left are the ones addicted to cosmic force slop or Portergauge praising every single questline and story beat he sees