Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Cheezits]

Slightly unrelated but I am still disappointed that blizzard went with the Nerubians instead of qiraji - you know the ones that actually had humanoid forms to begin with and were in closer proximity to Khaz Algar.

It's a combination of Nerubians being more popular, Nerubians being able to be reused for TLT, and probably hesitation to use the Qiraji as their humanoid forms are questionably stereotypically Arabic. Though they did a decent enough job cleaning up the centaur in DF and they can and should do that with the Qiraji.

The qiraji women would 100% get a total rehaul. But the actual bugs + twin emperors are fine.

https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th/id/OIP.f...tMain&o=7&rm=3

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Also, I missed the conversation, but Voidstorm/Voidspire being done at launch is far more interesting than beat-for-beat Legion 2, as is the patch being (at least partially) Ula'tek of all things. Now, of course surprising things can be done poorly (Sylvanas leaving BFA, K'aresh gameplay) but I think it's wayyyy more interesting than if we did beat for beat Purple Legion which seems to have been the desire for some people.

Actually going back to the Worldcore so soon is fun and Ula'tek shows that it may be an interesting journey to get there. And it opens up TLT to be far more interesting than the obvious "we fight Aman'thul at the World Soul" finale if the Worldcore is in fact 12.2 instead.

I am aware we may not really get any Lordaeron content, but I'll actually be disappointed if there isn't any Stratholme, as the set up is geographically there with the connection between it and Silverwing Refuge. And the High Elves REALLY need a patch after the events of launch.

[Joshuaj]

There is a build, but they ran into problems apparently so the servers are still offline. should come up sometime today.

I saw, don't worry. Makes me wonder what's in this build. Hoping for Belf and Nelf exteriors.

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And MAYBE House Sizes as well? They literally hinted at it coming soon, with it being part of the renown track past 6 and everything.

[Cheezits]

And MAYBE House Sizes as well? They literally hinted at it coming soon, with it being part of the renown track past 6 and everything.

Housing sizes are going to be funny because so many people have worked hard on their small-size houses.

[Joshuaj]

Housing sizes are going to be funny because so many people have worked hard on their small-size houses.

I mean, true. But they're basically just optional for folks that want to make their houses bigger (Basically housings version of transmogrification), and let's be honest, a lot of players are simply working with what they got rn lol.

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I don't really think it's hard to remold your exterior layout either. A bit time consuming? Sure. But that's part of the fun imo.

[Nymrohd]

Housing sizes are going to be funny because so many people have worked hard on their small-size houses.

I think most people who are into Housing see it as a constant project. Every patch and expansion will be adding more content and we will all be moving things around.

[SaintBigfoot]

So I might be stupid, but how do you even *up* the housing renown tracks

[Cheezits]

So I might be stupid, but how do you even *up* the housing renown tracks

The only way right now is to collect furniture items for the first time. When Midnight launches, neighborhood endeavor activities will rank it up as well.

Considering how expensive furniture items are right now on AH I think the way to go is just get all the rep/quest furniture and call it a day.

[Joshuaj]

Endeavors will likely help the increase by a TON.

[Nymrohd]

The only way right now is to collect furniture items for the first time. When Midnight launches, neighborhood endeavor activities will rank it up as well.

Considering how expensive furniture items are right now on AH I think the way to go is just get all the rep/quest furniture and call it a day.

If you've played the game consistently, just grabbing the items that will be available for you in the vendors should be enough to get you well into level 5 without buy craftable items from the AH.

[Sondrelk]

Speaking of future housing stuff. I wonder if we will get to save specific house layouts. Would be nice for people who want to try out something new without needing to delete the old house.

Would make perfect sense for a heavy gold sink. Not at all necessary for players who just want their house as a place to put their trophies. But very nice for people who like trying out new stuff.

[Vakir]

So? We've seen plenty of beings on her level go loopy over the years. That's not a meaningful argument for anything. And delusion isn't incompetence.


But at the same time that makes it i highly questionable if their input on the matter can even be trusted in the first place. It doesn't support your point. It makes Metzen a poor source.

There's usually a context when characters of that level go that way. This is essentially our first introduction to that character and there is such a massive disconnect between what she's saying and what we're seeing that if you were to have it be some random sudden delusion, WoW tends to acknowledge this directly through conservation of narrative. When we've had cosmic beings who have "gone mad" or some other flavor of that, the materials and characters surrounding it cannot shut the fuck up in pointing it out.

Considering someone in this thread misread it wildly as Xe'ra and Illidan having parallels in their moralistic perspectives rather than it being the delusions of one and the power seeking of the other, plus many more just dismissing the questline as comical, I'd say if you're correct, it's extremely poorly communicated. She's not delusional about seemingly anything else other than her judgment surrounding this.

Also, "why?" What does this add? Xe'ra being delusional wouldn't change the rejection of her gift and doesn't elevate the interaction at all. There's no, for example, foil character to Xe'ra to argue against his actions. It's literally just something you're inventing to explain the disconnect away.

You're also not really addressing how wrong you are about an individual point before moving to the next. You were rightly called on how poorly you judged basic social cues and tone of voice by his alleged remorse and just kept on going despite that it calls into question your literacy on a lot of this. And you're asking me how recently I played this questline?

Re: Metzen, that's pants on head reasoning. Someone can be a poor source and still have power and influence. That's my entire point. WoW's writing team from the top down tends to be pretty bad with consistency. With Metzen, being a bad source didn't stop the retcon of the Draenei from being his idea. It didn't stop him from being the one to apology post about it when people were upset (and used said post to shill getting your copy of Rise of the Horde, naturally). Him being a bad source didn't stop that him thinking Falstaad was dead required correcting to change an NPC. We literally saw this happen in real time, famously. He has influence even when he isn't the lead narrative designer.

[Raetary]

Housing sizes are going to be funny because so many people have worked hard on their small-size houses.

Not really.

Most people who have spent a lot of effort decorating are probably looking forward to it and belong to the part of the playerbase that will routinely redecorate whenever a patch adds new sets of decor.

[Nymrohd]

Speaking of future housing stuff. I wonder if we will get to save specific house layouts. Would be nice for people who want to try out something new without needing to delete the old house.

Would make perfect sense for a heavy gold sink. Not at all necessary for players who just want their house as a place to put their trophies. But very nice for people who like trying out new stuff.

I'd love to be able to save a block of items so that they keep their spatial relation to each other and then be able to place them as one item later on.

[Sondrelk]

I'd love to be able to save a block of items so that they keep their spatial relation to each other and then be able to place them as one item later on.

That as well. Or at the very least, save basic settings, like what size something should be. Could even be something as simple as a toggle that keeps the size of the previous version of the same item you have interracted with.

[huth]

There's usually a context when characters of that level go that way. This is essentially our first introduction to that character and there is such a massive disconnect between what she's saying and what we're seeing that if you were to have it be some random sudden delusion, WoW tends to acknowledge this directly through conservation of narrative. When we've had cosmic beings who have "gone mad" or some other flavor of that, the materials and characters surrounding it cannot shut the fuck up in pointing it out.

Considering someone in this thread misread it wildly as Xe'ra and Illidan having parallels in their moralistic perspectives rather than it being the delusions of one and the power seeking of the other, plus many more just dismissing the questline as comical, I'd say if you're correct, it's extremely poorly communicated. She's not delusional about seemingly anything else other than her judgment surrounding this.

So your argument is that it is unlikely because they wrote it properly for once?

And people being delusional about specific topics they're highly invested in but rational otherwise is far from unusual. That's not an argument against it.

As for why, Velen. Xe'ra is there to show him that the Light is more flawed than he thought previously.

Also, the social cues are not the same in other languages, which suggests they aren't actually part of the script.

Re: Metzen, that's pants on head reasoning. Someone can be a poor source and still have power and influence. That's my entire point. WoW's writing team from the top down tends to be pretty bad with consistency. With Metzen, being a bad source didn't stop the retcon of the Draenei from being his idea. It didn't stop him from being the one to apology post about it when people were upset (and used said post to shill getting your copy of Rise of the Horde, naturally). Him being a bad source didn't stop that him thinking Falstaad was dead required correcting to change an NPC. We literally saw this happen in real time, famously. He has influence even when he isn't the lead narrative designer.

Well duh. Him being a bad source is the cause of those issues. Of course it didn't stop that. The point is that he cannot be relied on for accurate information because he frequently misremembers even major plot points.

[Count Zero]

I'd love to be able to save a block of items so that they keep their spatial relation to each other and then be able to place them as one item later on.

Fantastic idea, probably will be something done with addons long before Blizz ever implements it (if ever). Like how I think I saw there's an addon for saving housing layouts already?

[Vakir]

So your argument is that it is unlikely because they wrote it properly for once?

Negative. I'm saying, accurately or inaccurately, that they never leave these things unclear or uncertain. If the intention was that Xe'ra was deluded, we'd have a token character at the time saying "boy, that Xe'ra sure seems like she's off base on that one, what we just witnessed didn't even remotely resemble her take on it." Main story beats in Blizzard games have the subtlety of The Unstoppable Force.

And people being delusional about specific topics they're highly invested in but rational otherwise is far from unusual. That's not an argument against it.

It is when they're a higher order divine entity. When we have characters of this age and stock that have been around since the ordering of the universe, we typically have actual context given to why they act the way they do. For Sargeras, we were given no less than 3 changing motivations - in the WC3 game manual, nihilism as the result of eons of fighting untold evil across the cosmos. Then it was the whole Void Titan thing. And now it's some combination of wanting Azeroth as some sort of prize plus whatever anti-Titan thing they inevitably concoct for TLT.

Xe'ra has, I guess, a prophecy...? Who wrote this prophecy? Why did they write it? Did it predate Illidan's birth? Were they made aware of it much later? Was Xe'ra's delusion immediate or was it developed over time? Who else is aware of this? Seemingly nobody? Why?

All this and more that was never even asked before it was destroyed with eye lasers and shoved into a borrowed power furnace, almost as if it was a bad story beat that they abandoned by having the impulsive anti-hero-villain be the impulsive anti-hero-villain people like, rather than turning them into a chosen one light angel.

Fortunately, no other franchise from Blizzard would precede it by a couple of years doing the same fucking thing to a character to cap off a trilogy. Surely if something this insane happened, it might be evidence that they perhaps had terrible plans. But of course not, no beloved RTS series ended that way.

As for why, Velen. Xe'ra is there to show him that the Light is more flawed than he thought previously.

...Velen's entire arc on Argus was opposing fate and prophecy, not the Light.

Hey, remember when we killed his son? Remember when he said immediately after this that "the Light died here today," but then he's back in it and helps us against Kil'jaeden and decides to stop running? And then he gives him grace in his final moments despite him being arguably the most personal antagonist in the Legion? The guy who already had his uncertainty in the Light addressed and reestablished his faith and his personal conviction?

That Velen? The one that explicitly says that things weren't in "fate's hands" at the end as an echo of what Illidan said when he nuked Xe'ra?

Meanwhile, Illidan's "nothing personnel, kid" smirk at believing the Army of the Light was not coming when we get to Argus is immediately shut down when they show up and we need them. This time, he was wrong. That's why he's significantly more respectful and less smug at the end when Velen repeats the message about fate, not the Light, back to him. Hilariously, his next line is "Light be with you."

This stuff is for preteens and you're still bad at it.

Also, the social cues are not the same in other languages, which suggests they aren't actually part of the script.

That's not how localization works in a billion dollar game.

And even if it did, that means that either the voice director succeeded at seemingly every other performance but one in an expansion that did great with them, or Liam fucking O'Brien isn't good at conveying remorse, uncertainty, or empathy.

The mental gymnastics here.

Well duh. Him being a bad source is the cause of those issues. Of course it didn't stop that. The point is that he cannot be relied on for accurate information because he frequently misremembers even major plot points.

We aren't talking about accuracy after the fact, though. We're talking about accuracy or competency of an intended direction beforehand.

Is it that crazy that of an idea that a guy who fails to understand his own characters and history constantly said "people want a redemption story," attempted to craft one, it was poorly received, and they walked it back? All of that has nothing to do with whether he's a competent source retroactively or not.

[justwatching]

Slightly offtopic but whats going on in the D4 community right now reminds me so much of the Ethereal shit.

[Vakir]

Slightly offtopic but whats going on in the D4 community right now reminds me so much of the Ethereal shit.

What's up? Are people tinfoil hatting Paladins based on some pre-TGA stuff?

Even though they'd be insane not to drop them next. Or perhaps some holy fire cleric.

[Dracullus]

What's up? Are people tinfoil hatting Paladins based on some pre-TGA stuff?

Even though they'd be insane not to drop them next. Or perhaps some holy fire cleric.

Expac reveal is certain, Paladin very very likely. People thinking it drops tonight with new season is delusional part.